How-To: MacOS X Firewire HDTV recording - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2181 Old 06-06-2004, 11:54 PM
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Is this still the best thread to use to get started or does the synopsis thread have all the necessary links? The 600+ messages in this thread is quite a bit for someone who has not been following this.

I did a search for 10.3.4 in both threads and did not find any matches, so I assume this question has not been raised. I have this version on my G5 and am not sure if I should download SDK 19. This appears to be the latest but from what I see is intended for 10.3.3. If I download SDK 19 I'm wondering if that would replace any 10.3.4 components with 10.3.3.

I also read a few messages about issues with SDK 19 versus 18, and have not seen if the questions have been resolved.

At this point I'm not sure what to do. Appreciate any suggestions.

John
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post #632 of 2181 Old 06-07-2004, 01:26 AM
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You should be fine with 10.3.4 (it was Panther itself that had the correct APIs.) The SDKs are needed if you want to use the various Firewire apps (DVHSCap, VirtualDVHS, A/VBrowser, etc.), no need to install the extra packages (that was for those running Jaguar.) As for 18 vs 19, 19 just has some more recent builds of the aforementioned apps.

erik g
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post #633 of 2181 Old 06-07-2004, 07:30 AM
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Well, I've made my first recording this weekend and was only midly successful!

The recording actually went fine (AFAIK), but playback has been a bit of an issue. Any pointers or suggestions will be appreciated....

The recording path was: SA3250->PowerBook G3 (Lombard) w/FireWire CardBus card->SMB Shared drive (NTFS) over 100Mbit Ethernet.

I then tried to playback the file from the Windows machine it was actually recorded to. I used VLC 0.7.2 under Windows 2000.

The problems are that the m2t file doesn't play back audio except for the occasional stutter, and that movement seems to show tearing/interlacing artifacts. I'm guessing I have one (or more) of the following problems:

1) Writing the m2t file over a network connection to an SMB share didn't work well.
2) The stream is actually corrupt.
3) My playback machine isn't powerful enough to deal with the stream
4) My VLC settings are all screwed up.

I don't think the network is a problem. A test recording made by writing the m2t file directly to my local PowerBook drive exhibits the same problems when subsequently copied to the Windows playback machine and played.

I don't know how to check if the stream is actually corrupt, so any pointers there would be welcome. Also, I don't know what kind of hardware requirements I would need on a PC to playback one of these files. Lastly, VLC has a bazillion options when running on a PC, and I'm sure I can do some optimization there....

Any ideas?

Best,
Brad
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post #634 of 2181 Old 06-09-2004, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by bspachman
Well, I've made my first recording this weekend and was only midly successful!

The recording actually went fine (AFAIK), but playback has been a bit of an issue. Any pointers or suggestions will be appreciated....

The recording path was: SA3250->PowerBook G3 (Lombard) w/FireWire CardBus card->SMB Shared drive (NTFS) over 100Mbit Ethernet.

I then tried to playback the file from the Windows machine it was actually recorded to. I used VLC 0.7.2 under Windows 2000.

The problems are that the m2t file doesn't play back audio except for the occasional stutter, and that movement seems to show tearing/interlacing artifacts. I'm guessing I have one (or more) of the following problems:

1) Writing the m2t file over a network connection to an SMB share didn't work well.
2) The stream is actually corrupt.
3) My playback machine isn't powerful enough to deal with the stream
4) My VLC settings are all screwed up.

I don't think the network is a problem. A test recording made by writing the m2t file directly to my local PowerBook drive exhibits the same problems when subsequently copied to the Windows playback machine and played.

I don't know how to check if the stream is actually corrupt, so any pointers there would be welcome. Also, I don't know what kind of hardware requirements I would need on a PC to playback one of these files. Lastly, VLC has a bazillion options when running on a PC, and I'm sure I can do some optimization there....

Any ideas?

Best,
Brad

What's the specs on the windows machine you're using for playback? There could also be issues with the cardbus firewire card you're using. I'm not sure that anyone else has done this using that type of card.

rcliff
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post #635 of 2181 Old 06-09-2004, 08:13 PM
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Well, I've been using my basic PVR app for a few days now and am ready for some other people to use it, if interested. There is a lot it does not do yet, but I am looking to get some feedback on the core functionality that is there before I start enhancing it, particularly with devices I do not have.

So, if you are interested, are willing to make at least a minimal effort to describe the conditions under which things fail for you, will not be upset if something goes wrong and it does not record one of your programs (so far so good for me, but you never know), I'll make it available to the first one or two people who PM with a particular device or device combintation. Please let me know your source device (62xx/T165/SAxxxx/etc).

Right now you can
- Add recording events with name, start and end time, channel number, and device
- Change channels if it is a Motorola 62xx
- Override scheduled events with manual recording control
- Specify the record location.
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post #636 of 2181 Old 06-09-2004, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rcliff
What's the specs on the windows machine you're using for playback? There could also be issues with the cardbus firewire card you're using. I'm not sure that anyone else has done this using that type of card.

Starting with the early part of the chain, the FireWire card I'm using is a Western Digital card. I've had it for a couple of years now, and it generally works flawlessly. Knowing that CardBus is a 32-bit data path, I'm wondering if there's some limit here...

As for playback, I've got a Windows 2000 machine running a 1.8Ghz P4. The video card is a Radeon 7000 VE (I think). I'm definitely more comfortable in the Macintosh world, but there are just certain HTPC things that must be done with Windows

Anyone else using a P4 chip for m2t file playback? What kind of specs?

Best,
Brad
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post #637 of 2181 Old 06-11-2004, 12:18 PM
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Anyone have problems with glitches when moving to the 6208? I had perfect recordings with both 7.07 and 7.10 firmware on the 6200, but am getting horrible results with the 6208 with 7.07. There isn't a clean frame to be found for anyone channel at any bitrate.
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post #638 of 2181 Old 06-12-2004, 04:10 AM
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Expecting a FW Cable box to arrive today.

1) What is the reason for not using the SDK19 version? (Running 10.3.4)
2) Any tools for manipulating the .ts streams or combining .ts streams?

Thanks.
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post #639 of 2181 Old 06-12-2004, 05:56 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by kaadray
Anyone have problems with glitches when moving to the 6208? I had perfect recordings with both 7.07 and 7.10 firmware on the 6200, but am getting horrible results with the 6208 with 7.07. There isn't a clean frame to be found for anyone channel at any bitrate.

Yes, 7.07 on the 6208 yields glitched archives for all channels. I understand 7.10 on the 6208 resolves this. I spoke with someone at the headend about getting 7.10 but was told that it would come from the DAC. I understand that 7.10 is on the 6208 in the Boston area. So, it might be coming soon.

Regards,
Joe


Going "over the top" with OTA, Netflix, Drobo FS and Apple TV!
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post #640 of 2181 Old 06-12-2004, 01:07 PM
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I have a G5, 10.3.4. Downloaded SDK 19 (asked and was told in a response there were no problems with SDK 19).

My TV is a Mits WS65813, and source devices are 2 HD DirecTV TiVos, one connected via DVI, the other via component. I assume the source to the TV is not relevant to recording from the TV to the G5.

I have no problems getting the TV to recognize the G5. Once Virtual DVHS was started the first time with the connection to the TV, NetCommand recognized the new device and I followed the menu to add it. Now whenever I start Virtual DVHS, the G5 will show up as a 1394 DVCR in the Device List. (I believe this confirms I do not need AVC Browser to facilitate the connection.)

I have dragged a folder over the DVHS icon and confirmed its location in DVHS Preferences.

I have not put any parameters in the DVHS Screen such as Channel or Speed - if I am supposed to do that, I don't know where to get those parameters.

I have tried recording two ways without success.

First try, just assuming the Mit would automatically output source to the 1394 device, I selected the Record button on the right side of the DVHS window. Transport state indicated Recording, time started, and a file appeared in the Transport Streams Library but stayed at zero bytes.

Second try, I started DVHS to get the G5 recognized by the TV, and hit the record button on the TV Remote. Even though the 1394 DVCR is listed in the device list, NetCommand has not found a recordable device and I cannot do anything further from the TV.

Appreciate any suggestions,

John
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post #641 of 2181 Old 06-12-2004, 02:29 PM
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Quote:


Cannot get recording to work

The Mits TV will only let you record to the VirtualDVHS (or any other FireWire tape/disk) from the built-in OTA ATSC tuner, or from another FireWire device. You cannot record an analog or DVI signal, as there is no built-in HD MPEG encoder, which is what would be needed for streaming over firewire.

When using the Mits TV and the VirtualDVHS app, you will not need to interact directly with the transport controls on the VirtualDVHS screen. All transport control is handled via NetCommand from the TV.

-- FriarWyer
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post #642 of 2181 Old 06-12-2004, 02:58 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by FriarWyer
The Mits TV will only let you record to the VirtualDVHS (or any other FireWire tape/disk) from the built-in OTA ATSC tuner, or from another FireWire device. You cannot record an analog or DVI signal, as there is no built-in HD MPEG encoder, which is what would be needed for streaming over firewire.

When using the Mits TV and the VirtualDVHS app, you will not need to interact directly with the transport controls on the VirtualDVHS screen. All transport control is handled via NetCommand from the TV.

-- FriarWyer

I was afraid of that.

I guess my assumption "I assume the source to the TV is not relevant to recording from the TV to the G5." was more a hope.

Are there any devices around that will input both DVI and component containing HD signals, and both 1) output the same signals and 2) convert to firewire to pass to the Mit. or directly to the G5?

John
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post #643 of 2181 Old 06-16-2004, 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by Killroy
Is anyone using the Roku HD-1000 to stream .ts files from their Mac to the their TV or PJ??? How is the quality and how difficult is it to do??? Is the audio going through OK??? Does it handle DD 5.1??? I have read some people are doing it but they are using PC's so I am looking for a Machead...

Thanks

I don't do it very often at all, but it does work. Pretty sure I was getting 5.1 no problem. The OS x samba implementation may still leave something to be desired though. I would get audio dropouts while doing something on my machine (old G4) at the same time. Of course there are other issues around the HD-1000 hanging due to DHCP problems and lack of real built-in playback controls.

Scott
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post #644 of 2181 Old 06-17-2004, 04:31 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Killroy
OK...for the second time I have updated to 10.3.4 and my playback has been screwed up...I get really bad skips and sound problems.

For reference I am using an eMac 700 with VirtualDVHS from the Firewire SDK18. I playback to a Samsung T-165. I also record from a SA 3250 with no problems and the 10.3.4 update did not seem to have a problem in that department.

You might want to try SKD19--that is for Panther (18 was for Jaguar-aka 10.2.) Is your hard drive really fragmented, might be streaming too slow?
I haven't checked playback recently (with 10.3.4), but, I haven't heard others having problems, on this thread at least. The one thing is that it might be that the recording/stream is bad, and that it's trying to play back a bad stream? Can you play back clips in VLC? It would also be nice if you could play back with the SA (so far no cable box it two-way) to see if it's hardware or software.
There is a discussion in the 169time/AVX thread that the T165 chokes on even slightly 'corrupted' streams, so the VLC test might be good (though make sure you've got the latest VLC, and make the window half-size, so you have a hope of playing an HD clip--my 800MHz TiBook can barely play back 720P at full resolution.)

erik g
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post #645 of 2181 Old 06-18-2004, 10:08 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rcliff
The SA boxes will not output via firewire to Mits TVs right now. The SA box mutes the firewire output because the Mits does not correctly respond to emergency broadcast signals. I know this sounds crazy but apparently this is the problem now. I was told this should be resolved very soon but rollout times to various cable providers will likely vary.

rcliff, do you or anybody have updated information as to whether SA has resolved or addressed this issue?

Thanks,
Mark
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post #646 of 2181 Old 06-19-2004, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mpleone
rcliff, do you or anybody have updated information as to whether SA has resolved or addressed this issue?

Thanks,
Mark

I just checked and it seems to be fixed on my box now. There is an odd delay of about 10 seconds before a picture is shown on the Mits after switching to the SA device. I haven't tried recording yet but will shortly.

rcliff
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post #647 of 2181 Old 06-19-2004, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Recording from the SA4200HD to Virtual DVHS does work but the SA box seems to be very finicky about any changes to the firewire bus. Any time you change a connection anywhere on the bus or launch VirtualDVHS the box hangs for at least ten seconds and sometimes you need to change channels to restore the picture. Also, AVC browser will mute the firewire output when you hit connect. Fortunately you can still record with Virtual DVHS by manually changing the firewire channel from 0 to 1 before hitting record.

rcliff
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post #648 of 2181 Old 06-22-2004, 10:26 AM
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Cliff, does your SA4200HD use SARA? If so, what version is it using? Do the SA3250HD and SA4200HD use the same firmware?
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post #649 of 2181 Old 06-22-2004, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by mpleone
Cliff, does your SA4200HD use SARA? If so, what version is it using? Do the SA3250HD and SA4200HD use the same firmware?

SARA v 1.55.6.4 date 5/26/04
still firebus 2.5.7.1

The firewire implementation seems to be very flaky on this box,

rcliff
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post #650 of 2181 Old 06-24-2004, 03:30 PM
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Thanks to some great feedback from people from this thread, iRecord 0.2.6 is available for download. With a version < 1.0, it is still a work in progress, but should be useful for at some of you, particularly if you have a Motorola box. Please keep the feedback coming.

http://home.comcast.net/~macpvr/irecord.html
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post #651 of 2181 Old 06-28-2004, 07:05 PM
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This looks interesting:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500

"But I didn't do it...!"
"I knew you'd say that"...*BLAM!*
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post #652 of 2181 Old 06-29-2004, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by rezzy
This looks interesting:
http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500

Looks cool but it can only record OTA ATSC. It integrates with TitanTV for scheduling but only with it's internal tuner so there's no way to record cable or satellite.

rcliff
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post #653 of 2181 Old 06-29-2004, 03:43 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by rcliff
Looks cool but it can only record OTA ATSC. It integrates with TitanTV for scheduling but only with it's internal tuner so there's no way to record cable or satellite.

I suspect you have correctly summarized the situation with respect to cable and satellite. But if Elgato has been as careful with this device as it has been with previous products it may be the best solution for OTA HD on the computer. We'll have to wait for actual experience with it before reaching such a conclusion but their integration with TitanTV in previous devices is certainly better than what DVico provided. Since it runs on Mac OS X I don't expect to have a problem with crashing because I mistakenly launch another application. Currently VLC and FusionHDTV can cause XP to crash unless I log out and log back in after running VLC and before launching FusionHDTV.

I'm very interested in how they provide the viewer application on the Mac and how much computing power it requires. The current version of VLC is just slightly underpowered for displaying HD on my 450 MHz G4 Mac. I believe these guys are connected at Apple so I wonder if they have access to the H.264 codec that Apple has announced but only plans to ship with Tiger in '05.
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post #654 of 2181 Old 06-29-2004, 04:22 PM
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It integrates with TitanTV for scheduling but only with it's internal tuner so there's no way to record cable or satellite.

Yeah, but there's always the SDK.

Will try recording from eyeTV 500 and Virtual DVHS simulataneously via FW Cable and OTA of course when it arrives. We may be able to playback and edit our VirtualDVHS, MyHD, and HiPix captures with it. Software based playback is at the limit on my Dual 500 and will not work at full screen on my PBG4. Will now be able to compare how playback works with firewire based hardware tuner. It does NTSC too apparently. Which MyHD is struggling to do now.
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post #655 of 2181 Old 07-05-2004, 04:40 PM
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After following this thread for a couple months I've finally jumped into the fray with my gear. I've got observations and glitches/outstanding issues. First, Comcast Seattle dropped off a Motorola 6200 three days ago. That day, I got my Powerbook G4-1.25 to successfully record with the methods listed here, although I haven't used iCal yet.

kaadray, iRecord is a great piece of software with a lot of potential. It worked immediately on my PB. I have not, however, gotten it to work on my desktop Powermac G4-466 - or at least whatever it is producing on that machine will not open in VLC on either machine. I am getting proper bitrates and big files, but no image pops up and VLC just kind of "hangs" without doing anything. Using Virtual D-VHS on the desktop works, though. But as I said, on the PB, iRecord works great.

One question I have: is there a difference in the actual file format that is produced by iRecord vs. Virtual D-VHS? I notice one uses .ts, the other .m2t.

Second, the only way I could get any of this to work on my desktop machine was to remove a Macally PCI firewire card that I had in it. I couldn't connect to the Motorola 6200 using it, and as long as it was in the machine, although I could change channels with iRecord and AVC Browser, I'd get zero bitrate and empty files.

Finally - I want to archive some Tour stages onto DVD (yes, using this method is ridiculous seeing as how it's not in HD, but I didn't want to buy new hardware). I've gotten both DIVA and ffmpegX to transcode the transport stream to other formats (not sure if ffmpegX changed it to the RIGHT format) but as others have pointed out here, I'm still SOL on the audio. Maybe using a very slow Virtual PC process will be the only answer.
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post #656 of 2181 Old 07-06-2004, 09:39 AM
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Thanks for the feedback. It is always good to know what is working or not (hint to anyone who is using it and hasn't sent a message one way or the other )

I'm am not sure what is going wrong on the G4 off the top of my head (unless by chance you only selected 5c protected channels on that machine with iRecord, and happened to pick all clear channels with VDHVS and on the PB), but I'll think about it.

For the specific questions:

Quote:
Originally posted by quickdrawMX42000

One question I have: is there a difference in the actual file format that is produced by iRecord vs. Virtual D-VHS? I notice one uses .ts, the other .m2t.

Same file format. I noticed that VLC and some other PC apps recognized .ts and .tp, but VDVHS seemed to be the only app that used .m2t, so I changed the default extension.

Quote:

Second, the only way I could get any of this to work on my desktop machine was to remove a Macally PCI firewire card that I had in it. I couldn't connect to the Motorola 6200 using it, and as long as it was in the machine, although I could change channels with iRecord and AVC Browser, I'd get zero bitrate and empty files.

I'm not familiar with the machine - so there is a built in FW and you had a card as well? If so, I believe the FireWire libs handle this ok for asynchrounous connections (such as the tuning commands) so it just works, but for isynchronous (the streams) I am just looking at first interface I find so I am probably trying to make a connection on the wrong interface. I'll put it on the todo list to clean up, but I don't have a machine with two FW interfaces so I'm not sure what will happen
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post #657 of 2181 Old 07-09-2004, 06:10 PM
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I have a Moto 6208 with the 7.07 firmware hooked up to my 800MHz powerbook G4 and am able to record just fine. I noticed some dropped frames and a few glitches, but I surmise this will be fixed in the 7.10 firmware... My question is how can I get the 6208 to playback the .m2t files I have stored on my powerbook? It is underpowered and cannot playback the HD streams at their native resolution in VLC.

Sorry if this has been answered before, I read through the first 10 pages and noticed there was 25 more!

Sam
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post #658 of 2181 Old 07-10-2004, 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by SamMiller0
I have a Moto 6208 with the 7.07 firmware hooked up to my 800MHz powerbook G4 and am able to record just fine. I noticed some dropped frames and a few glitches, but I surmise this will be fixed in the 7.10 firmware... My question is how can I get the 6208 to playback the .m2t files I have stored on my powerbook? It is underpowered and cannot playback the HD streams at their native resolution in VLC.

Sorry if this has been answered before, I read through the first 10 pages and noticed there was 25 more!

Sam

You can't play back thru the STB. You need something like Roku's HD 1000 if you want to play it back on your TV or FP.

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post #659 of 2181 Old 07-14-2004, 11:08 AM
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I just recently hooked up an eyeTV 500 to my dual 500 Mhz/G4 which I then output to my Hitachi 5500 front projector.

The quality appears quite good and I don't have any issues either watching HD in live mode, or when playing back a stream. Its when you have two windows open at the same time that you get the herky jerky. I talked to one of the El Gato reps at WWDC this year to feel him out about how well my machine would handle it and he was very up front about the capbilities/limitations. Since the majority of my viewing is SD content from my two ReplayTVs and DVD content on my Mac, there shouldn't be much in the way of an issue about watching one show while recording another.

They also just came out with an update of the software (version 1.5) that I haven't tried yet.

The integration with TitanTV is pretty nice, though I hope they'll take advantage of the Safari web engine built into Panther and make this integrated more tightly with the product sometime in the future. So far so good!

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post #660 of 2181 Old 07-14-2004, 02:03 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by imlucid
I just recently hooked up an eyeTV 500 ... So far so good!

I apologize for being the bearer of possibly bad news. Seth Finkelstein announced in a discussion on Slashdot that the EyeTV 500 is Broadcast Flag compliant a year earlier than currently necessary. This means that others will decide what you can and cannot record. Oh, I know their shills will pop up and claim this has nothing to do with people making personal copies but I think there are more than a few cynics who see this as a first step to put the genie back in the bottle. The eventual goal being the elimination of fair use as a relevant fact. It will still be on the books but you will be in violation of federal "police state" laws like the DMCA (can you guess which side I favor?).

If it is true that the EyeTV 500 has implemented the anti-consumer "broadcast flag" one year early let's remind them who buys (or does not buy) their products by boycotting all BF compliant products.
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