Well Balanced NY Times Article on Price Cuts - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's some quotes from today's NY Times:

HD DVD players have been cheaper than Blu-ray players for a while, and sales of standalone players have been strong. But Blu-ray has benefited from Sony's cachet among video enthusiasts, as well as the ability of the PlayStation 3 game console to play Blu-ray discs.

''While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer,'' said Yoshi Uchiyama, group vice president of digital audio and video at Toshiba America Consumer Products.

Toshiba also said it planned an extended campaign of TV, print and online advertising to promote the format.

The only error the Times made was they only referenced 2 of the 3 major studio's as exclusive to HD DVD and missed DreamWorks.

-Robert
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post #2 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 04:34 PM
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Ninja edit: Nevermind! Yours is from the Associated press that NY Times used....

Ignore

Hi Rob! Think you might have missed the other post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=976792

they mention tech consumers but yours is the NY Times

Do NOT let the magic smoke out because it is impossible to put the magic smoke back in!!!!
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post #3 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Toshiba also said it planned an extended campaign of TV, print and online advertising to promote the format.

Why the hell didn't they do this months ago. Their marketing is as bad as it gets! Even if they dropped prices to $100.oo on all their players, unless a lot of content comes out (at a bit lowered prices)..........forget it!
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post #4 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

The only error the Times made was they only referenced 2 of the 3 major studio's as exclusive to HD DVD and missed DreamWorks.

It's not an error; Dreamworks Studios was purchased by Paramount in February 2006, and is now wholly-owned subsidiary.

Dreamworks Animation Studios is a separate entity (not owned by Paramount) but is not a major studio.
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post #5 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moretothepoint View Post

And buying a product with no future is an even bigger deal breaker.

We must all remember there is still no guarantee that Blu-ray has a future either. If sales don't increase it could be the doorstop of 2009 as another product will sweep in and take the gold.

Google "CES 2008 Digital Downloads" and you'll see just how much all those same Blu-ray studios are talking about the future of movie distribution.
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post #6 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 05:09 PM
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Robert,

Do you offer a price (30/60/90 day) protection guarantee? If so, who antes up the money? What do you think BB & CC reaction will be?
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post #7 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 05:15 PM
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Folks at this point I do not care who is victorious as long as it is not downloads. I like the feel of having a disk that I own and I can feel. If Toshiba does pull a hail mary and annihilates the BDA or manages to become a viable choice and coexists with blu-ray cool. However the HW pricing while definitely a good thing for the consumer will not inspire other mainstream CE's to decide to jump in and compete with the prices that Toshiba has decided to sell there players now. I for one would like some choice and up until now it has been Toshiba and rebadges... If the combo's finally come up to snuff that is also possibility. It will be an interesting year for HDM.
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post #8 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRMOTA View Post

Folks at this point I do not care who is victorious as long as it is not downloads. I like the feel of having a disk that I own and I can feel. If Toshiba does pull a hail mary and annihilates the BDA or manages to become a viable choice and coexists with blu-ray cool. However the HW pricing while definitely a good thing for the consumer will not inspire other mainstream CE's to decide to jump in and compete with the prices that Toshiba has decided to sell there players now. I for one would like some choice and up until now it has been Toshiba and rebadges... If the combo's finally come up to snuff that is also possibility. It will be an interesting year for HDM.

It would be sad if HD DVD lost, but I just feel uneasy picking up a Blu-Ray player without a finished profile and the higher cost, which drives me nuts! No, I don't want a PS3, I want a stand-alone player
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post #9 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRMOTA View Post

Folks at this point I do not care who is victorious as long as it is not downloads. I like the feel of having a disk that I own and I can feel. If Toshiba does pull a hail mary and annihilates the BDA or manages to become a viable choice and coexists with blu-ray cool. However the HW pricing while definitely a good thing for the consumer will not inspire other mainstream CE's to decide to jump in and compete with the prices that Toshiba has decided to sell there players now. I for one would like some choice and up until now it has been Toshiba and rebadges... If the combo's finally come up to snuff that is also possibility. It will be an interesting year for HDM.

I myself am pretty excited about the prospects of digital distribution. I think most concerns can quickly be addressed, and I think it will surprise many how quickly digital downloads surpass HDM in sound/pq quality.

But true - Bluray isn't going anywhere even with the majority of studios. Too expensive, and as long as they don't have 100% studio support, it will scare away 90% of consumers.

Proud to always support Blu-Ray studios through Xbox Video Marketplace.
The "High Road" is a pretty boring place.
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post #10 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotheraviator View Post

We must all remember there is still no guarantee that Blu-ray has a future either. If sales don't increase it could be the doorstop of 2009 as another product will sweep in and take the gold.

Google "CES 2008 Digital Downloads" and you'll see just how much all those same Blu-ray studios are talking about the future of movie distribution.

I don't see Sony giving up the ghost in a couple years with Blu-ray. If history shows anything it's that Sony will support their product for years go come even if the public doesn't. For example, the cassette walkman. I bet you didn't know they still sold those. They did until a couple years ago. Sony Beta video. They support that to this day. DAT tapes? Yup, still supporting them. Minidisc? Considering I just purchased a unit late last year they're still supporting it. There's a multitude of products that Sony has brought out that the public didn't embrace but they still supported them for years.

Since Sony owns the movie division I highly doubt they'll stop making movies in Blu-ray in 2 years.
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post #11 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 05:57 PM
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[quote=moretothepoint;12814363]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post


''While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer,'' said Yoshi Uchiyama, group vice president of digital audio and video at Toshiba America Consumer Products.

/QUOTE]

And buying a product with no future is an even bigger deal breaker.

Is that really necessary??? It should be reported.
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post #12 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post




''While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer,'' said Yoshi Uchiyama, group vice president of digital audio and video at Toshiba America Consumer Products."


Well mainstream consumer isn't quite in the game yet. We're still in the early adopter stage. By the time it gets down to Joe Average player prices will have come down.

It's still more to do with the software. If people are gonna pay money for a player then they want movies to play on it.
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post #13 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 06:06 PM
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As has been stated elsewhere, Toshiba still has a warehouse or two full of these players, as well as budget dollars set aside for advertising this quarter. They're trying to get rid of them before they take an even bigger bath.

I'm sure the stores, both large and small, are also wanting to sell them off.

Robert, from a sellers perspective, if you order 10 HD-DVD player from Toshiba, and you can't sell them, does Toshiba credit you on a return to them? Or are you stuck with them?

I've always wondered what happened to the smaller retailers in that regard.

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post #14 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 06:06 PM
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[quote=giggle;12815091]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moretothepoint View Post


Is that really necessary??? It should be reported.

Go ahead, report me, for stating what I believe to be the case. And while you're at it, report the hundreds of other posters who do the same.
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post #15 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baccusboy View Post

As has been stated elsewhere, Toshiba still has a warehouse or two full of these players, as well as budget dollars set aside for advertising this quarter. They're trying to get rid of them before they take an even bigger bath.

I'm sure the stores, both large and small, are also wanting to sell them off.

Robert, from a sellers perspective, if you order 10 HD-DVD player from Toshiba, and you can't sell them, does Toshiba credit you on a return to them? Or are you stuck with them?

I've always wondered what happened to the smaller retailers in that regard.

I think it's pretty obvious based on the cheerleading as of late that someone is afraid they're going to get stuck with all those players...
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post #16 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 06:46 PM
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I found this article balanced and interesting:

Toshiba Refuses To Wave The White Flag In HD DVD-Blu-Ray War

It's likely that Sony over time would be willing to pay Toshiba to drop HD DVD, so the industry could focus on the one format and end consumer jitters, one analyst suggests.

By Antone Gonsalves
InformationWeek
January 14, 2008 03:13 PM

Toshiba, which recently suffered a major setback in its fight to dominate the high-definition movie format for DVDs, on Monday dropped the prices of its HD DVD players and said it would beef up its marketing campaign against the Sony-backed Blu-ray format.

At least one analyst, however, said Toshiba had little chance of winning, and its bravado was more likely an attempt to save face and create a better negotiating position against Blu-ray supporters who would like to see HD DVD go away as quickly as possible.

Balance of article at:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=205604607
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post #17 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 06:48 PM
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One of the few articles I've seen lately that doesn't call this a fire sale. Who knows...this could have been planned long before the beginning of the year.

Until Toshiba calls it a fire / clearance sale, I won't believe it.

I remember when Sony did a fire sale on their HD DVR back in 2006. They were selling a HD DVR priced originally at $999 through some retailers at $99. Now when the HD-A3 goes down to $30, you can call it a fire sale (10% of it's original MSRP)

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #18 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 06:49 PM
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People should consider their purchases carefully (however cheap on appearance) with the studio support situation in mind, of which Blu-ray has 70% market share. Even as an upconverting player, you probably already have one or have seen cheaper alternatives elsewhere.
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post #19 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 07:08 PM
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Bewilders me why HD DVD has such a weak advertising campaign compared to Blu-Ray. They are so complacent compared to Blu-Ray. All I ever see are HD PS3 Blu-Ray commercials during football games. Hardly ever see ads for HD DVD.

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post #20 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

Bewilders me why HD DVD has such a weak advertising campaign compared to Blu-Ray. They are so complacent compared to Blu-Ray. All I ever see are HD PS3 Blu-Ray commercials during football games. Hardly ever see ads for HD DVD.

Toshiba does not know the game at which they are playing. Sony has way more to lose and Sony acted accordingly. Toshiba did nothing to win...they could have offered 1 billion dollars.....now, thier only option is cheaper players and giving that 1 billion to Disney.

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post #21 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 07:37 PM
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Obviously, if the players don't literally fly off the shelves after this price cut, it is completely over. (I wouldn't be surprised if that is exactly the purpose: an ultimate attempt to see whether they can turn this thing, to convince Universal and Paramount to stay exclusive. Note that this is a Toshiba-only PR release.) And for now, it does not seem like it is working that great. In circuitcity.com, the A3 has already again lost its #1 spot in HD players.
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post #22 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

Toshiba does not know the game at which they are playing. Sony has way more to lose and Sony acted accordingly. Toshiba did nothing to win...they could have offered 1 billion dollars.....now, thier only option is cheaper players and giving that 1 billion to Disney.

Toshiba always seem to be a little behind. The problem is Sony has far more to lose because of the PS3, and I gyess they are trying to avoid these bidding wars with them.
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post #23 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 07:57 PM
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Why it it that every time there is a thread about HD DVD's strategy for trying to get back in the game, that the thread is bombarded with blu-ray backers who do nothing but spew gloom and doom??

I know it's in the HD software section, but come on it gets old after a while.

Instead of rubbing peoples nose in it why don't you plan your victory party?
Or don't you think you've won just yet??

Price cuts are a good idea, would have been a Great idea in November, but I hope it works!

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post #24 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wipron View Post

Why it it that every time there is a thread about HD DVD's strategy for trying to get back in the game, that the thread is bombarded with blu-ray backers who do nothing but spew gloom and doom??

I know it's in the HD software section, but come on it gets old after a while.

Instead of rubbing peoples nose in it why don't you plan your victory party?
Or don't you think you've won just yet??

Price cuts are a good idea, would have been a Great idea in November, but I hope it works!

Because they've declared it dead so many times they have to make sure.

"Is it dead yet? We keep killing it, but it just gets back up again! Shoot it again!"

I think consumers will catch eye on this in the weekly circulars and buzz will certainly be generated. The real question is can those folks that actually go into the B&Ms get through sales people directing them the other way.

At the very least, having complete featured 1080p HD disc players at $200 will make consumers ask why Blu-ray can't do the same. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
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post #25 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdog View Post

Toshiba always seem to be a little behind. The problem is Sony has far more to lose because of the PS3, and I gyess they are trying to avoid these bidding wars with them.

They're trying to avoid bidding wars with HD DVD SA's and Blu-ray SA's. So far the only Blu-ray standalones available for less than the PS3 are profile 1.0.

At best, the other CE companies don't want to charge any less than $399 for a player. At worst, they're purposefully trying to make sure they don't cut the PS3 out of the market.
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post #26 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon2k View Post

At the very least, having complete featured 1080p HD disc players at $200 will make consumers ask why Blu-ray can't do the same. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Since BD players all correctly output 1080p60, unlike the A20,A30 and A35, maybe consumers should ask why Toshiba can't do the same.

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-player...tag=prod.txt.1
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post #27 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 09:14 PM
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That's a question I wonder to myself. When MSRPs are halved, (a) what happens to the price in the retailer inventory (presumably they get credited with the delta on new sales)? (b) with big stores offering price protection, who pays for the customer's credit note for old sales? (c) with smaller stores how do they service their customers who bought in the last 15/30/60 days?
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post #28 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoban84 View Post

Since BD players all correctly output 1080p60, unlike the A20,A30 and A35, maybe consumers should ask why Toshiba can't do the same.

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-player...tag=prod.txt.1

Maybe consumers should ask why there are so many BD profiles? This **** gets old guys, we are here for the HDM and not any other reason.
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post #29 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 09:37 PM
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It would be nice to believe hardware price cuts and software deals would make a difference. What would really make a difference is some killer app movies on HD DVD. That means: Paramount and Universal mining their catalogue for some wide-ranging great stuff, both TV and movies, and releasing them with extras that drive home the Interactive capabilities.

Toshiba needs to consider releasing USB devices and extras like a wireless dongle that keeps the player online with a home network without the wiring (TiVo sells such a device for $59). Toshiba also needs to get in the face of its dealer network and make sure they understand Toshiba is really here to stay.

Toshiba should also consider working with smaller studios to bring a wealth of other content to market -- concerts, for example, or indie films -- a deal with Criterion, perhaps?

It's a long shot, but Toshiba has a narrow window to boost the installed base and generated a compelling user experience -- especially driving home the Internet connected titles that do something special.

Whatever amount of money Toshiba was thinking of putting on the table last fall to entice WB, they ought to start spending a significant amount of it today.

And it would be nice if Microsoft did something a tad dramatic like start pushing XBox HD DVD add ons (new price: $99?) and the great movie / internet capabilities current available.
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post #30 of 199 Old 01-14-2008, 09:44 PM
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The million dollar question with price cuts is - how many post-Warner announcement HD-DVD player sales are going to NEW HD-DVD consumers versus existing HD-DVD consumers with a content investment...... Those numbers would be extremely interesting (and revealing) to see!

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