HD Disk (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) EE and DNR list - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 746 Old 06-07-2008, 09:58 AM
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I skimmed through the Patton Blu-ray a bit this morning, and I must say that it should definitely stay on the list for excessive DNR. I thought that I wouldn't find it as objectionable as Robert Harris found it, but it's an unabashed disappointment in my opinion.
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post #362 of 746 Old 06-07-2008, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Does no one care about this sharpening test thing or is it because it appears I broke image-load?

Probably that. I like the idea of processing images to find what's really happening with the compression though.
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post #363 of 746 Old 06-07-2008, 11:50 PM
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Image-load appears to be working again. Here's an oversharpened shot from The Shining so you can see the graininess.

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post #364 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 01:06 AM
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Thanks msgohan. No offense. I am still not convinced with the overall PQ of The Shining though some parts of it really popped.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #365 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 03:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Added "The Longest Day" and Patton pics.
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post #366 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post


First the obvious "Pan's Labyrinth" comparison to see what we're looking for:



First shot has "smooth" details and blocks, second has grain specks everywhere and no compression crap that I can see.


The difference is quite noticable. Is that UK version the version that's available on HD DVD? I have the US HD DVD but agree that that the UK pic (whatever format it is on) looks better. I believe the UK HD DVD is pretty cheap to come by, so a double dip wouldn't bother me.
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post #367 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 08:08 AM
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Heh the point of the post wasn't about Pan's Labyrinth, but yes there is a big difference. The UK shot is from the BD, no one seems to know if the UK HD DVD is the same transfer or not but the encode has to be different since the BD one is too large to fit.
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post #368 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 08:11 AM
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No full-rez shots of The Longest Day yet? As cleaned-up as Patton was, it seems TLD might be a proper cartoon job.
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post #369 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paku View Post

No full-rez shots of The Longest Day yet? As cleaned-up as Patton was, it seems TLD might be a proper cartoon job.

Unsure if this has been posted here before, but Blu-ray.com has some 720p shots, the smoothed over look appears to indicate it's suffered the same fate as Patton.

Also just to point out, DVDBeaver's DVD comparison of Patton reveals the old DVD wasn't DNR'ed, but the new DVD (used for the BD) was. Also looks like the colors have been screwed with, every object looks like a uniform shade of green.





Not buying either of these on Blu-ray. Absolutely pathetic.
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post #370 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Heh the point of the post wasn't about Pan's Labyrinth, but yes there is a big difference. The UK shot is from the BD, no one seems to know if the UK HD DVD is the same transfer or not but the encode has to be different since the BD one is too large to fit.

Hmm. Does it (BD) have similar extras to the US release, and are they playable on US players?
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post #371 of 746 Old 06-08-2008, 09:31 AM
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I'll refer you to the thread I started when I was looking at the different releases.
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post #372 of 746 Old 06-09-2008, 11:52 PM
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http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/

The Orphanage - Stair-stepping ahoy!

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The Blu-ray release, unfortunately, is marred by the fact that it appears to have been taken from a source with a horizontal resolution of less than 1920 pixels. A certain blockiness is evident throughout in diagonal edges, which take on a stair-stepped quality: look, for example, at Fernando Cayo's nose in Shot 7 and Mabel Rivera's cheek in Example 9. Basically, it's like a less extreme version of the effect visible in Warner's early so-called "1080i upconverted" transfers. It's not dreadful, and it's somewhat ironic that the end result actually looks somewhat better than the full 1920x1080 The Golden Compass in all its noise reduced glory, but it's disappointing nonetheless. New Line's HD output, so far, has been pretty problematic to say the least, and it's a shame (but not entirely surprising) that reviewers haven't been picking up on these faults.


Blu-ray : 340
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post #373 of 746 Old 06-10-2008, 03:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

I did notice that but its very very very minor. Unless your nose is on the screen you are not going to see it. It shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the Warner stuff.

Looking at the stills I think it's not too obvious but clearly there. This one shows it well:
http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/hdc...orphanage3.jpg
I will see this sitting 2 screen heights away. The same way I see the single lines in one pixel wide black and white lines test patterns.
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post #374 of 746 Old 06-13-2008, 01:59 AM
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Title: Face/Off (1997)
Studio: Paramount
Disc: BD (US)
Problem: DNR, EE
Time Codes: Entire movie
Comments: It doesn't take more than 10~15 minutes to realize how bad the PQ is. An excellent title slapped with moderate to heavy DNR and sharpening visible on the facial outlines (forehead to be precise). The Import version looks miles better than the domestic release though ultimately they all seem to be minted from a poor improperly cleansed HD master. This has got to be the worst High Definition experience for me next to First Blood.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #375 of 746 Old 06-13-2008, 03:52 AM
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Twister

OMGWTFBBQ!

I want a refuuuuuuuuuuuund!
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post #376 of 746 Old 06-13-2008, 04:13 AM
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I would like to thank mhafner for this invaluable informative thread. It has helped members with much better understanding of Digital Noise Reduction and Edge Enchancement used on High Definition releases.

Some people may not be happy with us (AVS) complaining about these overused digital tricks because its not being favorable to the winning format. Even though its so obvious that these "tricks" has essentially artificially removed the character of the films that we love.

Keep up the excellent work, I support you 100% and for the rest of you guys keep looking . . . . . . . . . . .
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post #377 of 746 Old 06-13-2008, 11:02 AM
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I think two early Lions Gate BDs need to be added for excessive DNR. Both of these titles have considerably more high frequency detail and grain on their overseas HD DVD releases.

Title: Basic Instinct (1992)
Studio: Lions Gate
Disc: BD (USA)
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole film
Comments: There is literally no grain and significantly less detail than what is found in other HD presentations. DNR artifacts such as ghosting trails are not uncommon.
URLs:

Title: First Blood (1982)
Studio: Lions Gate
Disc: BD (USA)
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole film
Comments: Virtually no film grain, wax-like presentation, and an abundance of ghosting artifacts.
URLs:
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post #378 of 746 Old 06-13-2008, 07:49 PM
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+1 for First Blood but I thought the application of DNR varied from shot to shot.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #379 of 746 Old 06-13-2008, 08:09 PM
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That may be, but there didn't seem to be a single moment when Lions Gate let the image come through on its own merits. The DNR here is simply terrible. A thread from last year was revived where I mentioned this, which reminded me to talk about it here.

Doing a quick search, I see that even a "professional" reviewer caught on to this (which says a lot). As he said, "First Blood almost looks fantastic in high-def."
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post #380 of 746 Old 06-14-2008, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Title: Basic Instinct (1992)
Studio: Lions Gate
Disc: BD (USA)
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole film
Comments: There is literally no grain and significantly less detail than what is found in other HD presentations. DNR artifacts such as ghosting trails are not uncommon.
URLs:

You're not kidding! I guess I was blind to DNR when I first watched this in January cause I thought it was pretty good, but wow, I checked it again and faces are destroyed. You're right about there being no grain; instead flat colors are occupied by patches of what look like small moving compression artifacts.
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post #381 of 746 Old 06-14-2008, 04:31 AM
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First Blood HD DVD vs Blu-ray. Same master, but US BD has been brightened a bit. The source seems to exhibit the same type of cross-hatch-like noise pattern instead of grain as Face/Off. Basically terrible, and needs a completely new transfer from film.
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post #382 of 746 Old 06-14-2008, 04:45 AM
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Is the German HD DVD the same transfer as French and Australian? I'm not seeing the additional detail people have claimed.
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post #383 of 746 Old 06-14-2008, 05:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I think two early Lions Gate BDs need to be added for excessive DNR. Both of these titles have considerably more high frequency detail and grain on their overseas HD DVD releases.

Title: Basic Instinct (1992)
Studio: Lions Gate
Disc: BD (USA)
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole film
Comments: There is literally no grain and significantly less detail than what is found in other HD presentations. DNR artifacts such as ghosting trails are not uncommon.
URLs:

Title: First Blood (1982)
Studio: Lions Gate
Disc: BD (USA)
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole film
Comments: Virtually no film grain, wax-like presentation, and an abundance of ghosting artifacts.
URLs:

Oh shoot i ordered Basic Instinct and have it arriving soon......Now i'm going to be very disappointed.

When watching Rambo yesterday on Blu Ray i came across the trailers for the original Rambo trilogy.....Picture looked way too soft and smooth and to my eyes lacking real detail....Are the trailers representative of the actual movies on Blu Ray because if they are then i'm going to avoid them.

Rambo ( 4th one ) looked great though with some nice fine grain left intact.

Also saw the trailer for The Punisher.....Wow it looked soft and very smooth and undetailed...Once again is this the way it actually looks on Blu Ray ?

I'm starting to get fed up with all this **** I may take a long break from the forums as the DNR thing is just starting to bug me and i find myself unable to hold back from posting when people start saying something with lots of DNR looks great....

I know i'm being stupid and silly by responding but it just bugs the hell out of me that some great films that i want to buy are being ruined and this hobby of mine is starting to feel less fun now and i'm starting to feel that buying films is becoming pointless. It seems hit and miss whether a film is going to look great or bad and some of my favorites appear to have been ruined on Blu Ray due to excessive DNR or added Edge enhancement.

Every time i buy something now it's like i need to read a dozen reviews and visit these forums just to find out whether the studio messed up or not and that to me is a real pain and i'm starting to question the whole point of buying anything.....Then i watch a great transfer and start to believe a little again.

Then there is the added issues of edge enhancement ( why the **** are studio's continuing to add this to HD media )

I am starting to wonder what has happened to AVS forums though with so many saying the DNR look of films like Patton is great....In the old days that would never have happened to the extent it now does....If this continues it may be a place i won't want to visit but at the moment threads like this keep me here and keep me informed.

Ok rant over.....maybe i will post less but read more as i also seem to have ticked a few people off with my opinions and frankly i don't need the hassles that can come from that.

Great thread though and i'm glad it's here.
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post #384 of 746 Old 06-14-2008, 06:53 AM
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Quote:


so many saying the DNR look of films like Patton is great.

Don't be insincere buddy. Even members in blu-ray forum have quoted that Patton looks Phenomenal. I had initially posted in the PQ tier thread that Patton looked excellent but couldn't boldly tell it was DNR-ed because of lack of evidence and due to the fact of it looking great on 37" and 50" Plasma. Once it was proven by experts I had openly requested the members to disregard my PQ assessment. So how many out here you think will do that ?

Besides the DNR does Patton really looked pathetic ? Nope. It still looks good sorry great than many DNR free titles. Could you quote some posts that mentions Patton looks great ?

Please keep in mind that not all members oyt here have the trained eyes to deeply assess PQ and point out flaws. There are J6Ps like me out here who are learning a lot from experienced members out here. Just because few members quote something wrong doesn't bring disgrace to this forum.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #385 of 746 Old 06-14-2008, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Don't be insincere buddy. Even members in blu-ray forum have quoted that Patton looks Phenomenal. I had initially posted in the PQ tier thread that Patton looked excellent but couldn't boldly tell it was DNR-ed because of lack of evidence and due to the fact of it looking great on 37" and 50" Plasma. Once it was proven by experts I had openly requested the members to disregard my PQ assessment. So how many out here you think will do that ?

Besides the DNR does Patton really looked pathetic ? Nope. It still looks good sorry great than many DNR free titles. Could you quote some posts that mentions Patton looks great ?

Please keep in mind that not all members oyt here have the trained eyes to deeply assess PQ and point out flaws. There are J6Ps like me out here who are learning a lot from experienced members out here. Just because few members quote something wrong doesn't bring disgrace to this forum.


I will say this while on a FJ it is much more noticeable, I certainly noticed this on my 50" plasma as well. This is one of the worst cases of DNR I have seen and couldn't have been more obvious. The faces look like Clay for Pete's sake. It is a shame that this great film has been butchered.

FWIW, I thought The Shinning was one of the best if not the best older titles I own. I didn't notice DNR at all.
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post #386 of 746 Old 06-14-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I think two early Lions Gate BDs need to be added for excessive DNR. Both of these titles have considerably more high frequency detail and grain on their overseas HD DVD releases.

Title: Basic Instinct (1992)
Studio: Lions Gate
Disc: BD (USA)
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole film
Comments: There is literally no grain and significantly less detail than what is found in other HD presentations. DNR artifacts such as ghosting trails are not uncommon.
URLs:

Title: First Blood (1982)
Studio: Lions Gate
Disc: BD (USA)
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole film
Comments: Virtually no film grain, wax-like presentation, and an abundance of ghosting artifacts.
URLs:


The HD DVDs of both have the 'pitch issue'. I haven't watched any of the affected titles and I'm not sure how noticeable it is. Either way, I'm at a loss here because I love most of Verhoeven's films (Basic Instinct and Total Recall both affected) and First Blood is a classic.
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post #387 of 746 Old 06-21-2008, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Added Gangs of New York US-Disney. Stinks like the UK version.
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post #388 of 746 Old 06-21-2008, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Is the German HD DVD the same transfer as French and Australian? I'm not seeing the additional detail people have claimed.

Same here, the BD just looks brightened based on the screencaps. If anything, the stills on that page make the BD look better IMO. It's not a big difference like the stills comparison of Total Recall. I went ahead and ordered Total Recall, even if it has the pitch issue. Perhaps it won't bother me too much. Either way, I already own the BD and I'll keep both. I also ordered Basic Instinct. The trailers on the Studio Canal HD DVDs have footage from this and it has grain. So if the BD (which I plan to order also) does have details DNRed out, I'll be keeping both once again. But those caps for First Blood don't make me want to go out and order the HD DVD. They look the same but with different brightness. And Rambo II & III are said to be fine in the PQ department according to Igans, I think.
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post #389 of 746 Old 06-26-2008, 03:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Mr. Bean looks clean to me too. I have pulled it till some stills actually show EE.
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post #390 of 746 Old 06-27-2008, 12:47 PM
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Excellent series on some of Universal's old catalog titles we love. With screen captures.

Universal's House of Horrors

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3
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