How-To: MacOS X Firewire HDTV recording - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
>No, firewire is the critical mechanism for moving the stream to and from the Mac. Firewire is only >currently available for OTA and cable not satellite. The upcoming Dish 921 DVR may change that.

Unlike another poster who was going to buy an external Firewire 7200 rpm H/D, I already have one but looks like I'm going to be out of luck anyway. I made a point of checking that before posting my comment, Cliff, and the long awaited Dish 921 DVR does NOT have Firewire, 1394, etc. But even if it did, why even bother if the 921 essentially records satellite HDTV without it ?

I thought the 921 had "Dishwire" in which case if you do get one and if you already have a Mac, you can probe the output plug to see if you can record to the Mac.

Regards,
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post #92 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EatingPie
Now on another note... How 'bout some recommendations on firewire cable? I've searched the net, tons of firewire cables out there... but nobody talking about what's good.

-Pie

Pie,

Try Pacific Cables. Here's a part number . Local stores will typically have the 4 to 6 pin variety. Your box, SA 3250 if I recall correctly, has a 6 pin port. I have had good luck with their DVI cable, which was monstrously cheaper.

Regards,
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post #93 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsb_hburg
I thought the 921 had "Dishwire" in which case if you do get one and if you already have a Mac, you can probe the output plug to see if you can record to the Mac.

I stand corrected. I was looking for the Firewire symbol, since they showed the USB symbol by a port without the caption, and sure enough they have two Dishwire "audio/video connection ports for interface with select IEEE 1394 products." Now we have to find out which "select" products they're referring to. If the Dish 921 can record HDTV to a PVR, I don't think I would bother recording to the Mac, unless of course I wanted a DVD copy of some important program for posterity. Nice to know that after all the expense at least I could achieve that objective, unless "Big Brother" says that a No-No too. Problem is the Dish 921 hasn't made its way to the Great White North.......yet.
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post #94 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dozens
Like I said I will report tonight on my success. I will be recording the Bruins on INHD2.

My drive is 7200 RPM so hopefully it is enough. How should I format that drive so that I can share it with windows and macos ? I am a mac newbie so if I need to format it there please give me some detailed steps

MacDrive can be found here . I have not tried it out but the software is supposed to permit a Mac user to connect his Mac-formatted hard drive to a Windows machine as opposed to using a network connection to share files. Mac OS X user would format the drive using the HFS+ (Mac OS Extended) for use on the Mac. MacDrive 5 would be installed on the Windows machine that would be connected to the Mac-formatted drive in order to browse the files in Windows Explorer, etc. You can connect using Firewire or USB 2.0, assuming one or both ports are installed.

You can also network the drive. You can set up the share for the external drive using the pointers provided in previous posts. Again, this drive can be formatted as HFS+.

Of course, if this drive is to be dedicated for use with VirtualDVHS, HFS+ is the way to go.

A faster Firewire drive would mitigate or eliminate glitches introduced by the Mac. I am not sure about glitches present in the transport from the headend to the STB.

Regards,
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post #95 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 03:52 PM
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I second the recommendation for MacDrive 5. It's the best way to share large FireWire drives between Mac and Windows platforms.
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post #96 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 06:45 PM
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I just finished recording the Bruins on Comcast's INHD2 (1080i broadcast) without a single overrun error. As recommended here I used an external firewire drive (80 gig, 2 mb cache). During the game I was getting 17-18 mb/sec

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post #97 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
But even if it did, why even bother if the 921 essentially records satellite HDTV without it ?

For archiving the content. The closed hard drive (not removable/changeable limits to the built in confines. I ran out of space in a couple weeks of things I wanted to archive before I sold the unit. The lack of progress in turning the FW on is typical Dish.

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post #98 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
I made a point of checking that before posting my comment, Cliff, and the long awaited Dish 921 DVR does NOT have Firewire, 1394, etc. But even if it did, why even bother if the 921 essentially records satellite HDTV without it ?

It will indeed have firewire but whether or not it will work with Virtual DVHS is unclear. The fact that it is a DVR and can record HD makes offline archiving even more important because disk recording capacity is greatly reduced even on 250GB hard drives. While you can store 200+ hours of SD recording on a 250GB disk, you can only record 30 or so hours of HD. Having a means to archive via firewire is a big plus IMO.

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post #99 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Regarding all the posts about firewire hard drive speeds, I haven't seen any performance problems with a variety of firewire drives ranging from 30 to 120 GB and 5400 to 7200 RPM. I've also had good results with internal ATA drives. The bottleneck should not be the drive there. Internal Powerbook drives may be the exception. I'll try to do some tests with my iBook tomorrow.

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post #100 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsb_hburg
Good luck and it should work especially if you click on the Output Plug Signal Format button on the AV/C Device window and the response is Implemented/Stable.

No luck in this regard, but I have had luck in another arena.... and I still have a hard time believing this!! First, a list of equiptment.

Mitsubishi 73711 TV
SA 3250HD Cable Box
JVC HM-D30000U D-VHS
Powerbook 15'' Aluminum, Panther 10.3.3

Originally, I had everything networked through the TV. None of this worked out for me. But the cable guy came out and we swapped cable (!!) like crazy. After breaking the TV out of the chain, we ran the Cable Box to the rear Firewire port of the D-VHS Deck. Then we ran the component outs of the JVC to the TV. Lo and behold, we got a picture! I could even record HBO-HD!!

I then ran my Powerbook to the front Firewire port on the D-VHS deck, and lo and behold, I could record!! Just set VirtualDVHS to Channel 63, and pressed record... behold disk space disappearing at an alarming rate!

Now here's the strange part. This was the only configuration that worked! Powerbook to 2nd Port on the 3250, no go. TV to 3250, no go. TV to front port on D-VHS, no go. (The TV hates this box... I'll be calling Mitsubishi.)

Only one configuration worked....

3250 --> rear D-VHS -- front D-VHS --> Powerbook

Putting the TV anywhere in the chain killed it. Powerbook anywhere else killed it.

I find this whole thing very strange indeed! First off, the D-VHS can decode the rear firewire in and output HD through its component outs... even when NOT recording! And then the only way I can record to the Powerbook... through the front port on the D-VHS! Strange strange strange.

Guess this is what I get for being the first (and only) TWC San Diego customer using firewire!

Any ideas? Anything else I should check for some insight?

-Pie

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post #101 of 2181 Old 04-07-2004, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rudolpht
For archiving the content. The closed hard drive (not removable/changeable limits to the built in confines. I ran out of space in a couple weeks of things I wanted to archive before I sold the unit. The lack of progress in turning the FW on is typical Dish.

That's why I mentioned recording to DVD for archiving, but now you say that Dish hasn't even turned on their Dishwire connections. I wondered about the nomenclature, why they didn't use the Firewire symbol or even the word Firewire on those two connections. Will we ever see manufacturers even strive to standardize for the consumer's benefit ?
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post #102 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EatingPie
No luck in this regard, but I have had luck in another arena.... and I still have a hard time believing this!! First, a list of equiptment.

Mitsubishi 73711 TV
SA 3250HD Cable Box
JVC HM-D30000U D-VHS
Powerbook 15'' Aluminum, Panther 10.3.3

Originally, I had everything networked through the TV. None of this worked out for me. But the cable guy came out and we swapped cable (!!) like crazy. After breaking the TV out of the chain, we ran the Cable Box to the rear Firewire port of the D-VHS Deck. Then we ran the component outs of the JVC to the TV. Lo and behold, we got a picture! I could even record HBO-HD!!

I then ran my Powerbook to the front Firewire port on the D-VHS deck, and lo and behold, I could record!! Just set VirtualDVHS to Channel 63, and pressed record... behold disk space disappearing at an alarming rate!

Now here's the strange part. This was the only configuration that worked! Powerbook to 2nd Port on the 3250, no go. TV to 3250, no go. TV to front port on D-VHS, no go. (The TV hates this box... I'll be calling Mitsubishi.)

Only one configuration worked....

3250 --> rear D-VHS -- front D-VHS --> Powerbook

Putting the TV anywhere in the chain killed it. Powerbook anywhere else killed it.

I find this whole thing very strange indeed! First off, the D-VHS can decode the rear firewire in and output HD through its component outs... even when NOT recording! And then the only way I can record to the Powerbook... through the front port on the D-VHS! Strange strange strange.

Guess this is what I get for being the first (and only) TWC San Diego customer using firewire!

Any ideas? Anything else I should check for some insight?

-Pie

Pie,

It sounds like you know one way to record to the Mac.

If you do not mind, please check these steps. As you know, I would like to revise the scripts to make a version for the SA3250.

1. Connect only the Powerbook to the 3250 while both the 3250 and Powerbook are powered off. Take JVC out of the chain.

2. Power on the 3250 and then the Powerbook.

3. Launch VirtualDVHS.

4. Launch AVC Browser

5. Once VirtualDVHS has loaded the transport library, highlight the 3250 by clicking on it in the AV/C Devices list and click on the Open Device Controller button.

6. Click on the Output Plug Signal Format button and copy and paste the Received AV/C Response from the log in a reply post.

7. Confirm that the value in the Ouput Plugs field is 1.

8. Change the channel number to 0 in the Channel dropdown menu just below the Output Plugs and its corresponding field.

9. Click on the Connect button in the Output Plugs section copy and paste the Response from the log in a reply post.

10. Change the channel on the recorder side of VirtualDVHS to 0 and then click on the record button and recording activity should begin.

Please report what happened and the responses in steps 6 and 9. If successful, it would great to see a JPG of the entire AVC Browser AV/C device controller window for the 3250. Please report the name of the device that appears in the window title bar, "AV/C Device: ????????"

If it does not work, then try these steps again (beginning at Step 8) using channel 63 in AVC Browser and VirtualDVHS. Let us know what happens. If recording works, stop recording and change the channel to 0 (beginning at step 8) to see if recording will work at channel 0. Let us know what happens.

My 6200 will record while the programs are set to any channel. I keep it at 0. But, in the beginning, the 6200 required channel 1 and then allowed a channel change to 0. Your 3250 might be acting in the same way.


If you can get it to work through the JVC, you should get it to work with out the JVC unless other factors are at play. If all else fails, then go back to what works for your set-up, of course.

Regards,
Joe


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post #103 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Killroy
Hey Joe,

I am trying to do something different with my t-165...

Is there any way to do a scheduled record without going through the STB's scheduling menu...meaning...is there a way to make the Mac's AV/C Device control or Virtual DVHS activate the start/stop recording on the t-165...

I have tried a few trial and errors but it does not seeem to be working...

I had a T165 but returned it this week. It was a buggy BB closeout special. If you are trying to use the 6200 scripts, some of them will not work with any other device, especially Launch & Record and Refresh & Record. You could use Record and Stop as I tested these two scripts manually from the AppleScript menu before returning the T165. Let me know what the exact title of the second AVC Browser device controller window is and I can then revise the scripts for the T165. You would have to manually tune the T165 to the right channel ahead of time, though. However, AVC Browser should not be required to use the T165 where the T165 is the only AV/C tuner connected via Firewire to the Mac.

In VirtualDVHS, try channel 63 or 0.

Regards,
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post #104 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Killroy
I tried channel 0 & 63 but nothing happened...

AV/C control shows the t-165 as "SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS" (no quotes)....

If you could edit that script for me and let me play with it I would appreciate it...I am having problems with the t-165 not launching when the timer was set...so I was hoping that your script would solve that problem.

Thanks

I will work on it this evening.

Regards,
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post #105 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Killroy
...I am having problems with the t-165 not launching when the timer was set...so I was hoping that your script would solve that problem.

I don't have a T165 myself but from other discussions here I've heard some details that have been well confirmed. The problem with getting the T165 to start a recording at the proper time seems to be caused by stations that are being sloppy or incomplete in their handling of their clock. One of the items included in the digital signal from an ATSC station is the correct time and Samsung made the unfortunate design decision to rely inflexibly on the correctness of that source.

If you make an attempt to contact the technical staffs at Phoenix stations, you might be able to convince them it is worth their effort to get their clock signal working properly. It would be even more fortunate if all stations would get PSIP implemented so our program information could be more accurate and not dependent on an internet connection but that is just crazy talk.
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post #106 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 09:43 AM
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I've got the SA 3100HD STB and a Toshiba 50H82 TheaterWideHD neither of which has Firewire - I do have a shiny new Dual 2Ghz G5 though. Can anyone offer advice on how I might make this happen? Thanks in advance.

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post #107 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cooknn
I've got the SA 3100HD STB and a Toshiba 50H82 TheaterWideHD neither of which has Firewire - I do have a shiny new Dual 2Ghz G5 though. Can anyone offer advice on how I might make this happen? Thanks in advance.

You need to ask Comcast for an HD set-top-box with Firewire.

Regards,
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post #108 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Killroy
I actaully contacted all the local affiliates last month and had them all correct their times (to the network times) and they did within a few days...but that still has them as far as two minutes off to each other...so its a little hard to coordinate back-to-back shows if they are on different networks...

BUT...my problem is that the t-165 will turn itself on (why it needs to be off is beyond me) and sets itself to the right channel but it fails to launch the VirtualDVHS app to start the recording.

Funny thing is that if I have three shows schedule or the same night it may work on the first two and fail the third one, or it may work on the first and third, or it may only work on the third one and completely miss the first two...

It is very random...so If I can get the Mac to start the recording using iCal and Joe's scripts hen I can bypass the silly scheduling system on the 165....

To be clear, the 6200 scripts do not change the channel on the STB. I am sure iRed could be scripted but I don't have iRed.

Regards,
Joe


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post #109 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsb_hburg
You need to ask Comcast for an HD set-top-box with Firewire.

Easier said than done I'm finding. I called Comcast twice and both time received different info. The first lady told me the only HD STB's they had were the SA3100 and the Pace 550. No Firewire. Then I called back and asked if I could have an SA3250HD and was told that they could not do it, but that they did have that STB. Crazy.

Is there any way around the STB?

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post #110 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cooknn
Easier said than done I'm finding. I called Comcast twice and both time received different info. The first lady told me the only HD STB's they had were the SA3100 and the Pace 550. No Firewire. Then I called back and asked if I could have an SA3250HD and was told that they could not do it, but that they did have that STB. Crazy.

Is there any way around the STB?

There's no way to record without a firewire STB. Keep pushing Comcast and talk to a supervisor. There's an new FCC mandate that requires them to provide firewire upon request. The trouble is most people at these cable companies are slow to get the news about any product changes and won't know what your talking about.

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post #111 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 11:19 AM
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Thanks I will. I was just reading about that mandate BTW

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post #112 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rcliff
There's no way to record without a firewire STB.

There's a saying: "Forewarned is Forearmed". Too bad when we went shopping for the so-called latest technology in HDTV sets and STBs that we weren't apprised of the importance of the Firewire requirement essential in the capability to record the same HDTV.

I guess the electronic industry always keep themselves apprised of "the unsuspecting consumer" and the axiom "what they don't know won't hurt them" and when they ultimately do find out, then " sell them another box." I guess they regard it as what keeps the wheels of industry turning. Too bad the same philosophy doesn't apply to our disposable income.
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post #113 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 12:54 PM
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Just got a call from a supervisor at Comcast. I'm getting an SA3250 tomorrow

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post #114 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Great! Where there's a will, there's a way.

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post #115 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 01:07 PM
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LOL thanks for providing the will The guy at Comcast said that I really knew my stuff. Heh. I told him that I hung with guys on the 'net that did

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post #116 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jgvp
... Too bad when we went shopping for the so-called latest technology in HDTV sets and STBs that we weren't apprised of the importance of the Firewire requirement essential in the capability to record the same HDTV. ...

First, I want to say I was happy beyond reason when Apple started supporting AV/C protocols over FireWire in their system software and frameworks. But I suspect all of this activity is at cross purposes to some powerful trends in the HDTV world. I would certainly encourage everyone to do what they can to take advantage of this opportunity while it lasts.

My concern is that when the broadcast flag directive goes into effect in the summer of 2005 the devices shipping with a FireWire interface will "go dark" for existing unencrypted FireWire devices. If you don't have 5C (ie encrypted) capability in your FireWire interface then you won't be able to connect to new devices even though the cables will still fit.

So, in a sense, the lack of awareness in your salesman might have the unintended effect of sparing you eventual frustration. The limited good news is that it seems unlikely that legacy devices will stop working. So those few who adopt early enough, seek out the right features, and keep the no longer available equipment working, they will have in the digitial future the same freedom to record that we had in the analog past.
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post #117 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cooknn
Just got a call from a supervisor at Comcast. I'm getting an SA3250 tomorrow

What is a SA3250 ? I thought COmcast used DCT 6200.

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post #118 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by SBryan
First, I want to say I was happy beyond reason when Apple started supporting AV/C protocols over FireWire in their system software and frameworks. But I suspect all of this activity is at cross purposes to some powerful trends in the HDTV world. I would certainly encourage everyone to do what they can to take advantage of this opportunity while it lasts.

My concern is that when the broadcast flag directive goes into effect in the summer of 2005 the devices shipping with a FireWire interface will "go dark" for existing unencrypted FireWire devices. If you don't have 5C (ie encrypted) capability in your FireWire interface then you won't be able to connect to new devices even though the cables will still fit.

So, in a sense, the lack of awareness in your salesman might have the unintended effect of sparing you eventual frustration. The limited good news is that it seems unlikely that legacy devices will stop working. So those few who adopt early enough, seek out the right features, and keep the no longer available equipment working, they will have in the digitial future the same freedom to record that we had in the analog past.

I would tend to agree with this analysis. Stock up now on legacy devices and there should be support for quite some time even after 5C becomes reality. I can't see cable companies replacing their existing STB base and I'll bet they'll have spares if yours fails. New installs will probably require new boxes though. Now if they stop support for firewire on existing devices, a lot of people will be really po'd.

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post #119 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dozens
What is a SA3250 ? I thought COmcast used DCT 6200.

Different headends may use different equipment.

Regards,
Joe


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post #120 of 2181 Old 04-08-2004, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Killroy
I tried channel 0 & 63 but nothing happened...

AV/C control shows the t-165 as "SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS" (no quotes)....

If you could edit that script for me and let me play with it I would appreciate it...I am having problems with the t-165 not launching when the timer was set...so I was hoping that your script would solve that problem.

Thanks

Try these Sammy T165 scripts . When I had the Sammy T165 last week, it worked on channel 0. Please let me know how it goes. You might need to try channel 1 also. The key is to open communications between the Mac and the T165. Then, you should be able to change the channel to 0. Trial and error is involved. But once you get channel 0 working, it should all be down hill using the scripts with iCal or manually from the AppleScript Menu.

Regards,
Joe


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