Was $150 million deal with Parmount/Dreamworks the best idea?? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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First of all, I will admit, this was a big blow for the BDA. I personally didn't see anything like this coming. But while we are at it. Was this the best way to spend $150 million dollars?


All the hd dvd fans have said that a sub $200 player will win the war. You could have had your sub $200 player. You could have sold 750,000 A2's at $99 bucks each. Or 1.5 million players at $199. Thats not even a cheap chinese player. I bet wal mart would have purchased everyone of those players in a day.

Software, you could have gone to blockbuster and put 5 copies of every hd dvd title available in each of their 2000 stores. You still would have had 75 million left over to subsidize software at amazon, best buy and circuit city. They could have sold 10,000,000 hd dvd's for $12.99 and made a higher percentage margin. I bet all of those retailers would have jumped on that.


IMHO, I think the money could have been put to better use. Those titles were going to be released on hd dvd anyway. Why pay for it???

I am not trying to spin this. It is a BIG deal that this happened. I personally wanted quite a few titles from Paramount/Dreamworks and I would have wanted them on Blu Ray.

I just want to know why the HD DVD forum felt this was the best place to spend the cash????


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post #2 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

First of all, I will admit, this was a big blow for the BDA. I personally didn't see anything like this coming. But while we are at it. Was this the best way to spend $150 million dollars?


All the hd dvd fans have said that a sub $200 player will win the war. You could have had your sub $200 player. You could have sold 750,000 A2's at $99 bucks each. Or 1.5 million players at $199. Thats not evern a cheap chinese player. I bet wal mart would have purchased everyone of those players in a day.

Software, you could have gone to blockbuster and put 5 copies of every hd dvd title available in each of their 2000 stores. You still would have had 75 million left over to subsidize software at amazon, best buy and circuit city. They could have sold 10,000,000 hd dvd's for $12.99 and made a higher percentage margin. I bet all of those retailers would have jumped on that.


IMHO, I think the money could have been put to better use. Those titles were going to be released on hd dvd anyway. Why pay for it???

I am not trying to spin this. It is a BIG deal that this happened. I personally wanted quite a few titles from Paramount/Dreamworks and I would have wanted them on Blu Ray.

I just want to know why??

I bet they want you as a main bookkeeper.

Not sure where the online app is.

In case you didn't know studios are quite good in counting the money. Well, some of them. Those which weren't are long gone.

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post #3 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, I really didn't understand your point.


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post #4 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Sorry, I really didn't understand your point.

My point was they (P/DW) had a perfect idea where to put the money.

We poor souls cannot judge their "financial" decision unless we have a VERY successful business and much better bookkeeping system than they have.

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post #5 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

First of all, I will admit, this was a big blow for the BDA. I personally didn't see anything like this coming. But while we are at it. Was this the best way to spend $150 million dollars?


All the hd dvd fans have said that a sub $200 player will win the war. You could have had your sub $200 player. You could have sold 750,000 A2's at $99 bucks each. Or 1.5 million players at $199. Thats not even a cheap chinese player. I bet wal mart would have purchased everyone of those players in a day.

Software, you could have gone to blockbuster and put 5 copies of every hd dvd title available in each of their 2000 stores. You still would have had 75 million left over to subsidize software at amazon, best buy and circuit city. They could have sold 10,000,000 hd dvd's for $12.99 and made a higher percentage margin. I bet all of those retailers would have jumped on that.


IMHO, I think the money could have been put to better use. Those titles were going to be released on hd dvd anyway. Why pay for it???

I am not trying to spin this. It is a BIG deal that this happened. I personally wanted quite a few titles from Paramount/Dreamworks and I would have wanted them on Blu Ray.

I just want to know why??

I agree with your point. However this was a last ditch effort to squelch the 2:1 software sales lead ratio that keeps getting worse for HD-DVD. All the pre-orders for Paramounts upcoming movie's were doing way way better as usual for Blu-Ray. They were able to eliminate all those potential sales at a loss in multiple ways against Blu-Ray. This is truly anti-consumer, but they had no choice since they were losing very badly anyways..
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post #6 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

First of all, I will admit, this was a big blow for the BDA. I personally didn't see anything like this coming. But while we are at it. Was this the best way to spend $150 million dollars?


All the hd dvd fans have said that a sub $200 player will win the war. You could have had your sub $200 player. You could have sold 750,000 A2's at $99 bucks each. Or 1.5 million players at $199. Thats not even a cheap chinese player. I bet wal mart would have purchased everyone of those players in a day.

Software, you could have gone to blockbuster and put 5 copies of every hd dvd title available in each of their 2000 stores. You still would have had 75 million left over to subsidize software at amazon, best buy and circuit city. They could have sold 10,000,000 hd dvd's for $12.99 and made a higher percentage margin. I bet all of those retailers would have jumped on that.


IMHO, I think the money could have been put to better use. Those titles were going to be released on hd dvd anyway. Why pay for it???

I am not trying to spin this. It is a BIG deal that this happened. I personally wanted quite a few titles from Paramount/Dreamworks and I would have wanted them on Blu Ray.

I just want to know why??

Excellent points and raises the question. Did they REALLY pay $150 million?

The articles coming out with so called "unnamed insiders" confirming the deals etc etc.

I simply don't see $150 million being paid for this no matter what, especially knowing that the first news of this came from BD propaganda machine.


Hey you know what the bottom line is, if Sony spent pretty much almost 6 billion dollars pushing Blu-Ray not including the loss they bite on PS3 then I would say $150 mill. is change.
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post #7 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by galileo2000 View Post

My point was they (P/DW) had a perfect idea where to put the money.

I guess I didn't make my point. From a P/DW point of view, it is very smart. They would never make 150 million in the next 18 months off any blu ray or hd dvd. Impossible.

My point was is this the best possible money spent by the HD DVD forum?


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post #8 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nfinity View Post

Excellent points and raises the question. Did they REALLY pay $150 million?

The articles coming out with so called "unnamed insiders" confirming the deals etc etc.

I simply don't see $150 million being paid for this no matter what, especially knowing that the first news of this came from BD propaganda machine.


Hey you know what the bottom line is, if Sony spent pretty much almost 6 billion dollars pushing Blu-Ray not including the loss they bite on PS3 then I would say $150 mill. is change.

it could have been for a percentage of the technology rights. Estimated at $100 million plus cash. I don't know. I am not on the board, but it does appear to be a lot of money for an exclusive studio.

the best selling hd disce is 300 right? sold maybe 400,000 copies (being generous) of which 300,000 would have been blu ray. Even if warner is making $7 per disc, which is probably high, they are only clearing 2.1 million. Now take 75 movies like that and you break even.

I assumed that the studios that were exclusive were probably given lower usage fees and preferential advertising rights. I really didn't think that obscene amounts of money were being thrown around. I guess I was wrong.

I agree that it is a drop of water in the bucket of losses on Sony's side.


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post #9 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:20 PM
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Well, perhaps they didnt do it for the $$$....$150 million that is.


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post #10 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post

I agree with your point. However this was a last ditch effort to squelch the 2:1 software sales lead ratio that keeps getting worse for HD-DVD. All the pre-orders for Paramounts upcoming movie's were doing way way better as usual for Blu-Ray. They were able to eliminate all those potential sales at a loss in multiple ways against Blu-Ray. This is truly anti-consumer, but they had no choice since they were losing very badly anyways..

At first i thought more 'Sour Grapes', but now i'm thinking its something else as you keep posting the same garbage over & over in every thread you post in.
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post #11 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by marka1620 View Post

Well, perhaps they didnt do it for the $$$....$150 million that is.

And they did it for what. That line of BS from the CTO of paramount. That sounded like it was written weeks ago by the dvd forum. He knows less about the formats than anyone on this forum.

Anyone that actually thinks he said that doesn't know how a corporation works.


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post #12 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

And they did it for what. That line of BS from the CTO of paramount. That sounded like it was written weeks ago by the dvd forum. He knows less about the formats than anyone on this forum.

Anyone that actually thinks he said that doesn't know how a corporation works.

Perhaps the reasons he stated....is that at ALL possible?

The man attained his current position for a reason. I'm sure he knows a little something about the format.

$150 million is just speculation at this point in time. Just like the earlier post that it was an 18 month contract only. Only Paramount knows the reasons why. I'm sure they are looking long term......beyond 18 months.


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post #13 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by marka1620 View Post

Perhaps the reasons he stated....is that at ALL possible?

The man attained his current position for a reason. I'm sure he knows a little something about the format.

Do you think he can say ANYTHING without having some public relations person at his side? A publicly traded company like that has to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. I bet you know a lot more about blu ray and hd dvd than he ever could hope to.

And he probably attained that position by being a cut throat business person. Promotions are not all ways for the best employees. Just the ones that appear to be doing the best.


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post #14 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by marka1620 View Post

Perhaps the reasons he stated....is that at ALL possible?

The man attained his current position for a reason. I'm sure he knows a little something about the format.

Because we've learned over the past decade that if anyone can be trusted to speak the whole truth, it's the corporations. No one in a position of power has ever lied to us or distorted the truth.
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post #15 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Or politicians. That is way to funny.

"major combat operations have ceased in Iraq"


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post #16 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Do you think he can say ANYTHING without having some public relations person at his side? A publicly traded company like that has to dot all the i's and cross all the t's. I bet you know a lot more about blu ray and hd dvd than he ever could hope to.

So BDA affiliated execs who wax poetic about capacity and bandwidth advantages are presenting a cogent argument based upon earnestly held beliefs, but those on the other side are slinging pure PR shite, and it's all about the money? Can you say: cognitive dissonance?
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post #17 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:47 PM
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I guess I didn't make my point. From a P/DW point of view, it is very smart. They would never make 150 million in the next 18 months off any blu ray or hd dvd. Impossible.

My point was is this the best possible money spent by the HD DVD forum?

Black Monday (TM) will always be remembered as the day the first neutral studio dropped one of the formats, you bet your a** it was worth every single penny.
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post #18 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

And they did it for what. That line of BS from the CTO of paramount. That sounded like it was written weeks ago by the dvd forum. He knows less about the formats than anyone on this forum.

Anyone that actually thinks he said that doesn't know how a corporation works.

Let's see....

He is the CTO of a major corporation and an engineer with a very impressive resume according to the bio posted in the insiders thread.

You (and I for that matter) are an anonymous weenie posting on a forum because you are unhappy about the decision he made.

Pardon me if I give his interview more weight than your speculations.
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post #19 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rto View Post

So BDA affiliated execs who wax poetic about capacity and bandwidth advantages are presenting a cogent argument based upon earnestly held beliefs, but those on the other side are slinging pure PR shite, and it's all about the money? Can you say: cognitive dissonance?

No can you please speak in plain english. It goes on with both sides, blu ray and hd dvd. I am not saying that he is the only person guilty of it. But you honestly believe this was a phone/personal interview? It sounds like he had the president of the hd dvd forum giving him crib notes.


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post #20 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ezra View Post

Let's see....

He is the CTO of a major corporation and an engineer with a very impressive resume according to the bio posted in the insiders thread.

You (and I for that matter) are an anonymous weenie posting on a forum because you are unhappy about the decision he made.

Pardon me if I give his interview more weight than your speculations.

Thanks for the anonymous weenie comment. That is high class.

I am not losing sleep over the announcement. I just don't see the financial benefit that hd dvd will get over this. 150 million is a lot of money considering the small amounts of money coming in from actual sales of hardware/software on both sides.

If he is the Chief Technology Officer, he might know a little about the formats, but I doubt he knows how to program BD-J and he sure sounded like he was ready to go type code.


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post #21 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

I just want to know why the HD DVD forum felt this was the best place to spend the cash????

Unless/until the terms of the deal is made public (if in fact, there was a deal), no one, except the people involved with the deal, can answer that question . At this point, all you're doing is making assumptions. And so far, your assumptions don't make sense.

Quote:


And they did it for what. That line of BS from the CTO of paramount. That sounded like it was written weeks ago by the dvd forum. He knows less about the formats than anyone on this forum.

Anyone that actually thinks he said that doesn't know how a corporation works.

You need to do some research on who Alan Bell, CTO Paramount, is before you form your opinion. Otherwise, you're only making yourself look like an ass.
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post #22 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

No can you please speak in plain english. It goes on with both sides, blu ray and hd dvd. I am not saying that he is the only person guilty of it. But you honestly believe this was a phone/personal interview? It sounds like he had the president of the hd dvd forum giving him crip notes.

He say HD DVD have good stuff that BD don't have. Maybe he actually believe it. Maybe it true, Maybe it possible he actually not dumbass, and know WTF he talks about. Maybe that actually make more sense ( anywhere other than Blu-land ) than a one time payoff for in.....in.....sorry, indefinite exclusive deal. Better?
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post #23 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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No, but I am glad to see Virginia public schools are up to the task.


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Was $150 million deal with Parmount/Dreamworks the best idea??

You betcha!

NOTHING more important than gaining a studio as exclusive the size of Paramount/Dreamworks.

"Content is King"

I have read those three words here at AVS AT LEAST 500 times . . . or more.

Without this announcement HD DVD could have been DOA Q1 2008. Now - totally different story. HD DVD gains . . . BD loses. Not like Lionsgate going neutral or Weinstein going neutral.
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No, but I am glad to see Virginia public schools are up to the task.

Perfect example. You've made an erroneous assumption about my educational background. But then, nearly all of us are guessing; some of us are just honest enough to reflect that fact by using qualifiers in our posts.
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First of all, I will admit, this was a big blow for the BDA. I personally didn't see anything like this coming. But while we are at it. Was this the best way to spend $150 million dollars?


All the hd dvd fans have said that a sub $200 player will win the war. You could have had your sub $200 player. You could have sold 750,000 A2's at $99 bucks each. Or 1.5 million players at $199. Thats not even a cheap chinese player. I bet wal mart would have purchased everyone of those players in a day.

Software, you could have gone to blockbuster and put 5 copies of every hd dvd title available in each of their 2000 stores. You still would have had 75 million left over to subsidize software at amazon, best buy and circuit city. They could have sold 10,000,000 hd dvd's for $12.99 and made a higher percentage margin. I bet all of those retailers would have jumped on that.


IMHO, I think the money could have been put to better use. Those titles were going to be released on hd dvd anyway. Why pay for it???

I am not trying to spin this. It is a BIG deal that this happened. I personally wanted quite a few titles from Paramount/Dreamworks and I would have wanted them on Blu Ray.

I just want to know why the HD DVD forum felt this was the best place to spend the cash????

I feel for you...

1. You don't know cash was paid.

2. Even if it was, it got a major studio to dump the format you so love dearly...

3. And their CTO sites all the reasons they decided to dump this white elephant...

4. And support is indefinite....

Both the 18 months and $150M cash - both made up by the BDA. It is possible 18 is minimum and $150M is incentives (basically accounting stuff) mostly....but the critical item is that the #1 studio has slapped all BD fan boys in their face with this - 'go to hell' attitude. I feel for you....

but this is just a movie format. Your depression will be temporary
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post #27 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 09:33 PM
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Blue Ray will be the biggest disaster in Sony's hallowed hall of failed formats. Disney and Fox are barely behind it and looking for a reason to go neutral....they got it today.
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post #28 of 47 Old 08-21-2007, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

First of all, I will admit, this was a big blow for the BDA. I personally didn't see anything like this coming. But while we are at it. Was this the best way to spend $150 million dollars?


All the hd dvd fans have said that a sub $200 player will win the war. You could have had your sub $200 player. You could have sold 750,000 A2's at $99 bucks each. Or 1.5 million players at $199. Thats not even a cheap chinese player. I bet wal mart would have purchased everyone of those players in a day.

Software, you could have gone to blockbuster and put 5 copies of every hd dvd title available in each of their 2000 stores. You still would have had 75 million left over to subsidize software at amazon, best buy and circuit city. They could have sold 10,000,000 hd dvd's for $12.99 and made a higher percentage margin. I bet all of those retailers would have jumped on that.


IMHO, I think the money could have been put to better use. Those titles were going to be released on hd dvd anyway. Why pay for it???

I am not trying to spin this. It is a BIG deal that this happened. I personally wanted quite a few titles from Paramount/Dreamworks and I would have wanted them on Blu Ray.

I just want to know why the HD DVD forum felt this was the best place to spend the cash????

For impact in the consumer's pyche of how this battle is shaping up which is better the things you listed or a major studio dropping the other format, which they had been supporting too, and press about it everywhere?
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post #29 of 47 Old 08-22-2007, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

I guess I didn't make my point. From a P/DW point of view, it is very smart. They would never make 150 million in the next 18 months off any blu ray or hd dvd. Impossible.

My point was is this the best possible money spent by the HD DVD forum?

This was absolutely the best possible way to spend their money. You're not thinking long term. They'll see that money back 10 fold when 2 things happen.
1-Bluray fails and joins all of Sony's other failed proprietary formats.
2-HD DVD gets mass adoption.

Both are probable at this point. Especially with falling HD DVD player prices and more studio support. But anything can happen. This format war isn't over yet. Let's see what both camps do over the holiday season. I have a feeling that Sony is going down...but not before the gloves come off and things get real messy first.


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post #30 of 47 Old 08-22-2007, 09:09 AM
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I agree with your point. However this was a last ditch effort to squelch the 2:1 software sales lead ratio that keeps getting worse for HD-DVD.

2:1 is nothing! Sony have been on the other end of a 20:1 Wii vs PS3 software sales spanking several times this year.
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