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post #1 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, now that it is no longer a rumor (they are up on Amazon $599/$799) lets discuss.

Is a 2.0 GHz C2D sufficient to run EyeTV deinterlacing in "progressive scan" mode? Still hoping for a higher clock rate as BTO. Otherwise, with the FW800 & NVIDIA graphics they have hit the sweet spot.
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post #2 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:39 AM
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Still no HDMI!? Not even as BTO?
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post #3 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:42 AM
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This is the only spec I see that gives me any concern on buying the cheap one and upgrading myself ($200 for 1G of RAM and HD space ?!?!?!)

NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 128MB of shared DDR3 SDRAM
vs
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB of shared DDR3 SDRAM

how is this handled (and can it be end-user "adjusted")? (on a PC I think it would just be a BIOS setting?)

EDIT: store has the new Mini's, but the main apple page still has the old specs.
EDIT2: in the linux world, 256M is considered the threshold for VDPAU.. (GPU-acceleration of many many video formats).. not sure if this will make its way to the Apple side, but the results are staggeringly impressive.
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post #4 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesky View Post

Still no HDMI!? Not even as BTO?

They have DVI and display port. Not sure why it needs HDMI.
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post #5 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesky View Post

Still no HDMI!? Not even as BTO?

Display Port is in every way superior to HDMI. Sure, it would be nice if they shipped it with a Display Port to HDMI dongle. It would also be *very* nice if they sent digital audio via Display Port (without abandoning the optical TOSlink)
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post #6 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesky View Post

Still no HDMI!? Not even as BTO?

Mini-displayport will accomplish the same.. once the adapter from monoprice finally ships.

I've played with a Dell laptop with a displayport and it was simply a matter of inserting a $13 adapter in the DP and connecting the HDMI cable to that.

For a laptop that is only a mild annoyance.. for a desktop (as the Mini is), its an install-once-and-forget item IMO.
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post #7 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post

Display Port is in every way superior to HDMI. Sure, it would be nice if they shipped it with a Display Port to HDMI dongle. It would also be *very* nice if they sent digital audio via Display Port (without abandoning the optical TOSlink)

a) are you saying they don't? (I don't think so, but wanted to be clear)
b) yes if Apple finally supported DUAL audio output that would be nice.
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post #8 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Press release is up:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/03/03consumer.html

Quote:


The new 2.0 GHz Mac mini, for a suggested retail price of $599 (US), includes:

2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 3MB shared L2 cache;
1GB of 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM expandable up to 4GB;
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M integrated graphics;
120GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 5400 rpm;
a slot-load 8x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW);
Mini DisplayPort and mini-DVI for video output (adapters sold separately);
built-in AirPort Extreme wireless networking & Bluetooth 2.1+EDR;
Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000 BASE-T);
five USB 2.0 ports;
one FireWire 800 port; and
one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog.
The new 2.0 GHz Mac mini, for a suggested retail price of $799 (US), includes:

2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 3MB shared L2 cache;
2GB of 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM expandable up to 4GB;
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M integrated graphics;
320GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 5400 rpm;
a slot-load 8x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW);
Mini DisplayPort and mini-DVI for video output (adapters sold separately);
built-in AirPort Extreme wireless networking & Bluetooth 2.1+EDR;
Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000 BASE-T);
five USB 2.0 ports;
one FireWire 800 port; and
one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog.
Build-to-order options and accessories for the Mac mini include: a 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor, up to 4GB DDR3 SDRAM, 80GB, 250GB or 320GB 5400 hard drives. Additional options include: LED Cinema Display, Apple Keyboard, Apple Keyboard with numeric keypad, Apple Wireless Keyboard and Wireless Mighty Mouse; AirPort Express, AirPort Extreme Base Station, Time Capsule; Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter, Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter (for 30-inch DVI display), Mini DisplayPort to VGA Adapter, Apple USB Modem, Apple Remote, the AppleCare Protection Plan; and pre-installed copies of iWork '09, Logic Express 8, Final Cut Express 4 and Aperture 2.

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post #9 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:54 AM
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That's the whole point. Audio. I realize Apple doesn't care if I stick it in my A/V cabinet but it would have been very nice. I've been looking at receivers anyway so I guess I'll need a DP to hdmi dongle and an Optical cable and then set up a few macros for the remote and then................pita. Would an hdmi as a bto have been so hard?

I will be getting one those new iMacs though to replace my old iMac G5. Those are very nice even though they held off on the quad core chip.
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post #10 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesky View Post

That's the whole point. Audio. I realize Apple doesn't care if I stick it in my A/V cabinet but it would have been very nice. I've been looking at receivers anyway so I guess I'll need a DP to hdmi dongle and an Optical cable and then set up a few macros for the remote and then................pita. Would an hdmi as a bto have been so hard?

You'll have to excuse me as I have been (wrongly,my mistake) imagining this blended ATV/Mini device. Now I am so disappointed..sniff, sniff.
But wait! Aren't we due for a new ATV? Yes. Hope arises again.

Again, is it spec'd somewhere that audio is NOT carried over mDP? On my friends Dell laptop, audio was there.. it was a one-adapter-plus-one(HDMI)-cable connection.

EDIT: oh duh... mDP "for video ouput"... CRAP.
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post #11 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, now that we know the final specs, let me re-phrase the question:
Is a 2.26 GHz C2D sufficient to run EyeTV deinterlacing in "progressive scan" mode? How about if you are driving a higher than 1080P 30" Apple Cinema Display.

Speaking of which, we get almost everything, but STILL NO NEW 30" Apple Cinema Displays.
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post #12 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesky View Post

Would an hdmi as a bto have been so hard?

Yes, yes it would. That and it's totally unnecessary on a "low end" computer.
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post #13 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, store.apple.com is up. The maxed BTO (2.26 CPU & 4GB RAM) is $1049.
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post #14 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post

OK, now that we know the final specs, let me re-phrase the question:
Is a 2.26 GHz C2D sufficient to run EyeTV deinterlacing in "progressive scan" mode? How about if you are driving a higher than 1080P 30" Apple Cinema Display.

What's the part # on the C2D?

For the $150 can you go get yourself something (much) faster at newegg and do the upgrade yourself? (I did it several times on my previous Mini)
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post #15 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

Yes, yes it would. That and it's totally unnecessary on a "low end" computer.

I knew it was a real outside possibility. How many would they sell to guys like me who want to put one in the A/V chain anyway? Probably not many. Oh well, at least they didn't kill it and the video card is pretty nice. It's all good, they're still fun to play with.
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post #16 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 06:13 AM
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Oh well... it wasn't even worth that wait for us HTPC guys.
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post #17 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 06:16 AM
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Quote:


Is a 2.0 GHz C2D sufficient to run EyeTV deinterlacing in "progressive scan" mode?

Ted, I'm going to give you a tentative yes on this point, since we can't know for sure, but since my 2.0 C2D "Santa Rosa" Macbook with 4GB RAM, the X3100 and the WD 320GB Scorpio Black inside CAN do EyeTV's progressive--and this mini will have even faster bus and RAM plus much better graphics. The key, I think, is just getting away from the GMA 950.

Quote:


Oh well... it wasn't even worth that wait for us HTPC guys

You're kidding, right? This mini is everything we Mac HTPC guys could want for the price...just buy the base model and put your own RAM and hard drive inside.
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post #18 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chefklc View Post

...just buy the base model and put your own RAM and hard drive inside.

I just ordered the base model but upgraded the processor. I will add more RAM but I don't know about the hard drive. I am planning on getting a NAS so I just may leave the stock drive in there.
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post #19 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post

Oh well... it wasn't even worth that wait for us HTPC guys.

Isn't the big gain for HTPC use the new 9400m video? The Intel 950 graphics in the previous Gen mini was a serious bottle neck to playing 1080p video, right?

I suppose HD audio is the biggest issue facing the new Mini. But really, it was never very likely that apple was going to include the ability to bitstream HD audio because of no blue ray. But there will should be some way, with an adapter of sorts I would speculate, to get at least 5.1 audio out of the new mini.
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post #20 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 07:12 AM
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Quote:


Isn't the big gain for HTPC use the new 9400m video?

yes, I think so...look, the complaints all along about the mini have been that Apple never really gave us a mini that was comparable to a Macbook--it was always a year or two behind or crippled in some artificial way. Not being able to fully address 4GB RAM, "g" wireless, the GMA 950, a crap Matshita combo drive, you name it. Finally, they've thrown us HTPC folks a nice bone--for the same $599 price you get:

1) the 9400M, with a 256MB option,
2) a superdrive (though whether it's a decent Pioneer or a crapshita, I guess we'll find out soon enough)
3) BOTH the mini-display port and mini-DVI (plus they throw the $19 mini-DVI to DVI adaptor in, which is very un-Apple-like) which just might mean real support for two displays,
4) "n" wireless finally
5) full 4GB RAM support plus
6) it gains FW800 rather than having firewire removed.

Really, there's nothing to complain about here--you still want to use your old HDTVs, just go mini-DVI out, you want to avoid mini-displayport for a while, go right ahead.

And built-in optical out has been just fine for us. After all, just how forward-thinking do you want Apple's $599 bait and switch upsell machine to be?
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post #21 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 08:31 AM
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Any thoughts on how the mini would handle two displays? I'd like to rackmount it, with a monitor attached to one of the video outputs and run the other video output to my pre-amp. The monitor in the rack would be devoted to adding and organizing media and the output to the pre-amp would be for Plex / DVD Player.

Will the outputs be mirrored only? Or true dual display? Able to handle different resolutions?

Thanks.
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post #22 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbfreq View Post

Any thoughts on how the mini would handle two displays? I'd like to rackmount it, with a monitor attached to one of the video outputs and run the other video output to my pre-amp. The monitor in the rack would be devoted to adding and organizing media and the output to the pre-amp would be for Plex / DVD Player.

Will the outputs be mirrored only? Or true dual display? Able to handle different resolutions?

Thanks.

straight from the specs
Quote:


# Extended desktop and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports up to 1920 by 1200 pixels on a DVI or VGA display; up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on a dual-link DVI display using Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter (sold separately)

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post #23 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 08:36 AM
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I'll be curious to see the cooling inside this beast.... folks in the PC-building crowd have had a heck of a time with the 9300/9400 based mobos.
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post #24 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 08:37 AM
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Unless there is software to drive the video acceleration hardware, the 9400M is a wash for video performance. IMHO. Also, as I read the specs, 256MB is not an option, it's an artifact of the 2G base memory of the $799 unit. And 256MB is a minimum, not maximum. It probably kicks for 3D, however.
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post #25 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chefklc View Post

...
3) BOTH the mini-display port and mini-DVI (plus they throw the $19 mini-DVI to DVI adaptor in, which is very un-Apple-like) which just might mean real support for two displays,
....
And built-in optical out has been just fine for us. After all, just how forward-thinking do you want Apple's $599 bait and switch upsell machine to be?

There is no maybe about it: at Apple.com they specifically say that it works with dual displays. And from what I can tell the Display Port (but not the mini DVI) will drive a 30" ACD or other "dual link DVI" type display. You could hook up one 30" ACD AND one 1080P HDTV to the new MacMini. Pretty impressive.

As far as the audio, of course 5.1 works just fine via optical out. BD based "HD" audio? I think the lack of a Blu-ray drive or BD playback support in Mac OS X are far bigger obstacles. (And, IMO, screw "HD" audio -- it is nothing by a marketing gimmick to convince you to accept ever more draconian DRM instead of just putting LPCM audio (or full bit-rate DTS) which can be sent out over optical. I know all of you have golden ears, but I sure won't be able to hear the difference).
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post #26 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 08:52 AM
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I don't have golden ears, but I can tell the difference between uncompressed audio and 1.5mb/s audio. aside from the two extra channels of course

I've been waiting a long time for this update. Is it perfect? No. Can I build a "better" one for less? Probably. Could I build one that is this small, runs as cool and looks as good in my cabinet? No way...

I guess I'll take one for the team and upgrade now. Does anyone have a preference on what program to use to stream DVDs? I have a file server in a different room with over 1.5TBs of free space. I'm not worried about storage in the mini, just want to use it to stream stuff. I was planning on using XBMC.
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post #27 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 08:59 AM
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So, how do I get video and audio from this new mac mini to two separate displays?

I want to put the mac mini in a cabinet below my main room TV. There it will be hooked up to an LCD tv on the wall and a surround receiver in the cabinet.

I'd like to also have the mini hooked up to a TV in a nearby bedroom. No surround or anything in there, just want to hook up the mini audio/video directly to the back of the TV.

any suggestions for optimal setup?
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post #28 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcolom1 View Post

So, how do I get video and audio from this new mac mini to two separate displays?

I want to put the mac mini in a cabinet below my main room TV. There it will be hooked up to an LCD tv on the wall and a surround receiver in the cabinet.

I'd like to also have the mini hooked up to a TV in a nearby bedroom. No surround or anything in there, just want to hook up the mini audio/video directly to the back of the TV.

any suggestions for optimal setup?

Video is obvious -- just run connections from the Mini to each display. Audio -- optical to your receiver and hook up an AirPort express to TV for audio (with Rogue Amoeba's Airfoil software to get non-iTunes based audio in there). Second option -- run audio out from the receiver to the second TV.
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post #29 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timharte View Post

I don't have golden ears, but I can tell the difference between uncompressed audio and 1.5mb/s audio. aside from the two extra channels of course
...
I guess I'll take one for the team and upgrade now.

I'd hardly call it taking one for the team -- I'd have ordered a new Mini already if the Display Port based 30" ACD was released.

LPCM *is* uncompressed audio, there are DVDs with LPCM, and it can be sent via optical. But it is my fault for bringing up audio -- audiophile debates are the way to ruined friendships and oblivion.
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post #30 of 193 Old 03-03-2009, 10:28 AM
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I don't see what all the excitement is about. Until Snow Leopard implements a way to take advantage of the GPU for full 1080p hardware acceleration, that 9400M is going to be sitting there doing nothing.

I think people are under the impression that the GPU is always doing something with the video. That's unfortunate, as it makes people excited over things like this.

Whats even more unfortunate is that Plex (my HTPC frontend of choice) doesn't seem to have hardware acceleration in its roadmap....


To sum it up, they could put a full on GTX295 GPU in a Mac Mini (theoretically), and it would not matter at all for full 1080p playback UNTIL there is software in place to take advantage of said GPU and offload video decoding duties to it.
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