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post #1 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I had a small dinner party last night and decided to show off my projector and sound system after a few of the guests asked about it. I arbitrarily pulled out "Ghost Rider" on BD and played it via my PS3. Everyone was absolutely "wowed"- so far, so good.

Then a couple of guests asked about the difference between DVD and HDM (I have both). I spent a few of minutes talking about the sharpness, contrast, resolution, etc. and ended up voluteering to show the difference to them. Well, here's where it got tricky. I have the SD of Ghost Rider as well and put it in my Toshiba A3 for comparison. By this time only the guys were left with me and we opened a bottle of wine and started looking at both versions. Lo and behold, the difference was minimal at best to all in the room. Needless to say, questions followed like "How much for that PS3?" and "How much are the disks again?" My only saving grace was really the sound levels between the two. With GR outputting Linear PCM and the A3 doing DD on the SD side (Upconverted to 720P), everyone at least ooh'ed and ah'ed over the perceived sound difference.

My PJ is a 720P Panasonic AE900 on a 100" grey high contrast screen (1.85:1) and I use a Marantz SR-8001 to the projector all via HDMI. The projector is ISF calibrated.

Surely most of you have done the same test with friends! I am sure that something must be wrong as the A3 is good but is not rated that good, nor have I read that Ghost Rider is a demo quality SD disc.

Suggestions?

On a side note: the A3 is the quietest player I have ever connected. I have to crank the sound to about 10 units higher than the same disc on the PS3. Is that die to the PS3 converting everything to Linear PCM?

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post #2 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:29 PM
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It depends on the movie, some isnt that good on HD that you can see any major differences.

Demo a different movie.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #3 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:31 PM
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Did you say your projector is only 720? Maybe that is the problem.
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post #4 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:33 PM
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1080p vs 720p.. no comparison.. that was your problem. I don't care how many people tell me 1080 to 720 isn't that much difference.. it's night and day to me.
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post #5 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:33 PM
 
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Welcome to the problem with HDM. The A3 is a damn good DVD player and most regular folks just can't see the difference.
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post #6 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theforce8686 View Post

Did you say your projector is only 720? Maybe that is the problem.

Nope, you can see a clear difference on that, u just need to pick a title that really shines (as you would on a 1080P display aswell)

The best is the titles that 3D pop.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #7 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:34 PM
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yes,pick up a 25 dollar dvd player that won't upconvert,just for demo purposes.

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post #8 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:35 PM
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I am one who finds HD media to be a marked improvement in almost all cases, even on very small screens. A few months ago I was in Ultimate Electronics, and in their "high end" theater room, they were projecting Ghost Rider. I watched for about 5 minutes, and for the life of me, I couldn't tell if it was HD or SD. I had to go over the the player to see that it was the Blu-ray.

I know it doesn't mean much, but since you had that experience with that movie, I thought I'd share.
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post #9 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:36 PM
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Chronicles of Riddick.

Thats a difference.

Good movies are as rare as an on topic discussion.
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post #10 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:37 PM
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Go 1080P, get a larger screen and sit closer.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #11 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:43 PM
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1080p, larger screen, closer, and watch it sober
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post #12 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:48 PM
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The PJ probably hid compression artifacts present in the SD version. If your display had been LCD or plasma they would have seen more of a difference. Seriously I have a 480 projector that makes 700 mb xvids look just as good as DVDs.

It isn't the size of the disk that counts, but how you use it.

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post #13 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30XS955 User View Post

The PJ probably hid compression artifacts present in the SD version. If your display had been LCD or plasma they would have seen more of a difference. Seriously I have a 480 projector that makes 700 mb xvids look just as good as DVDs.

700 mb Xvids do look like DVDs.
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post #14 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 03:53 PM
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Agree with others issue is the 720p projector. I too find with an upscalled SD DVD and a HD-DVD on a 720p projector its difficult to tell difference but HD-DVD on a 1080p is night and day.

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post #15 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

Nope, you can see a clear difference on that, u just need to pick a title that really shines (as you would on a 1080P display aswell)

I concur - I can readily tell the differences on my 720P older vintage (than the AE900) Panasonic.

to the O/P:
Steer clear of source that is CG or CG related i.e. green/blue screen.

ted
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post #16 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 04:02 PM
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Following the advice from others in this thread will help, but the most important thing you can do is get new friends so there are no more witnesses to what happened.

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post #17 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 04:06 PM
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It's not so much that it's a 720p projector. The real problem is that the Panasonic AE900 uses smoothscreen technology in order to avoid the screen door effect that LCD projectors (720p and below) are known to have. This reduces sharpness, which makes high def titles appear slightly blurrier than they should. Because DVDs are at a lower resolution, it actually makes them look a bit better... so it's a tradeoff.

I had the AE700 at one point and while there was a difference between HD and DVD, it wasnt very noticeable. The AE900 was an improvement over the one I had, but it wasn't a big improvement. I went to the JVC RS-1 which was a significant step up because of black level, sharpness and resolution.

Just a note -- there are plenty of 720p displays that look much nicer than 1080p displays. Resolution is not the biggest factor. However, you may as well go with a 1080p projector if you upgrade.

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post #18 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 04:20 PM
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Ghost Rider looks great on BD, and 720p isn't the problem either...I owned the 900 when it came out and wasn't very impressed with it. I actually preferred my 1024 x 576 NEC HT510 to it in some ways. I'm still surprised you couldn't notice the difference though. Exactly what screen do you have?
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post #19 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 04:51 PM
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The PT-AE900U LCD projector (Panasonic) has been considered by many one of the best projectors ever made.
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post #20 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Surely most of you have done the same test with friends! I am sure that something must be wrong as the A3 is good but is not rated that good, nor have I read that Ghost Rider is a demo quality SD disc.

Suggestions?

Next time pop in Transformers into the A3 and skip to the desert scene and watch the jaws drop. Then tell them they can get the same player for $149.
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post #21 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotheraviator View Post

Next time pop in Transformers into the A3 and skip to the desert scene and watch the jaws drop. Then tell them they can get the same player for $149.

$128 just about everywhere.
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post #22 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:04 PM
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"Do not cast your pearls before swine...."
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post #23 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:08 PM
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"Do not cast your pearls before swine...."

Especially the swine whose been drinkin' wine.
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post #24 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:40 PM
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I've done the same sort of 'taste test' for non enthusiast consumers on 70" 1080p LcOS and 10' 1080p dlp projector.

The results were mixed at best. Some people are fairly impressed by the difference, some are strictly "meh" and a (very) few are really impressed.

Simple truth is most people like the difference but don't see it as a really big deal as enthusiasts do. There's a reason the industry needs a trojan horse to get HDM in the door...

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post #25 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:41 PM
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I would vote for the s letter to mean science.
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post #26 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

I've done the same sort of 'taste test' for non enthusiast consumers on 70" 1080p LcOS and 10' 1080p dlp projector.

The results were mixed at best. Some people are fairly impressed by the difference, some are strictly "meh" and a (very) few are really impressed.

Simple truth is most people like the difference but don't see it as a really big deal as enthusiasts do. There's a reason the industry needs a trojan horse to get HDM in the door...

Good point. Presumedly, people will get used to watching HDM in their trojan horses and not want to go back.
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post #27 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSol View Post

The PT-AE900U LCD projector (Panasonic) has been considered by many one of the best projectors ever made.

Give me a break. Maybe one of the best projectors under $2k ever made, but thats leaving a lot of room for improvement.
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post #28 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:54 PM
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Got one.
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post #29 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 05:56 PM
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So far I've shown 5 of my neighbors all at different times my HT with HD DVD. The matrix, Transformers, Shooter and Hot Fuzz were the movies I showed them. Three of my neighbors knocked on my door the next day asking where to buy an HD DVD player and the other two came over before the week ended for me to help them get HD DVD and set it up. Those movie's I listed are Excellent for demo material. While the Matrix ( Chopper scene on top of the buildings) and just about any part of transformers really showed how awesome a quality surround sound system can be, I used Shooter, Hot Fuzz and Transformers to show High PQ. The Matrix does have great PQ but those three are better IMO. So far I'm 5 for 5 lol. every person that has seen my HT and HD DVD has went out bought one!

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post #30 of 113 Old 02-02-2008, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotheraviator View Post

Next time pop in Transformers into the A3 and skip to the desert scene and watch the jaws drop. Then tell them they can get the same player for $149.

That is my favorite part of the whole movie. The gunship shooting at the scorpion kicks butt.
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