Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread IV: ONLY Questions to Insiders - Page 103 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2007, 02:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Pennell View Post

I would be surprised too as the performance would suck, this is a CE player, not a PS3 so it has an order of magnitude less Java horsepower.

In fact, I'm told by a provider of BD-J implementations that the Broadcom chipset found in the Samsung player has BD-J performance very similar to that of the PS3. Nonetheless, I agree that it's unlikely the "HDi" implementation (what's the correct non-trademarked term for this?!?) is written in Java.

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-24-2007, 02:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
Greg Kettell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

I'd be surprised if the PS3 gains any native iPod capabilities, given that Sony and Apple are natural rivals in the media player market. I'd expect the PS3's media playback capabilities (i.e. playlist options) to continue to be enhanced through future firmware updates, however.

Of course, Microsoft and Apple are also rivals in that arena, but curiously the 360 does have some iPod interoperability (for non-DRMed music files, anyway).

I'd like to see the PS3 add this as well, although they are continuing to make strides as a media center with Divx and WMV playback in the newest firmware.
Greg Kettell is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 04:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rakesh.S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

I'm told by a Sony contact (not in the Playstation group) that it's likely the current hardware design doesn't support bitstream output.

Just to follow up, are they working on decoding the DTS HD-MA track in the PS3 and passing it out via LPCM?
Rakesh.S is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
trondmm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
To HD DVD insiders:

I was wondering if it would be possible to create HD DVD discs that would let consumers that try to play them in regular DVD players, know that this disc is actually intended for a different type of player?

Having the player just refuse to play the disc isn't particularly user friendly, so I was thinking of something like displaying an image that says "We're sorry, but you need an HD DVD-player to watch this disc". (Or, in the case of combo discs, the image could say "please flip me over to play")

Would something like this require a twin-disc with a full DVD-layer? Or could it be possible to create a layer that is a DVD at the innermost tracks, and an HD DVD on the outermost? BTW: Does HD DVD use RSDL like DVD? If so, I was thinking that this could be done by letting the player think it's a regular twin disc at first. It would then start reading the HD DVD content from layer two, and read it from the center to the rim. When it reaches the rim, it could switch back to layer one and read from the rim towards the center.
trondmm is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 07:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Talkstr8t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Altos, CA, USA
Posts: 2,753
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S View Post

Just to follow up, are they working on decoding the DTS HD-MA track in the PS3 and passing it out via LPCM?

I wouldn't be surprised to see it in an upcoming firmware update.

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
Talkstr8t is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 08:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,983
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

i appreciate your attempt to explain my earlier question, however, i do not see that paper as stating there is a separate 2-ch downmix already on disc thereby not requiring decoding of the multi-channel presentation.

roger dressler, could you please clarify...

TIA

Sorry the paper is a little unclear, but the section on DD+ has Fig 1 which shows how TrueHD carries the substreams, one of them being the 2-ch mix.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:17 PM
Senior Member
 
romper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: seattle
Posts: 401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Amir and all your colleges and all the Blu-ray people, the very best this Holiday Season and to all your families.

This past year has proved that this is the most Pointless Format War ever...! I am RED. At the beginning I loved the White Paper of Blu-ray. Then Bill Gates said " For $199 start watching High Def Movies now", and that was a year ago November. But now no one wants to see the investment they made in one format dissolve.

And I think all of us can cry foul about that.

jack

As for 2008...Bette Davis said it best: "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night"!

"I believe in censorship. After all, I made a fortune out of it." -Mae West
romper is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked: 547
Thanks Jack. The same to you and the rest of the members.

Amir
Retired Technology Insider
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"
amirm is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Andy Pennell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kirkland, WA, USA
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by trondmm View Post

To HD DVD insiders:

I was wondering if it would be possible to create HD DVD discs that would let consumers that try to play them in regular DVD players, know that this disc is actually intended for a different type of player?

Having the player just refuse to play the disc isn't particularly user friendly, so I was thinking of something like displaying an image that says "We're sorry, but you need an HD DVD-player to watch this disc". (Or, in the case of combo discs, the image could say "please flip me over to play")

Would something like this require a twin-disc with a full DVD-layer? Or could it be possible to create a layer that is a DVD at the innermost tracks, and an HD DVD on the outermost? BTW: Does HD DVD use RSDL like DVD? If so, I was thinking that this could be done by letting the player think it's a regular twin disc at first. It would then start reading the HD DVD content from layer two, and read it from the center to the rim. When it reaches the rim, it could switch back to layer one and read from the rim towards the center.

If I understand you correctly this can be done today, at a "waste" of 9G of a DVD layer. Take a one-sided Combo disc (e.g. Freedom) with the DVD layer saying just "turn me over". Reminds me of the other side of the last disc in some laserdisc sets, it had a cute little icon that said the same thing.

HD DVD Veteran
Andy Pennell is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:34 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
alfbinet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Old Brooklyn (Cleveland), Ohio
Posts: 3,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Merry Christmas to both the Red and Blu insiders on this forum. Don't either of the camps go away. Your information is always helpful.

Chad Billheimer rocks as a ISF Calibrator for Ohio.
Roller Coaster season is upon us. Proud member of American Coaster Enthusiasts (ACE) Woodies Rule!
alfbinet is offline  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BenDover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 5,331
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Sorry the paper is a little unclear, but the section on DD+ has Fig 1 which shows how TrueHD carries the substreams, one of them being the 2-ch mix.

thanks roger...so on hd dvd, there is no standard dd core that can be decoded by a standard dd decoder?
BenDover is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 01:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RudyMeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by romper View Post

Amir and all your colleges and all the Blu-ray people, the very best this Holiday Season and to all your families.

As for 2008...Bette Davis said it best: "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night"!

I second what Jack said here.

Thanks amir!! and here wishing you and your family and all other insiders a happy holiday & a prosperous New Year.

I've learned much from reading your posts in this thread.
RudyMeister is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 03:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,983
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post

thanks roger...so on hd dvd, there is no standard dd core that can be decoded by a standard dd decoder?

If the HD DVD has DD+, the DD+ decoder can convert it on the fly to DD, unless the audio has first been decoded. So the result in this case is the same as if the disc carried a DD stream.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 04:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
salacious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Scotland's wet coast
Posts: 516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If the HD DVD has DD+, the DD+ decoder can convert it on the fly to DD, unless the audio has first been decoded. So the result in this case is the same as if the disc carried a DD stream.

Can you have a HD DVD with only a TrueHD track and no DD or DD+ track? Would this then have a hidden DD track in the TrueHD just like Blu-Ray has?

Brian

__________________________
Blu-Rays 100
HD DVDs 65
DVDs 300+

salacious is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 04:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
MovieSwede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gothenburg
Posts: 6,773
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Roger

Ive read reports hear that the Samsung couldnt "decode" 5.1 TrueHD to 2.0

Is that really possible?
MovieSwede is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 06:21 AM
 
Lee Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 19,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Pennell View Post

If I understand you correctly this can be done today, at a "waste" of 9G of a DVD layer. Take a one-sided Combo disc (e.g. Freedom) with the DVD layer saying just "turn me over". Reminds me of the other side of the last disc in some laserdisc sets, it had a cute little icon that said the same thing.

The upside down turtle!

Long live Videoscope!

Happy Holidays to ALL the Insiders.
Lee Stewart is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 09:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jdg345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year to ALL Insider's and Forum Members Alike! I wish you all a Safe, Wonderful, and Happy Season!
jdg345 is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 11:46 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Alan Gouger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Florida
Posts: 18,728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
REMINDER
Insiders please stick to questions and answers related to your association only.
I cannot keep repeating this.
Thread cleaned up.

Thank you!
Alan Gouger is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jdg345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Amir,

Any relation to your new endevour? If you can say ...

Microsoft combines IPTV, HD DVD, and Media Center Divisions
http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9837302-56.html
jdg345 is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 12:00 PM
 
John Haghighi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

I'm told by a Sony contact (not in the Playstation group) that it's likely the current hardware design doesn't support bitstream output.

Talk thanks for clarifying this from Sony's end. A Silicon Images engineer that has working knowledge of the chipset used in the PS3 has already confirmed that SiL9132 HDMI transmitter does not support bitstream of TrueHD or DTS HD MA--it is a hardware limitation. This confirmation from Sony, as well as confirmation that even the newest 40GB players are still using the SiL9132 pretty much makes it crystal clear, the only thing we can hope for is DTS HD MA decoding on the PS3 correct?
John Haghighi is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 12:10 PM
 
John Haghighi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdg345 View Post

Amir,

Any relation to your new endevour? If you can say ...

Microsoft combines IPTV, HD DVD, and Media Center Divisions
http://www.news.com/8301-13860_3-9837302-56.html

Quote:


"Microsoft believes that HD DVD offers the best overall quality and value for consumers and is the best next-generation DVD format for the industry," Jordi Ribas, general manager of the HD DVD Group at Microsoft, said in a statement. "We have made major technology investments in HD DVD, from our HDi interactive layer to our VC-1 video codec, and have more than 100 staff at Microsoft dedicated to the success of HD DVD."

Amir any chance you will be heading up this newly created group?

It seems to me that this is a natural progression in the stalemate of this war, Microsoft seems to be the only company best positioned to leverage the work it's done with VC-1 and HDi to accelerate online distribution in the connected home market.
John Haghighi is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 01:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,983
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by salacious View Post

Can you have a HD DVD with only a TrueHD track and no DD or DD+ track?

Yes.

Quote:


Would this then have a hidden DD track in the TrueHD just like Blu-Ray has?
Brian

No. In BD, TrueHD is optional, so there has to be a mandatory audio track provided.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 01:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,983
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 837 Post(s)
Liked: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Roger

Ive read reports hear that the Samsung couldnt "decode" 5.1 TrueHD to 2.0

Is that really possible?

Well, we can narrow the issue a little. A player that has only 2-ch decoding capability never has to deal with the full 5.1 channels, only the 2-ch substream, which always exists.

Is it possible that some players don't decode audio properly? I guess that's a possibility, but I cannot verify the report.

Deadwood Atmos theater
AV7702 Atmos 7.4.4, SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4
Aerial Acoustics 7B/CC3B fronts, B&W CWM8180 surrounds, Tannoy Di6 DC heights, Hsu ULS-15 subs
Roger Dressler is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 03:07 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Haghighi View Post

Amir any chance you will be heading up this newly created group?

No, that job is taken by Enrique Rodriguez . As the article implies, this is not new news but direct consequence of the changes that I talked about a couple of months related to my own position.

I hope to be able to share more tidbits about my future soon although you are likely to see that drible out than all together.

Quote:
It seems to me that this is a natural progression in the stalemate of this war, Microsoft seems to be the only company best positioned to leverage the work it's done with VC-1 and HDi to accelerate online distribution in the connected home market.

I think most companies in this space have multiple bets if you will. Take Panasonic. We surely know that they are betting on displays in addition to blu-ray. Sharp is in the same boat. Toshiba has semiconductors, storage and other businesses like that. You could say the same thing about Sony although they have put their bets closer together than any other company. Every big company in this space needs to position itself this way as to avoid all the eggs in one basket.

Can the technologies have synergies? I think everyone hopes that way. I am sure companies investing in HD DVD/BD hope that it drives sales of displays. Again, no different for us.

Amir
Retired Technology Insider
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"
amirm is offline  
Old 12-25-2007, 03:23 PM
vsv
Advanced Member
 
vsv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Any news about december's firmware update for HD DVD players to support 25p/50p content on disc ?

SOURCE: From December, all HD players will be able to replay 50p.
vsv is offline  
Old 12-26-2007, 07:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Joe Bloggs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 2,603
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

Any news about december's firmware update for HD DVD players to support 25p/50p content on disc ?

SOURCE: From December, all HD players will be able to replay 50p.

I would like to know this too. Will this be 50p at full resolution? And will this update be for USA players too (as otherwise HD-DVDs won't always work across all countries). Also, will this be something that cannot be done on Blu-ray?
Joe Bloggs is offline  
Old 12-26-2007, 08:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
trbarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Gainesville FL USA
Posts: 10,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

Any news about december's firmware update for HD DVD players to support 25p/50p content on disc ?

SOURCE: From December, all HD players will be able to replay 50p.

I to would be very interested if this means the ability to really play material mastered in 1080p/50 (or 60?). There is probably practically nothing available in that format right now but it would be easy to imagine new versions of things like the Planet Earth set or sporting event collections starting to arrive if this was really possible. Is it?

- Tom

Why don't we power our electric cars from greener, cheaper Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors?

Tom Barry - Find my video filters at www.trbarry.com
trbarry is offline  
Old 12-26-2007, 10:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
salacious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Scotland's wet coast
Posts: 516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

No. In BD, TrueHD is optional, so there has to be a mandatory audio track provided.

Thanks Roger. When people claim that TrueHD has a hidden DD track on Blu-Ray is this them just mis-understanding the mandatory/optional audio codecs or is it packaging error?

__________________________
Blu-Rays 100
HD DVDs 65
DVDs 300+

salacious is offline  
Old 12-26-2007, 12:37 PM
vsv
Advanced Member
 
vsv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tom, Joe
I think only 720p50 and 1080p25 with this update, because 1080p50/60 impossible (?) with existing hardware and nothing about this in HD DVD specification. But i've seen Sonic docs about possibility to to author primary and secondary streams at 1080p25/23,976/29,97 (dual full HD is good for 3D )...
vsv is offline  
Old 12-26-2007, 02:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
Zappcatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Santa Clara, CA 95050
Posts: 711
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
To all insiders:
What is your personal opinion regarding the affect of BOGO's on the HDM market as a whole, let alone the "war"?

As an early adopter, I am getting huge benefits from the BOGO's, yet some people are already saying that they will NEVER purchase a movie for more than $19-20 dollars.

It seems like the BOGO's have had just as negative an effect on future prices as if the studios had actually lowered MSRP(which is what they were trying to prevent).

If we do get a "winner" and there is only one HDM format, do you think the studios will be able to drive prices up to current MSRP levels? Do you think there would be a significant backlash?

HD DVD:38
BR: 51+ 23 from the WB Red2Blu promo
Zappcatt is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off