Any Blu-ray or HD-DVD players that support H.264/MP4, or WMV9 HD files? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Are there any Blu-ray or HD-DVD players (other than the PS3, and possibly Xbox 360) that will play high-def H.264/MP4, or WMV9, or even MPG video files from a DVD or USB device? And if not now, could there be some with this capability in the near future?

(If this has been asked/answered before, my apologies for repeating the question, but my searches are proving to be largely fruitless.)

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post #2 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 11:43 AM
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I dont know, but you should check what players support AVCHD.

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post #3 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 11:49 AM
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Would be kinda interested to know as well. I want to get the new Kodak V1253 camera which records in 720p in MP4, and I wouldn't mind making my own "HD DVDs on DVD" discs after.

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post #4 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 12:00 PM
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All HD-DVD players can be made to play ts or mpeg2 HD files. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

I don't think there are tools yet to easily play other formats, without reencoding them to mpeg2.
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post #5 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 12:17 PM
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I can't say for sure, but I am pretty sure that the PS3 does play .mp4 files in H.264
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post #6 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 12:41 PM
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The Xbox 360 supports wmv hd playback from dvd or dual layer dvd and also can stream files from pc.
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post #7 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 12:54 PM
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denile, the Xbox 360 also supports H.264 MP4 "file" playback, from both media and streamed. It doesn't just do WMV/WMV-HD.

Note regarding audio: On both PS3 & Xbox 360, you will be limited to two channel 'stereo' AAC audio in .MP4 files.

Of course, this is off topic.
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post #8 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptGreedle View Post

I am pretty sure that the PS3 does play .mp4 files in H.264

FWIW, I burned a couple of 720p and 1080p H.264 .MP4s ranging from about 4Mbps to 9Mbps to DVD-RW, and they seemed to play just fine on the PS3 directly from the DVD.

But I've had no luck getting them to play on standalone BD or HD-DVD players so far. Tried them on 3 or 4 models (a Sony BDP300, Samsung BDP1200, one of the Panasonics, and a Toshiba HD-DVD unit, I think), but no dice with any of them.

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post #9 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 01:35 PM
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The Pioneer BDP-HD1, BDP-94HD, and the upcoming BDP-95FD will play these from the network (DLNA/UPnP) and from a disc (files burned onto a DVD).
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post #10 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AodhFFXI View Post

Would be kinda interested to know as well. I want to get the new Kodak V1253 camera which records in 720p in MP4, and I wouldn't mind making my own "HD DVDs on DVD" discs after.

This will work in your Xbox 360 SD DVD drive. Xbox started supporting MP4 with the late summer update. (I think that is when it was)
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post #11 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I dont know, but you should check what players support AVCHD.

I don't know too much about this format (other than it's a new HD camcorder format supported by the BD mfrs), but since you brought it up... If I don't own an AVCHD camcorder, how difficult/costly do think it would be to losslessly convert or compile HD content into AVCHD format? Also, does AVCHD support full 1920x1080p resolutions?

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post #12 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Capek View Post

All HD-DVD players can be made to play ts or mpeg2 HD files. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

I don't think there are tools yet to easily play other formats, without reencoding them to mpeg2.

Thanks for the link. I was following this thread for awhile, but then sort of lost interest when Ulead eliminated "support" for burning HD-DVD files to regular DVDs from their software. Is it possible to just burn raw MPEG2 program streams to a data DVD, and play those on some HD-DVD players? Or is it still necessary to go through various machinations (ie convert to transport stream, create HD-DVD file structure, etc.) to get the MPEG2 HD files to work?

I'm hoping for a process that's as easy/painless as possible, and delivers good results. If alot of tinkering and different software apps are involved then I think I'd just as soon pass.

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post #13 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saleen001 View Post

The Pioneer BDP-HD1, BDP-94HD, and the upcoming BDP-95FD will play these from the network (DLNA/UPnP) and from a disc (files burned onto a DVD).

Interesting. These units may be a little to steep for my pocketbook, but based on specs I've been able to find, it looks as though the BDP-HD1 and BDP-94HD support WMVHD and VC-1, but not H.264/MP4s. It doesn't look like the specs on the BDP-95FD have been finalized though, so maybe it's possible that unit will include some H.264/MP4 support?

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post #14 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post

... If I don't own an AVCHD camcorder, how difficult/costly do think it would be to losslessly convert or compile HD content into AVCHD format? ...

Well, you are not going to get any tools that do lossless conversion

I converted mpeg2 HD footages to VC1 that play fine on my xbox (from a DVD as well as a memory stick), with VC1 using half mpeg2 bitrate, I saw no difference in PQ viewed on a large 1080p TV.
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post #15 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 05:23 PM
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XBOX360 is probably your poision of choice. I do like the interface on the PS3 more, but in typical Sony fashion it requires you to do specific things to the attached HDD / DVD layout in order for it to see it.

Then there is this neat little trick to use the Mac OS Extended file system to load files larger than 4GB on the XBOX (make sure to install the iPod support).

One hitch though, for both systems the file limit seems to be 4GB for MP4 (WMV doesn't have this limitation) which means you either have to split longer movies or compress it more.
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post #16 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 07:32 PM
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The Xbox 360 last I checked mangled playback of several of my H.264 QuickTime files.

However, I haven't checked in months.
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post #17 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

The Xbox 360 last I checked mangled playback of several of my H.264 QuickTime files.

However, I haven't checked in months.

Curious, how does it mangle it? My experience has been it either plays it or it doesn't and both the PS3 and the XBOX are a bit choosy in what they play.
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post #18 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 08:15 PM
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There are sync issues, and sometimes some video glitches. For example:

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide...music2dvd.html

However, like I said, I haven't checked it recently. Perhaps after the recent updates, the H.264 playback has improved, I dunno.
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post #19 of 24 Old 09-27-2007, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post

I don't know too much about this format (other than it's a new HD camcorder format supported by the BD mfrs), but since you brought it up... If I don't own an AVCHD camcorder, how difficult/costly do think it would be to losslessly convert or compile HD content into AVCHD format? Also, does AVCHD support full 1920x1080p resolutions?


AVCHD supports a wide range of audio and video settings including 1920*1080
But it has a bitrate limit of 18mbit/s for video.

Nero has AVCHD encoding, but it aint losslees (that would need maybe 20X the bitrate)

What is your source?

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #20 of 24 Old 09-28-2007, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley5 View Post

Well, you are not going to get any tools that do lossless conversion

I'm not the expert, but I think it sort of depends what's being converted into what. If you're simply changing an H.264 file from one container into another for example, then I suspect lossless conversion should be possible. (That's the way it seems to work in Quicktime anyway with the passthru option.)
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I converted mpeg2 HD footages to VC1 that play fine on my xbox (from a DVD as well as a memory stick), with VC1 using half mpeg2 bitrate, I saw no difference in PQ viewed on a large 1080p TV.

Point well-taken. In my MP4 tests I also did some scaling and reencoding as well, and the results were still pretty good. The results you get when reencoding will depend alot on the quality/resolution of the original source file/s, the encoder and bitrates involved though (as I'm sure you know).

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post #21 of 24 Old 09-28-2007, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowrunner View Post

XBOX360 is probably your poision of choice. I do like the interface on the PS3 more, but in typical Sony fashion it requires you to do specific things to the attached HDD / DVD layout in order for it to see it.

Then there is this neat little trick to use the Mac OS Extended file system to load files larger than 4GB on the XBOX (make sure to install the iPod support).

One hitch though, for both systems the file limit seems to be 4GB for MP4 (WMV doesn't have this limitation) which means you either have to split longer movies or compress it more.

Good tips. And you're probably right that either one would likely do a pretty good job. My hesitation mainly has to do with the horsepower of these systems, which is probably overkill for my applications since I don't plan on doing much, if any gaming. (Hence, the interest in exploring some other, more streamlined alternatives.)

If I get an HDM player though, I'd like it to do a few more HDMs than just BD or HD-DVD. Unless I'm mistaken, the decoding capabilities should already be there in most standalone players. It's just a question of enabling it for other file formats.

If there aren't any standalones that look viable though, then I'll probably do as you suggest and get either a PS3 or Xbox, so the add'l insights on these are appreciated.

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post #22 of 24 Old 09-28-2007, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

AVCHD supports a wide range of audio and video settings including 1920*1080
But it has a bitrate limit of 18mbit/s for video.

Nero has AVCHD encoding, but it aint losslees (that would need maybe 20X the bitrate)

18Mbps would probably be more than satisfactory for my needs. When I said lossless, what I meant was lossless conversion of the same file format/codec from one container to another, such as an H.264/MOV -> H.264/MP4. (I'm still a bit new to the HDM game, so you'll have to bear with me if I misspeak, or get my codecs confused with my containers.)
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What is your source?

Starting format could be a variety of things. At the moment, most of my homespun stuff simply begins as sequences of BMPs or PNGs, and WAV files. H.264 MOVs are also a likely starting format. My workflow could be adjusted to accomodate others as well. To make this worthwhile though, the software needs to be cheap, the workflow simple, and the final output reasonably high quality, since this would likely be just a stopgap until Blu-ray or HD-DVD burners come down in price.

The only applications I use for video now are Quicktime (PC) and DVD Movie Factory. Quicktime Pro appears to have no AVCHD output option at the moment, but perhaps that's something they're working on, since it's another variation on the H.264 theme. IAC, if Nero can do HD encoding comparable to (or better than?) QT, and produce something BD or HD-DVD players can recognize and play well, I'm certainly open to giving it a try.

Great input btw folks. Thanks.

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post #23 of 24 Old 09-28-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADU View Post

Good tips. And you're probably right that either one would likely do a pretty good job. My hesitation mainly has to do with the horsepower of these systems, which is probably overkill for my applications since I don't plan on doing much, if any gaming. (Hence, the interest in exploring some other, more streamlined alternatives.)

Let me know if you find one. There are some pretty "hard" limitations on both the PS3 and the XBOX as far as Max Bitrate goes (I think it is 12MBit/s with main profile support only, no advanced 5.1 etc.).

Quote:


If I get an HDM player though, I'd like it to do a few more HDMs than just BD or HD-DVD. Unless I'm mistaken, the decoding capabilities should already be there in most standalone players. It's just a question of enabling it for other file formats.

I looked around as well but couldn't find anything yet that could read the MP4 container. WMV may be a different thing as quite a few Standard DVD players do support WMV these days, but not in HD.

I think you will probably come up empty for a while until third party (read cheap Chinese) HD DVD players start flooding the market and one of them wants to "stand out" by supporting MP4 as well.

But again, realistically even the divx playback right now is a feature that most people don't use / understand.

Quote:


If there aren't any standalones that look viable though, then I'll probably do as you suggest and get either a PS3 or Xbox, so the add'l insights on these are appreciated.

I looked and couldn't find anything, if you find something please let me know (PM) as I would really like to explore this further as well as indeed both the PS3 and the XBOX are pretty power hungry not to mention can get loud.
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post #24 of 24 Old 09-29-2007, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowrunner View Post

if you find something please let me know...

Maybe I can go one better than that. I was thinkin it would be sorta cool to start a list of alternative HD formats supported by different players, games systems, etc., so I compiled the info posted here along with some other data I've been able to find so far, and made sort of a spreadsheet thingy with it:
Attachment 94592*

*DISCLAIMER: Information in the attached table and notes below is a work in progress, and may contain mistakes and inaccuracies. Much of the information (especially items with a question mark "?", and/or a lighter-colored box), is simply a best guess based on info found or provided here on the AVS Forums, via manufacturers' websites, or through other sources such as wikipedia. All info here should be regarded as tentative, and subject to change. No warranties, either express or implied are made as to the suitability of this information for any particular purpose. So use any and all info here entirely at your own risk, and verify the accuracy (or lack thereof) for yourself before making any purchasing decisions based on it.

*NOTES:
[1] .M2TS /.MTS, limited to 18 Mbps.
[2] See AVS thread #705146.
[3] With $180 add-on HD-DVD drive, or bundle.
[4] With summer '07 update, or later.
[5] File size limited to 4GB.
[6] H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC). (No AC3.)
[7] MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AAC LC, AC3 (Dolby Digital), LPCM.
[8] MPEG2 Audio Layer 2. (No AC3.)
[9] Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps.
[10] Core systems are available for about $280, but they lack HDMI. Systems bundled with an HD-DVD drive are also available for about $580.

LL

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