300 on Blu-ray STILL holds the record for first week HDM sales - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/

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One Blu-ray studio then provided me with 3rd party substantiation: an internal email from Nielsen's Videoscan giving the point-of-sale data which Paramount isn't disputing:

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert)
---
300 HD-DVD/DVD Combo Pack
Week Ending 8/5/07 = 56,191 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert)
---
300 Blu-ray
Week Ending 8/5/07 = 107,351 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert)

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post #2 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 02:22 AM
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I wish the article had verified as to which version of the story is right instead of just reporting conflicting numbers. So does Nielsen data include sales from Amazon and Blockbuster?
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post #3 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 02:30 AM
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When does Nielsen's numbers come out for public view?
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post #4 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 02:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine View Post

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/


Now we know that Paramount's big press release was how many disks they shipped to retailers. Shipped does not equal sales.

300 on Blu-ray still wins first week sales to actual customers.
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post #5 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by digicam95 View Post

When does Nielsen's numbers come out for public view?

The raw data generally never comes out to the public. Sometimes a customer of the data will post it in various forms but as far as I know Nielsen never just releases the data to the public in its entirety/detail.
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post #6 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apples View Post

Now we know that Paramount's big press release was how many disks they shipped to retailers. Shipped does not equal sales.

Yup, same thing Sony did with their reported sales of Casino Royal.

This is what Studios typically do.

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post #7 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine View Post

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...at-stupid-lie/

Wow, Such a huge difference in 1st week sales between 300 and Transformers. And, unlike 300 with its staying power over time, Transformers has already sunk to 19th position on the current Amazon top sellers list. And it still only the 2nd week of the release. Transformers is nowhere near being in the same league as 300.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm
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post #8 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 05:56 AM
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It seems to me the point is not whether Transformers had the highest first week sales ever, but rather whether Paramount's press release did or did not grossly overstate first week sales. It seems there is no doubt now that it did.
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post #9 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 05:59 AM
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I don't understand why everyone keeps asking what retailers are excluded from the data as if that would lead to the "Scooby-doo moment".

If Walmart or Amazon is missing from the Transformers Nielsen data, then it would also be missing from the 300 Blu-ray data. The Nielsen data represents an apples to apples comparison and is probably the best we're going to get.

I can't see why the individual retailer market share for HDM would have shifted significantly for this release. Statistics are often based on large, sampled data.
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post #10 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 06:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper View Post

Wow, Such a huge difference in 1st week sales between 300 and Transformers. And, unlike 300 with its staying power over time, Transformers has already sunk to 19th position on the current Amazon top sellers list. And it still only the 2nd week of the release. Transformers is nowhere near being in the same league as 300.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm

This is the third time I've seen you post about the sinking chart position. I think the forum regulars get it now.
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post #11 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apples View Post

Now we know that Paramount's big press release was how many disks they shipped to retailers. Shipped does not equal sales.

Heh reminds me of Casino Royale
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post #12 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

This is the third time I've seen you post about the sinking chart position. I think the forum regulars get it now.

How many posts here say something that has been said before? A fairly high percentage, I think.
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post #13 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 06:26 AM
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I love when studios release bogus figures...

I also love how some seem to care if transformers doesn't have staying power and is "dropping" in sales rank at amazon...why does this matter to ANYONE? How does that fact improve your life?

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post #14 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

I love when studios release bogus figures...

I also love how some seem to care if transformers doesn't have staying power and is "dropping" in sales rank at amazon...why does this matter to ANYONE? How does that fact improve your life?

Because there is a very large number here that isn't in the Neilson numbers...the number of folks on AVS Forum who feel being right is more important than anything else in their lives and at the same time are through the roof on the nerd meter. This is the detail that makes this forum rife with this sort of thing.

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post #15 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 08:18 AM
 
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Shipped does not equal sales.

It does to Paramount (and every other studio).

You think discs are provided to retail on spec?
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post #16 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

It does to Paramount (and every other studio).

You think discs are provided to retail on spec?

Direct hit.

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post #17 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olarmy96 View Post

I don't understand why everyone keeps asking what retailers are excluded from the data as if that would lead to the "Scooby-doo moment".

If Walmart or Amazon is missing from the Transformers Nielsen data, then it would also be missing from the 300 Blu-ray data. The Nielsen data represents an apples to apples comparison and is probably the best we're going to get.

I can't see why the individual retailer market share for HDM would have shifted significantly for this release. Statistics are often based on large, sampled data.

You also have to remember that Nielson's sales figures are projections based on extrapolation from the data they do collect. Wal-Mart and Amazon being present or not present it irrelevant. Nielson's statistical analysis makes assumptions to include sales from those retailers as well. Do you really think they are simply counting only a percentage of retailers, then posting that number as the total sold? Just like when they say 10 million people watched a show. It doesn't mean 10 million Nielson participants watched the show. It means based on the number of Nielson participants that did, this is how many probably watched it nationwide. There is definitely some error in the numbers, but their methods have been proven accurate and trusted by big name advertisers for years.
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post #18 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 08:50 AM
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I think according to FASB movie studios can record the sale as soon as they sell the disks to the stores. It is then up to the store to sell to the customer.

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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post #19 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 08:57 AM
 
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Hey, whatever helps you guys deal with not having Transformers on BR.
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post #20 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:03 AM
 
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I believe according to GAAP, you can record revenue (sale) as long as there is no understanding that unsold units can be shipped back. In that case, only sold to consumers can be recorded. So, when GM sells a car to a dealer, they cannot count it as revenue earned....

The whole concept of revenue recognition is designed so that you don't inflate sales by shipping to channels and it sits there. It's been a while since I studied accounting, but I took a few courses at UTexas, Austin
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post #21 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 5thDanMaster View Post

Hey, whatever helps you guys deal with not having Transformers on BR.

So you don't care that Paramount flat out lied when they claimed to have "the fastest and best-selling week one release on either high definition format"?
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post #22 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

This is the third time I've seen you post about the sinking chart position. I think the forum regulars get it now.

Well, not everyone is a forum "regular", so maybe not everyone knows that Transformers has now sunk to 20th place on Amazon's Top Sellers list and is not in the same league as 300.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm
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post #23 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:28 AM
 
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...so maybe not everyone knows that Transformers has now sunk to 20th place on Amazon's Top Sellers list and is not in the same league as 300.

Sheesh, some of you really don't understand how a retail market works and how to interpret statistics.

Transformers was released two weeks ago. The current market is saturated for that title. 300 was released three months ago. Sales continue to chart due to new players entering the market in those three months. Transformers sales will also continue to chart three months from now when those buying new players enter the market SUBSEQUENT to the release of the disc.

So, to those that aren't forum "regulars", be careful who's BS you believe.
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post #24 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine View Post

So you don't care that Paramount flat out lied when they claimed to have "the fastest and best-selling week one release on either high definition format"?

Where is your PROOF that Paramount "flat out lied"? We don't have all the sales numbers. From all the indications I saw and heard, many BB, CC, WM stores ran out of their allotment of Transformers. A lot of people pre-ordered their copy on Amazon as I did. All we have is speculation that the numers are less than 100k, but NO PROOF.

Far too many insecure BD fanboys feel threatened by Transformers and still feel the pain of losing Paramount, to the point of negating anything positive.

What is wrong with taking things at face value? Neilson rating are not exact just as Amazon's bestsellers numbers aren't acurate for the entire sales base.

edit: By the way, for those loving Amazon's bestsellers, Transformers at 20 is still ahead of Spiderman 3 on BD. Transformers pre-release held a steady top 10 position, even when the B1G1 deal was going on for BD. Just thought I'd make that counter-point for the those that care.
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post #25 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:38 AM
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So let me get this straight.

Blu-Boys bitch and scream about HD DVD owners asking "is the 115k figure from HMM correct"

Now that a third source has a lower number the third source is as good as gospel?

Pot Kettle Black
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post #26 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelHDDVD View Post

So let me get this straight.

Blu-Boys bitch and scream about HD DVD owners asking "is the 115k figure from HMM correct"

Now that a third source has a lower number the third source is as good as gospel?

Pot Kettle Black

whut?

are u saying Neilson isn't correct? Or HMM?

Or u will just blindly believe anything Paramount says?
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post #27 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

Sheesh, some of you really don't understand how a retail market works and how to interpret statistics.

Transformers was released two weeks ago. The current market is saturated for that title. 300 was released three months ago. Sales continue to chart due to new players entering the market in those three months. Transformers sales will also continue to chart three months from now when those buying new players enter the market SUBSEQUENT to the release of the disc.

So, to those that aren't forum "regulars", be careful who's BS you believe.

Yes indeed, those who are not forum "regulars" as well as those who are forum "regulars" should certainly be careful about believing BS.

When 300 was released on HD-DVD it was 3rd on the rankings (behind 300 on DVD which was #1 and behind 300 Blu-ray which was number 2). And it stayed there for weeks and it's impact was felt on the Nielsens for many weeks. It's the 5th day of the 2nd week of the 300 release and it has already fallen to 20th place. This movie is not going to have the impact of 300.

And you're are right. There's been an incredible amount of BS that has been posted about Transformers. How great its sales have been and how it is the bestselling HD video, how it outsold 300 in its first week, etc. And, quite frankly, it's ALL BS. It like comparing a baseball player who made it to AAA, stayed there a very short time and then rapidly descended to AA and then out of baseball with a baseball player who made it to the major leagues and had a hall of fame career there.

So when I see the BS starting to get too deep, I do like to interject some facts (with a supporting link) to add a dose of reality.
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post #28 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4HD View Post

Where is your PROOF that Paramount "flat out lied"? We don't have all the sales numbers. From all the indications I saw and heard, many BB, CC, WM stores ran out of their allotment of Transformers. A lot of people pre-ordered their copy on Amazon as I did. All we have is speculation that the numers are less than 100k, but NO PROOF.

Far too many insecure BD fanboys feel threatened by Transformers and still feel the pain of losing Paramount, to the point of negating anything positive.

What is wrong with taking things at face value? Neilson rating are not exact just as Amazon's bestsellers numbers aren't acurate for the entire sales base.

edit: By the way, for those loving Amazon's bestsellers, Transformers at 20 is still ahead of Spiderman 3 on BD. Transformers pre-release held a steady top 10 position, even when the B1G1 deal was going on for BD. Just thought I'd make that counter-point for the those that care.

Sounds like YOU'RE the one feeling threatened.

Transformers will probably end up be the 4th best selling HDM title this year, maybe fifth depending on how the Pixar movies will do

1)Spiderman 3
2) Pirates 3
3) 300
4) Rataoillue (sp?)
5) Transformers

Oh btw, there are multiple Spiderman 3 SKU (standalone and boxset with 1&2). Your comparing apples to oranges I'm afraid.
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post #29 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgarnagle View Post

whut?

are u saying Neilson isn't correct? Or HMM?

Or u will just blindly believe anything Paramount says?

I'm just trying to figure out the bluboys train of though. HMM stated that 115k were sold, unless I am wrong HMM gets their numbers from nielsen which is how they inform us of the ratios every week
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post #30 of 82 Old 10-27-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

I love when studios release bogus figures...

I also love how some seem to care if transformers doesn't have staying power and is "dropping" in sales rank at amazon...why does this matter to ANYONE? How does that fact improve your life?

And the sells will probably dropped dramatically since Transformers on HD DVD has now been cracked and ready for ripping for free.

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