40th DVD Forum Steering Committee Meeting Results - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Yes - Final Approval means:

1. It has been tested using existing Man. Pressing Plant lines under normal run times - monitored by a 3rd party. Datarius is a company that does this for the DVD Forum. They are an approved tester.

2. It has passed all the Verification guidelines

3. It has passed all the Compatability guidelines.

It is ready to rock and roll . . . as far as the Physical Specs.

http://www.datarius.com/news/news-HT...-sept-2007.htm

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post #32 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 05:41 PM
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Ye mystic one !! I can't read the message in the tea leaves. Care to spell it out for me, please?
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post #33 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Ye mystic one !! I can't read the message in the tea leaves. Care to spell it out for me, please?

Quote:


The major themes of the Seminar are Format Verification for DVD/HD DVD test specifications
and HD DVD Format/Logo Licence.

This seminiar was held to explain EXACTLY what Datarius does in their testing procedures - the procedures they use - the testing equipent they use (their own), the forms that they use and how to interput the results.

And to explain the license.
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post #34 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

This seminiar was held to explain EXACTLY what Datarius does in their testing procedures - the procedures they use - the testing equipent they use (their own), the forms that they use and how to interput the results.

And to explain the license.

I understood as much. I was just wondering if there was any implication that TL-51 was demo tested.
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post #35 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

I understood as much. I was just wondering if there was any implication that TL-51 was demo tested.

I don't see how unless Kosty knows something more. The Final Approval was given today. I was under the impression that the TL51 was under strict NDA's.

The final specs were shown in Japan a month ago but it was only the final revision (2.0) used in a slide(s) - a talking point IMO. No demo was held that I heard about.
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post #36 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I don't see how unless Kosty knows something more. The Final Approval was given today. I was under the impression that the TL51 was under strict NDA's.

The final specs were shown in Japan a month ago but it was only the final revision (2.0) used in a slide(s) - a talking point IMO. No demo was held that I heard about.


Well I hope they don't take their time releasing news if it will work with existing hd dvd players. Would be nice for the studios to know about it so they can make decisions about what movies and extras to put on it. Plus it would help fence sitters make a decision.

I already made my decison. I went biformat a year ago. I prefer red though.
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post #37 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipvideo View Post

Well I hope they don't take their time releasing news if it will work with existing hd dvd players. Would be nice for the studios to know about it so they can make decisions about what movies and extras to put on it. Plus it would help fence sitters make a decision.

I already made my decison. I went biformat a year ago. I prefer red though.

The studios already know about the TL51 and the TL Twin - they sit on the Steering Committee and review all the documentation that was done by Datarius during the testing phase. The are held to the NDA's that exist but they have to see the data so they can vote on it.
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post #38 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 07:41 PM
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The studios know about the details of TL51 and Twin implementation.

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post #39 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

The studios know about the details of TL51 and Twin implementation.

So is it Kosty? . . . . or Kostyboy now?
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post #40 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 07:53 PM
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Kostyboy???

I have a better prediction record than a certain BB77 I know of.

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post #41 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 07:55 PM
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I just am going back to some CEDIA conversations I had on this issue. I've had no new information on this subject for over a month.

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post #42 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

I just am going back to some CEDIA conversations I had on this issue. I've had no new information on this subject for over a month.

Oh . . . OK. I believe you were upfront on what you had learned at CEDIA.

I had thought that the link to the Datarius "Blue Days" Seminar was some kind of additional info since CEDIA.

Glad to see that your sense of humor is 100% intact!

BTW if you go to the Datarius Website you will see that they are testing Holographic Media
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post #43 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Xbox 360 internal HD DVD drive anyone?

Lets say a new game came out for the Xbox 360 in 2009 that used a 51GB HD DVD disc. Or even a 15GB HD DVD disc. If you have an old Xbox 360 without a HD DVD drive in 2009 , you could always buy one for $49 or so to play your new box 360 game on.....

Brand extension of new Xbox 360 players to add a HD DVD drive, where existing ones could be upgraded by buying the add on drive.

Microsoft's sneaky patient version of the PS3 Blu-ray Trojan Horse.


there will be an internal hd dvd drive in the 360 but it wont be for games.

2010 will be the time frame for the next xbox . With 4-8 gigs of ram we will see the need for a 51 gig disc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton
Hey,

I think that the longer the technology is available the more people will realize uses for it.

My guess would be video games might require 51Gb.

As PC's catch up in performance to PS3 having a large capacity format to port popular titles over to PC would make it easier. (However, more then likely 50Gb Blu Ray would fill that need already.)

Another example could be people requesting hard copies from off line back ups. Like If I asked shutterfly for all my pix they would send multiple DVD's or potentially maybe a larger format once it's more of a standard.


-Brian

PCs passed the ps3 a long time ago .

Esp in the most important part when it comes to disc size and thats storage.

Today we see 256 , 512 and 1 gig video cards .

The 1 gig cards and the newest games require alot more space. The reason pc games get away with dvds still is because they are compressed to high hell since they dont have to stream them in real time from the dvd. They completely install on the hardrive.

Everquest 2 which i think is 2-3 years old now was 9 gigs . Today mmorpgs are aproaching 15 gigs

Lord of the Rings with out any updates and contant packs is 10 gigs .
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post #44 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

The studios know about the details of TL51 and Twin implementation.

So how long do we have to wait to get a pr if it will work on existing hd dvd players?

Or if it will work on them at all.
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post #45 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipvideo View Post

So how long do we have to wait to get a pr if it will work on existing hd dvd players?

Or if it will work on them at all.

How about tomorrow?

I will make it a point to call Datarius tomorrow (today actually) and ask them if part of their Verification and Testing procedures requires them to play the discs in off the shelf players - all generations.

They are on the West Coast so I won't be able to call them until after 12 Noon EST.

How's that?

Stay tuned. . . . .
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post #46 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

How about tomorrow?

I will make it a point to call Datarius tomorrow (today actually) and ask them if part of their Verification and Testing procedures requires them to play the discs in off the shelf players - all generations.

They are on the West Coast so I won't be able to call them until after 12 Noon EST.

How's that?

Stay tuned. . . . .

Sounds good to me.

In the last month the hd dvd side has been smokin with news. Hard to sleep. This is better than watching the 2000 election recount on tv.

This is exciting times for us HD fanatics with movie theaters in home. Gosh I have about 20 unwrapped hdm to still watch. Been reading so much lately. I did however manage to get a movie in with my father tonight. Now my wife and kid are watching Nemo in the theater as I type this.
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post #47 of 119 Old 11-15-2007, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

How about tomorrow?

I will make it a point to call Datarius tomorrow (today actually) and ask them if part of their Verification and Testing procedures requires them to play the discs in off the shelf players - all generations.

They are on the West Coast so I won't be able to call them until after 12 Noon EST.

How's that?

Stay tuned. . . . .

What makes you think they tested TL-51, and not regular HD-DVDs?
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post #48 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 12:27 AM
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post #49 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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We are going to have to wait till Monday. The person I need to talk with at Datarius concerning their testing procedures for the DVD Forum is on his way back to the West Coast from Austria.

He is the Vice President in charge of Engineering and Research and Development.

So again . . . stay tuned.
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post #50 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

We are going to have to wait till Monday. The person I need to talk with at Datarius concerning their testing procedures for the DVD Forum is on his way back to the West Coast from Austria.

He is the Vice President in charge of Engineering and Research and Development.

So again . . . stay tuned.

Great news Lee. This will clarify things a little.
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post #51 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 10:20 AM
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Question for Lee or Kosty, with Sony being on the DVD Forum how do the HD DVD backers keep their plans from their competitor? Do they do this at all? Is it a safe assumption that Sony would know if TL51 worked on all current HD DVD players if this information was submitted as part of the approval process?
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post #52 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efjay View Post

Question for Lee or Kosty, with Sony being on the DVD Forum how do the HD DVD backers keep their plans from their competitor? Do they do this at all? Is it a safe assumption that Sony would know if TL51 worked on all current HD DVD players if this information was submitted as part of the approval process?

All the Steering Committe members see the reports because they have to vote on the results. But those reports are protected by NDA's so anything they learn - they can't use as far as the media.

It may not specifically say within the report that the TL51 was tested on an A1, A2 and A3. I strongly doubt that. What the report shows is all the data that Datarius accumulates and measures with their test equipment. I believe there are blank forms of the report(s) on the DVD Forums website so manufacturers can see what is being tested before they submit a design.
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post #53 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

All the Steering Committe members see the reports because they have to vote on the results. But those reports are protected by NDA's so anything they learn - they can't use as far as the media.

It may not specifically say within the report that the TL51 was tested on an A1, A2 and A3. I strongly doubt that. What the report shows is all the data that Datarius accumulates and measures with their test equipment. I believe there are blank forms of the report(s) on the DVD Forums website so manufacturers can see what is being tested before they submit a design.

Thanks for the info, seems like a conflict of interest/unfair advantage with Sony being behind BR.
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post #54 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the info, seems like a conflict of interest/unfair advantage with Sony being behind BR.

You would think that would be the case because other than Warner - which HD DVD supporting companies are part of the BDA?

When it comes to the media . . "anything goes" seems to be the mantra . . but when it comes to business and money . . . "tread lightly" is definitely the course of action.

Look at all the partnerships that have existed between the HD DVD co.'s and the BD co.'s - like the CELL processor. Toshiba supplied the Emotion Chip for the original PS3's.
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post #55 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efjay View Post

Question for Lee or Kosty, with Sony being on the DVD Forum how do the HD DVD backers keep their plans from their competitor? Do they do this at all? Is it a safe assumption that Sony would know if TL51 worked on all current HD DVD players if this information was submitted as part of the approval process?

Sure, Sony knows more than we do. See this thread.
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post #56 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by awmurray View Post

Sure, Sony knows more than we do. See this thread.

You know, I forgot ALL about that. I thought Stringer might have only been making that statement because of Paramount and the sub $200 HD DVD players this season.

Learning about TL51 being compatible with all HD DVD players on top of all that should bring you down to earth.

Thanks for reminding us about that. I'm still waiting for official word though.
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post #57 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

Let's hope that never happens.

Adobe CS3 currently released on 5 DVD's (none of them are full 9GB) ... that would be 2 HD-DVDs or 1 BD. Do the math, especially if you are one of those that thinks that HD-DVD is uber cheap, compared to BD.

That's today, and just like games that have been growing 20+% year over year, BD only provides about a 2.5 year buffer over HD-DVD
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post #58 of 119 Old 11-16-2007, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ilka View Post

Adobe CS3 currently released on 5 DVD's (none of them are full 9GB) ... that would be 2 HD-DVDs or 1 BD. Do the math, especially if you are one of those that thinks that HD-DVD is uber cheap, compared to BD.

That's today, and just like games that have been growing 20+% year over year, BD only provides about a 2.5 year buffer over HD-DVD

My CS3 discs weren't handy to check, but CS2 only used about 16 gigs total over 5 disks, so I'm assuming CS3 would easily fit on a 30 gig HD DVD.
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post #59 of 119 Old 11-17-2007, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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THE DVD FORUM CHARTER

(3) The TCG shall coordinate activities of the Working Groups and submit technical proposals to the Steering Committee. The powers and delegations of the TCG shall include the followings:

(a) approval of adoption and publication of new DVD Formats or Revisions to the existing DVD Formats as proposed by Working Group(s), and submission of such proposals to the Steering Committee for final approval;

(b) final approval of adoption and publication of editorial and other minor changes to the existing DVD Formats (other than Revisions thereto) as represented by a change of the version number of the format in the third digit, which means that the new version of the format has a full compatibility with the existing version of the format;

(c) formulation and adoption of any operating rules and guidelines that are applicable to all the Working Groups;

(d) any other decisions concerning coordination of activities of the Working Groups.

http://www.dvdforum.org/about-charter.htm


RED: What does that mean?
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post #60 of 119 Old 11-18-2007, 12:07 AM
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(b) final approval of adoption and publication of editorial and other minor changes to the existing DVD Formats (other than Revisions thereto) as represented by a change of the version number of the format in the third digit, which means that the new version of the format has a full compatibility with the existing version of the format;

RED: What does that mean?

For example, using made up numbers, 1.3.2 is compatible with 1.3.1. 1.4.x may not be compatible with 1.3.x.

That seems more relevant to the old DVD stuff because not much if anything has been versioned as such with HD DVD. Seems to be all Major.Minor, not Major.Minor.Minorer (making up a term for the third digit).

Seeing as the TL51G stuff was well into the 1.x range when we first heard of it, I suspect it's version numbering originated in the TL45 specification that never really got off the ground. Don't really need to worry if 2.0 is compatible with 1.x for TL51G for the simple fact that nobody ever deployed anything TL51G yet, so there's nothing to be compatible to.

Now, that doesn't answer the question everyone keeps asking about whether any/all HD DVD players will work with TL51G, so we'll just have to employ a little more patience.
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