Things that make you go Hmmm. Laserdisc Versus HDM - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
James R. Geib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
So HD-DVD is dead? Well, maybe not....

When was this phrase first uttered for the venerable Laserdisc? Care to guess how long Laserdisc titles were released, and just how many players sold?

Laserdisc was never 'popular' by today's standards of the word. An estimated 2,000,000 units were sold starting around 1978 and the final release on laserdisc was out of Japan in 2001, The Cell. Laserdisc was around for 23 years, and collectors continue to enjoy movies on their players. In fact, one can still purchase a new, in-the-box Pioneer player for Laserdiscs/DVD's.

How many total releases were there for the low-volume sales device? Over 47,000!


Based on these numbers, and the sales of HD-DVD players and software, I'd say HD-DVD will be around long after 2008 comes to an end despite Warner's decision.

Any takers? Do you think HDM via Blu-Ray will still be available new in even 15 years?

http://laserdiscplanet.com/museum2.html
James R. Geib is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 09:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sisko197's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Laserdisc had a lot more movie industry support than HD DVD has now. Even with low volume of player sales, you could get Star Wars, Jurassic Park on it.

HD DVD has just two movie companies supporting it and with dwindling overseas support drying up the import market; and the promise of Universal and Paramount looking to get off the Red Trainwreck in Progress before it makes them look like they picked the wrong technology (bad PR), I think HD DVD's movie choices will dry up far quicker.

I suspect the only market will be some limited DVD9 HD releases done by smalltime publishers, hoping for a quick buck.

I think you would be best served by buying a PS3 now and save yourself some heartache.
Sisko197 is offline  
post #3 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
oztech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 7,658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sisko197 View Post

Laserdisc had a lot more movie industry support than HD DVD has now. Even with low volume of player sales, you could get Star Wars, Jurassic Park on it.

HD DVD has just two movie companies supporting it and with dwindling overseas support drying up the import market; and the promise of Universal and Paramount looking to get off the Red Trainwreck in Progress before it makes them look like they picked the wrong technology (bad PR), I think HD DVD's movie choices will dry up far quicker.

I suspect the only market will be some limited DVD9 HD releases done by smalltime publishers, hoping for a quick buck.

I think you would be best served by buying a PS3 now and save yourself some heartache.

you beat me to it movie support the hd-dvd camp lacks their one major flaw.
oztech is online now  
post #4 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 10:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jpco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's interesting to note the LD numbers. IF there are eventually 2,000,000 HD DVD players moved, and IF it is inexpensive to replicate HD DVD, does anyone see a scenario where studios begin publishing on HD DVD once the war is over? I know it doesn't seem to make sense right now, but once the stakes are reduced for actually "winning" the war, why couldn't there be a secondary market for HD DVD?
jpco is offline  
post #5 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 10:30 AM
Member
 
pellucidity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post

It's interesting to note the LD numbers. IF there are eventually 2,000,000 HD DVD players moved, and IF it is inexpensive to replicate HD DVD, does anyone see a scenario where studios begin publishing on HD DVD once the war is over? I know it doesn't seem to make sense right now, but once the stakes are reduced for actually "winning" the war, why couldn't there be a secondary market for HD DVD?

Laserdisc was the premium alternative to VHS. It did that job well.

Blu-ray or HD DVD was going to be the premium alternative to SD DVD. Either would do that job well, not both. Blu-ray wins.

Result:HD DVD is left as a solution looking for a problem.

There is basically no difference between the formats, and going forward replication costs are going get smaller. Would you really save a dollar a unit and limit your audience? There are already 10x as many playback devices if you count the PS3, and BD standalones have pulled ahead. What does HD DVD have to offer at this point?
pellucidity is offline  
post #6 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fpconvert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: w. mass
Posts: 1,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post

It's interesting to note the LD numbers. IF there are eventually 2,000,000 HD DVD players moved, and IF it is inexpensive to replicate HD DVD, does anyone see a scenario where studios begin publishing on HD DVD once the war is over? I know it doesn't seem to make sense right now, but once the stakes are reduced for actually "winning" the war, why couldn't there be a secondary market for HD DVD?

There most certainly could be a secondary market but it will be internet based as B & M stores are not going to want to deal with low sales high cost inventory.
fpconvert is offline  
post #7 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 10:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cavalierlwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post

It's interesting to note the LD numbers. IF there are eventually 2,000,000 HD DVD players moved, and IF it is inexpensive to replicate HD DVD, does anyone see a scenario where studios begin publishing on HD DVD once the war is over? I know it doesn't seem to make sense right now, but once the stakes are reduced for actually "winning" the war, why couldn't there be a secondary market for HD DVD?

Yeah, I could see that. I believe the format war will be 'officially' over soon, Blu-Ray as winner will be dominant. But I can see where HD-DVD players could hit 2-3 million over the years, and every studio would decide to turn out 90% of new releases in HD-DVD format as well. Probably won't be available at every store, but places like Amazon.com will carry them. It's cheap to make them, assuming there's some profit in them, why not treat them like a little side venture.
cavalierlwt is offline  
post #8 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 11:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
At best in 6 months HD DVD will be left with 1/2 hearted low numbers of releases from just 2 major studios.
William is offline  
post #9 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 11:58 AM
Senior Member
 
BobRob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalierlwt View Post

But I can see where HD-DVD players could hit 2-3 million over the years, and every studio would decide to turn out 90% of new releases in HD-DVD format as well.

Not a chance in Hell. As long as HD DVD exists as a retail presence, it remains a threat to Blu-ray.

Like The Terminator, Sony et. al "absolutely will not stop until [HD DVD is] dead." Studio exclusivity contracts will eventually mandate this, if they don't already, and preclude any chance that HD DVD could ever rise up against Blu-ray once consumers realize that they've been duped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

you beat me to it movie support the hd-dvd camp lacks their one major flaw.

you should consider this punctuation its a wonderful thing it will help make you understandable also capitalization it also will help.

"War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; Blu-ray is Better."
BobRob is offline  
post #10 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Slim GoodBooty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillain View Post

Ya, you can still get 8 tracks as well. Enjoy your gospel hour and country music on HD DVD.

I would love to buy a new 8 track player and a Kings of Leon tape. Hook a brother up.
Slim GoodBooty is offline  
post #11 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 12:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pellucidity View Post

Laserdisc was the premium alternative to VHS. It did that job well.

Blu-ray or HD DVD was going to be the premium alternative to SD DVD. Either would do that job well, not both. Blu-ray wins.

Result:HD DVD is left as a solution looking for a problem.

There is basically no difference between the formats, and going forward replication costs are going get smaller. Would you really save a dollar a unit and limit your audience? There are already 10x as many playback devices if you count the PS3, and BD standalones have pulled ahead. What does HD DVD have to offer at this point?

If you presume one format winning means the total extinction of another format, then so be it. I was mentioning the possibility of there being enough penetration of HD HVD hardware to create a viable secondary market, just as might be created by other modes of delivery, such as electronic.

True, there are 10x as many playback devices if you count the PS3. The problem for CE manufacturers could be the inability to really compete with the PS3 in the long run and Blu-ray becoming a PS3 format.

I was just floating a thought. I also wasn't talking about limiting your audience because I was talking about a secondary format that's pretty much fully supported coexisting with the winner, which looks to be Blu-ray.

If you step back from all of the hyperbole and the my-format-or-die approach, you can see that either format can play movies very well and that coexistence, especially with internet retailing, would really bring harm to no one if each format could be produced, marketed, and sold at a profit.
jpco is offline  
post #12 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 12:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
underdog57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alburgh , VT
Posts: 823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Release on both , a sale is a sale ...
Laserdiscs were around $6.00 bucks brand new at the end.
They were around $40.00 or more for a long time .....

Bob

keep at it , results are worth it !!
underdog57 is offline  
post #13 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
James R. Geib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Some didn't read for comprehension! My point was, for TWENTY THREE YEARS, studios released films on Laserdisc, despite other POPULAR formats being available, a la VHS and ultimately DVD.

I see no reason to think HD-DVD won't be around for a long time, and if it proves viable for two major studios, and stand alone players continue to sell, it would only be prudent for other studios to release HD-DVD once standard DVD sales begin to fall. As we all know, conversion of standard DVD manufacturing to HD-DVD is a simple thing to do.

HD-DVD will be a thorn in BetaRay's side for quite some time. You naysayers can bet on it.

P.S. There are more than two movie studios supporting HD-DVD.
James R. Geib is offline  
post #14 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 01:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
William's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by James R. Geib View Post

...
P.S. There are more than two movie studios supporting HD-DVD.

Majors are what really counts and there are only 2 plus they are both limping to the finish it out line. Look how they have really stood up and supported HD DVD when it's down and needed it most by announcing a whopping 0 extra new releases. HD DVD's is THE new Beta (of course I have my fair share of them).
William is offline  
post #15 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 01:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
fitprod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bay Point, CA
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by James R. Geib View Post

Some didn't read for comprehension! My point was, for TWENTY THREE YEARS, studios released films on Laserdisc, despite other POPULAR formats being available, a la VHS and ultimately DVD.

I see no reason to think HD-DVD won't be around for a long time, and if it proves viable for two major studios, and stand alone players continue to sell, it would only be prudent for other studios to release HD-DVD once standard DVD sales begin to fall. As we all know, conversion of standard DVD manufacturing to HD-DVD is a simple thing to do.

HD-DVD will be a thorn in BetaRay's side for quite some time. You naysayers can bet on it.

P.S. There are more than two movie studios supporting HD-DVD.

The market dynamics have changes since the launch of Laserdisc & VHS. When LD were introduced into the market, collecting movies to own was in it's infancy. During the 80's renting VHS was the standard, while buying LD's was establish as a niche market. Both VHS & Laserdiscs were a ancillary market that added to the studio bottom line, which was primarily derived from theatrical revenues.

Shift to the early '90's... VHS started to become a sell through format, while LD's chugged along as the ancillary market. Most importantly, the studios began to rely on the home video market for most of their profits, since their production budgets began to spiral out of control, negating most of their revenue from theatrical releases. (Please note that all the while until around 1993, Paramount kept announcing a limited amount of Beta releases... I remember Tommy Boy actually being promoted... But what company actually stocked this title on Beta.)

When DVD was starting to be pushed around 1995, yes two years before the actual launch, VHS revenues were starting to flatten as the format became more of a commodity, and it was time for something new. At the time there were two competing discs formats, one pushed by Sony, the other Toshiba. Eventually cooler heads would prevail and an un-easy compromise for disc structure was made. If I remember correctly, Sony's dual-layer design was incorporated into the specs that Toshiba originally designed, which was only single layer.

1997 comes, and for the first year or so, it's spotty then... Blam! DVD takes off an becomes the standard, destroying both the laserdisc and VHS markets.

Around 2000, and the rumbling about a HD successor to DVD are starting up, Sony (and the nine member BDA) is leading the way with their Blu-ray design, utilizing blue lasers. Then in 2002, at WB's urging, the HD DVD Forum, headed by Toshiba approves a HD successor called AOD. It was based upon using the existing red laser technology, storing HD content at 720P with higher compression... After re-evaluating, the HD DVD forum, without the approval of the BDA members, decides to adopt blue laser technology and Toshiba continues on their separate course, working with the old DVD disc structure.

Things change over the next few years and, in 2005, both sides attempt to come together in the fall of 2005, realizing two formats are not going to fly with the consumer, citing the disaster that was SACD & DVD-Audio. Things blow up at the last minute, wether you want to believe Microsoft was responsible is your choice, and we end up with the mess that were are just now sorting out.

No one wanted this mess, and now that the end can be seen, I'm fairly certain all parties (CE, Retailers and Studios) are going to resolve this silliness by July at the latest. HD DVD will be a non-factor by September when the 4th quarter buying season beings.

fitprod
fitprod is offline  
post #16 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 02:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
namechamps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by James R. Geib View Post

Some didn't read for comprehension! My point was, for TWENTY THREE YEARS, studios released films on Laserdisc, despite other POPULAR formats being available, a la VHS and ultimately DVD.

I see no reason to think HD-DVD won't be around for a long time, and if it proves viable for two major studios, and stand alone players continue to sell, it would only be prudent for other studios to release HD-DVD once standard DVD sales begin to fall. As we all know, conversion of standard DVD manufacturing to HD-DVD is a simple thing to do.

HD-DVD will be a thorn in BetaRay's side for quite some time. You naysayers can bet on it.

P.S. There are more than two movie studios supporting HD-DVD.

I guess what you don't understand is sometimes it is simpler than that. One side just loses. This is coming from one of the biggest supporters of HD DVD. I still believe HD DVD was the "better" format with right combination of required specs, universal platform, lower costs, easier replication etc. It didn't matter.

LD "survived" because it was never designed to replace VHS. VHS was a cheaper, low quality format for the masses and LD was a high quality format for AV enthusiast. By the time DVD came along LD had been around for 20 years. Even PQ couldn't save LD as it died very quickly after DVD.

LD could compete against VHS simply because VHS sucked.

HD DVD for all intents and purposes is EQUAL TO Blu-ray. There is simply no reason for HD DVD to survive once Blu-ray has 100% of studio support and $199 players. I think HD DVD will limp along until end of this year at best and then go away.

It doesn't serve a niche like LD did. Just looking at LD and saying it worked for LD so it will "work" for HD DVD is meaningless. HD DVD doesn't do anything that BD can't do (with BD 2.0 profile).

Now I am not saying that BD "should have won" or that BD doesn't have issues that need to be resolved. It simply did win.
namechamps is offline  
post #17 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 02:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Damnationdoormat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,982
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The only question is, will current HD/BD players physically last as long as LD players in terms of durability!

I have a couple LD players spanning a number of decades and they all can at least play a disc reliably. That's not to say they couldn't use some fine tweaking, but for spinning large, heavy discs and some even doing crazy stuff like being ability to flip the entire pick-up assembly to play B-sides, most LD players are like Sherman tanks!
Damnationdoormat is offline  
post #18 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 03:27 PM
Member
 
pellucidity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpco View Post

If you presume one format winning means the total extinction of another format, then so be it. I was mentioning the possibility of there being enough penetration of HD HVD hardware to create a viable secondary market, just as might be created by other modes of delivery, such as electronic.

True, there are 10x as many playback devices if you count the PS3. The problem for CE manufacturers could be the inability to really compete with the PS3 in the long run and Blu-ray becoming a PS3 format.

I was just floating a thought. I also wasn't talking about limiting your audience because I was talking about a secondary format that's pretty much fully supported coexisting with the winner, which looks to be Blu-ray.

If you step back from all of the hyperbole and the my-format-or-die approach, you can see that either format can play movies very well and that coexistence, especially with internet retailing, would really bring harm to no one if each format could be produced, marketed, and sold at a profit.

I'm just trying to explain to you that LD vs VHS has almost no similarity to the current format war. As has been pointed out, LD was entrenched as a niche format by the time VHS shifted from primarily rentals to retail, and remained there. It had the enthusiast market to itself. The nuts who now populate AVS (said with affection!) would drop their VHS in the trash if a film became available on LD, or just wait. We're talking about very different PQ and AQ possibilities.

And now? Can you really say with a straight face that Blu-ray and HD DVD
offer anything very much different to each other? This isn't VHS-LD, this is VHS-Beta.
pellucidity is offline  
post #19 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
James R. Geib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


HD DVD for all intents and purposes is EQUAL TO Blu-ray. There is simply no reason for HD DVD to survive once Blu-ray has 100% of studio support and $199 players.

Here's where I disagree with you. If Toshiba gets another million players out there, that's more than two million reasons for HD-DVD to survive. From a business standpoint it simply makes sense, at least for a while.
James R. Geib is offline  
post #20 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 04:16 PM
Member
 
pellucidity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 176
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by James R. Geib View Post

Here's where I disagree with you. If Toshiba gets another million players out there, that's more than two million reasons for HD-DVD to survive. From a business standpoint it simply makes sense, at least for a while.

They sold a lot of Beta players too.
pellucidity is offline  
post #21 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 04:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Thebarnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 3,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitprod View Post

The market dynamics have changes since the launch of Laserdisc & VHS.

No one wanted this mess, and now that the end can be seen, I'm fairly certain all parties (CE, Retailers and Studios) are going to resolve this silliness by July at the latest. HD DVD will be a non-factor by September when the 4th quarter buying season beings.

fitprod

Loved reading your post. It's all just how I remember it. And your right, no one really wanted this mess and it's like were're finally going to be able to move forward with the new HD home video format.

One thing that was not mentioned was the kind of short lived HD movies on D-VHS. I really liked the idea, however like many, I did not like the fact that it was a tape based format...I think we all had enough of media on tape. Moving on, I remember that once D-VHS movies were available, it pretty much jump started the HD formats on disc...probably a good year or two before they were really ready to be available as a working consumer product. DVD was strongly gaining in popularity and the idea of a tape based HD format being the new HD format did not go over well with other companies. I remember it being like a week after the D-VHS announcement, there was announcements of the new disc based HD format, just so they would not be left behind.

Personally I think that the disc based HD formats came out sooner because of this. I think it took the Blu-ray people by surprise. Anyway, I'm glad to have a new HD format that's sooner rather than later and I'm glad to see like you say...this whole mess being sorted out.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!
Thebarnman is offline  
post #22 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 05:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
namechamps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by James R. Geib View Post

Here's where I disagree with you. If Toshiba gets another million players out there, that's more than two million reasons for HD-DVD to survive. From a business standpoint it simply makes sense, at least for a while.

I guess we will need to agree to disagree. I spent a lot of time & money on HD DVD. I authored the FAQ on HD audio and have answered a lot of technical questions on this forum and others so this isn't an easy decsion but Warner killed HD DVD. Right now it only matters will Toshiba go quickly or try to stall BD.

2 (even 3-4) million is a negligible amount. Of those 2 million how many are now purple or leaning towards going purple? How many will be buying larger number of blue titles over next year? How many will stop buying HD DVD completely if univ/para go neutral? I had 0 interest going Blu until Warner's announcement. I see lots of people both in retail stores and in BD player forum in the same boat. How many of those 2 million are buying HD DVD as a 2nd player or as an upconverter? Beta had 25 million players sold at the time Sony started making VHS players and that wasn't enough to keep Beta content on retail & rental shelves.

LD despite 20 years on the market and 100% support of AV enthusiasts was killed off in 1-2 years after launch of DVD. HD DVD has no "niche" and will be replaced much faster.

BTW I still have my HD-XA2 and have found some amazing used HD DVD deals on ebay. My titles will not stop working but I am a "reality boy" not a fanboy.
namechamps is offline  
post #23 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 05:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpco's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pellucidity View Post

I'm just trying to explain to you that LD vs VHS has almost no similarity to the current format war. As has been pointed out, LD was entrenched as a niche format by the time VHS shifted from primarily rentals to retail, and remained there. It had the enthusiast market to itself. The nuts who now populate AVS (said with affection!) would drop their VHS in the trash if a film became available on LD, or just wait. We're talking about very different PQ and AQ possibilities.

And now? Can you really say with a straight face that Blu-ray and HD DVD
offer anything very much different to each other? This isn't VHS-LD, this is VHS-Beta.

I never said it had similarity to LD and VHS. The OP just led me to post something I'd been thinking about.

I will say with a very straight face that HD DVD is currently the more finalized spec, with features that can be sure to be accessed on every disc, including the internet connection and more specificity in audio codec support. I can also say with a straight face that Blu-ray offers more bandwidth and overall storage possibilities. Blu-ray could match HD DVD in its areas of superiority some day, where with current technology HD DVD likely will not be able to match Blu-ray, especially in bandwidth.

My point, though, was that what HD DVD could offer at some point this year is a market of 2 million movie buyers, and if they represent a profitable market comparisons to Blu-ray would not really matter.

I'm not saying this will happen or that it really should happen. The relationship to LD is that there is a niche market that survived for more than 20 years. If it can make money, it may sustain. If not, it won't.
jpco is offline  
post #24 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
James R. Geib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:


BTW I still have my HD-XA2 and have found some amazing used HD DVD deals on ebay. My titles will not stop working but I am a "reality boy" not a fanboy.

I'm right there with you. I'm waiting on my 5 free HD-DVD's, and I own Planet Earth thanks to a birthday gift. The only disc I've paid for with my own money was Serenity, because I loved the movie. I'm no fan boy either. I will not be buying any other HDM's right now because I have 300 other movies I don't watch anyway! I really enjoy music concerts more than movies right now because my system was designed around music first.

When the dust settles I'll buy HDM's again, and if a title I want is on bluray and prices are reasonable, I'll add another component to my Lovan rack! If HD-DVD is still around and there is a title I like on that format I'll buy that to.

I've no doubt there will be players available for both formats for a while. And regardless of bluray sales over the next few years, HD-DVD will still be here for a while. Even if every studio abandoned HD-DVD tomorrow, titles will be available used and new from overseas for a long time.

I'll buy whatever works for me at the time.....
James R. Geib is offline  
post #25 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 06:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rdclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia Vicinity
Posts: 4,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by pellucidity View Post

They sold a lot of Beta players too.


They sold a lot of Beta decks at a time when time-shifting was the primary purpose for owning a VCR. Then movie rentals became the reason to buy a VCR. When studios stopped releasing pre-recorded movies on Beta, it disappeared quickly.

You can't use an HD-DVD player to play home-brewed HD-DVDs, because there are no HD-DVD burners. You can't use it to play movies released after (let's say) the end of 2008, because there won't be any.

HD-DVD is BetaMax. Sad but true.

Wide Awake

on the Edge

of the World

 

rdclark is offline  
post #26 of 430 Old 01-19-2008, 10:25 PM
Senior Member
 
Hockeytown Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hockeytown MI
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by pellucidity View Post

They sold a lot of Beta players too.

And it was supported untill 2001

Help a Family in need, Show Them We Care! Like it on Facebook and tweet it!
http://igg.me/p/171832?a=874546
Hockeytown Fan is offline  
post #27 of 430 Old 01-20-2008, 02:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cavalierlwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRob View Post

Not a chance in Hell. As long as HD DVD exists as a retail presence, it remains a threat to Blu-ray.

Like The Terminator, Sony et. al "absolutely will not stop until [HD DVD is] dead." Studio exclusivity contracts will eventually mandate this, if they don't already, and preclude any chance that HD DVD could ever rise up against Blu-ray

I have to give you credit for the excellent 'Terminator' reference!
cavalierlwt is offline  
post #28 of 430 Old 01-20-2008, 04:21 AM
 
ruadmaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillain View Post

Ya, you can still get 8 tracks as well. Enjoy your gospel hour and country music on HD DVD.

You talk as if the Warner decision is irrevocable. What happens if they change their mind. An awful lot of HD DVD players are being sold. Just what if they would make more money selling HD DVD instead of BD. How long do you think they would stay Blu exclusive? I doubt there are very many people in this world willing to pay $400.00 for a Blu DVD player at this time. Sorry, I don't see Blu as winning.
ruadmaa is offline  
post #29 of 430 Old 01-20-2008, 04:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
theforce8686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruadmaa View Post

You talk as if the Warner decision is irrevocable. What happens if they change their mind. An awful lot of HD DVD players are being sold. Just what if they would make more money selling HD DVD instead of BD. How long do you think they would stay Blu exclusive? I doubt there are very many people in this world willing to pay $400.00 for a Blu DVD player at this time. Sorry, I don't see Blu as winning.

But they are winning. They have been winning for over a year now. People and studios are dropping HD left and right. 85:15 was last weeks sales ratio. What about that makes you think that BD isn't winning?
theforce8686 is offline  
post #30 of 430 Old 01-20-2008, 04:56 AM
 
ruadmaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

But they are winning. They have been winning for over a year now. People and studios are dropping HD left and right. 85:15 was last weeks sales ratio. What about that makes you think that BD isn't winning?

What makes me think that BD isn't winning. The $400.00 price tag. Sorry, there are an awful lot of HD dvd players being sold.
ruadmaa is offline  
Reply HDTV Software Media Discussion

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off