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Old 12-27-2006, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, being that I'm new to Macs and I just purchased a G4 733 which comes with a split 60+60/DVD-RAM config, will I have space to add 1 more internal drive or do I want to add an external? Newegg is selling an internal 500Gb Sata for $130 and I was wondering if that would do? What kind of controller would I need to use a SATA drive on it?

I'd rather have an internal than an external to save space.

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Old 12-27-2006, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

OK, being that I'm new to Macs and I just purchased a G4 733 which comes with a split 60+60/DVD-RAM config, will I have space to add 1 more internal drive or do I want to add an external? Newegg is selling an internal 500Gb Sata for $130 and I was wondering if that would do? What kind of controller would I need to use a SATA drive on it?

I'd rather have an internal than an external to save space.

I believe the Powermac G4's do not accept SATA drives without adding a SATA PCI card to add the capabilities.
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe the Powermac G4's do not accept SATA drives without adding a SATA PCI card to add the capabilities.

I'm aware of that. As I understand it you don't neccessarily have to use a PCI card.

What I want to know is if I should get a USB-SATA adapter or just forget about that and get an external USB drive, etc.

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Old 12-27-2006, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I'm aware of that. As I understand it you don't neccessarily have to use a PCI card.

What I want to know is if I should get a USB-SATA adapter or just forget about that and get an external USB drive, etc.

The best way to use internal SATA drives is to get a PCI card. That's what I do on my 667MHz G4. I'm running a 400GB WD of of a SIIG 4 channel SATA card. Works like a dream. You want to avoid using USB to SATA converters, as it will kill your performance. If you still have an ATA channel open, you can just add in another ATA drive. When you say "split 60+60/DVD-RAM config" do you mean you have 2 hard drives and a DVD-RAM? The stock Mac 60GB drives, while fine in their time, are 4-5 years old, and today's drives far outperform them. I view the 120GB WD special drives as the bottom end of the AV drive spec. If you have two 60's, ditch one, and get a 500 GB ATA drive. Or, you can get a 2 channel internal/2 channel external SATA PCI card, and have all of the options you'll ever need for storage. I'd steer clear of external USB storage, as Apple's firewire is a more robust strategy, particularly if you want to add more than one drive.

So, what are your priorities?

Price: ditch one 60GB and get a 500 GB ATA drive.
Performance: get a SATA PCI card and drive
Flexibility/max storage: get an internal/external SATA PCI card
Portability: get external firewire

There are always tradeoffs. I spec out int/ext drives of all sizes and interfaces/enclosures for video, audio and graphic artists. So if you get a little more specific, I'll drop back and give you a more specific recommendation if you want.
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Old 12-27-2006, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I'm looking at cost effectiveness too. If a 500Gb SATA drive costs $130 now, how much does a PCI SATA controller cost? $60? Does it support 3.0 speeds? Do I really want to go back to normal ATA at this point?

One drawback to normal ATA on my machine is that since I have the older 733, as I understand it, it won't work with anything older than 128Gb drives? I need to use special drivers? I could quite possibly spare 1 older 167Gb ATA drive from my regular setup here but the thing I really wanted to do was buy a huge drive for the Mac.

The internal drives are cheaper but by the time I add the controller card for the Mac it will end up costing the same as the external drive (I'd go with a USB drive because I have a PS3 which also works with USB).

Eh. I guess it makes little difference because I just bought a Gigabit switch, so I can do superfast transfers between my PC and Mac so it doesn't matter where I store the files.

Someone want to point me to a SATA PCI controller card that's not too expensive? Is anyone selling them on eBay?

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Old 12-27-2006, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

Well, I'm looking at cost effectiveness too. If a 500Gb SATA drive costs $130 now, how much does a PCI SATA controller cost? $60? Does it support 3.0 speeds? Do I really want to go back to normal ATA at this point?

You can get a SATA card starting at $50 new. As to going back to ATA...well you bought a computer that only offers support for that for internal storage. While great machines, the G4's have their inherent limitations. They are great machines to build on.

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One drawback to normal ATA on my machine is that since I have the older 733, as I understand it, it won't work with anything older than 128Gb drives? I need to use special drivers?

Correct. There are drivers available. i.e. Intech Speed Tools .

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but the thing I really wanted to do was buy a huge drive for the Mac.

Then you need to get a SATA card, go firewire, or go USB. In that order of robustness.

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The internal drives are cheaper but by the time I add the controller card for the Mac it will end up costing the same as the external drive.

Yes, for one drive. But the SATA card gives you more options/flexibility. Firewire is extensible and daisy-chainable, and you can build nice 2-drive striped RAIDs if you need performance.

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Someone want to point me to a SATA PCI controller card that's not too expensive? Is anyone selling them on eBay?

While you can buy on eBay, a new SATA PCI is only $50, and you know what you get. Your PCI card needs to be Mac-specific. I like to buy many of my peripherals from OWC (I'm not affiliated, just a satisfied customer). They have many bundles, bare drives, enclosure kits, and PCI cards. You can get a 500GB SATA drive and SATA PCI for $199.

Or you can look around for the best drive prices, and get an external enclosure and build your own (that's what I do). There are many options. You can get single, dual, triple or quad interface enclosures for any mix of interfaces you might use.
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Old 12-27-2006, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I think it's to be noted that I'm coming from the place that I already have a PC with 7 open jacks on the motherboard for SATA drives, with 2 RAID controllers.

So, I'm not quite sure if I want to spend money on this when I can just shove the 500Gb drive in my PC and just transfer the files over to the MAC as needed.

What brought this on was that I saw the SATA drives on sale for $130 shipped, and since the MAC handles HD files better than the PC, that it would be easier to do it that way.

OK, that said, I guess the $50 controllers are only 1.5Gbps and not 3.0. Hmm. I'm open to any other suggestions. Like I said before, I just bought a gigabit switch, so transfering big files from the Mac to PC is no big deal now.

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Old 12-27-2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I think it's to be noted that I'm coming from the place that I already have a PC with 7 open jacks on the motherboard for SATA drives, with 2 RAID controllers.

So, I'm not quite sure if I want to spend money on this when I can just shove the 500Gb drive in my PC and just transfer the files over to the MAC as needed.

What brought this on was that I saw the SATA drives on sale for $130 shipped, and since the MAC handles HD files better than the PC, that it would be easier to do it that way.

OK, that said, I guess the $50 controllers are only 1.5Gbps and not 3.0. Hmm. I'm open to any other suggestions. Like I said before, I just bought a gigabit switch, so transfering big files from the Mac to PC is no big deal now.

Well, the PC is probably a lot newer than the Mac, too, then if it includes onboard SATA. The 1.5Gbps on the SATA PCI is more than adequate for the bandwidth of a single SATA drive, so unless you are going to add more than one drive, or run a RAID, then it is fine. So, if I were you, I'd decide if what you want to do with the Mac is worth investing a little money in it, or if you are happy with the PC. You haven't mentioned, though, what you will be using the drive for, so it's really hard to offer much more here.
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Old 12-27-2006, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Basically I'm just going to use the MAC to store, and dump HD to my DVHS & Firewire equiped HDTV. That's it. The PC is way too glitchy for it, even Vista 64X AFAIK has not solved this problem, (and I'm a beta tester) which is a damn shame.

I've been riding Microsoft's ass to fix the problem, the drivers are there, even the JVC 30K DVHS drivers are included with Vista (both versions), and they still didn't deem it worth fixing. Seems pretty shortsighted considering they want Vista to be a multimedia based OS. Had they fixed it they would have saved me $400.

LAME.

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Old 12-28-2006, 01:48 PM
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Dave, I have a 450Mhz G4 that I use for the same purpose. I have a 20GB drive for the OS and a 120GB ATA drive for the HD stuff. I have added a Gigabit ethernet card to speed up transfers to my PC. I would also suggest getting a USB 2.0 PCI card so you can hook up external HDDs to the G4.

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Old 12-28-2006, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

I would also suggest getting a USB 2.0 PCI card so you can hook up external HDDs to the G4.

Why do you need USB? The G4 has Firewire -- you can add as many external Firewire drives as you want.
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Old 12-28-2006, 02:53 PM
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I was about to ask the same question. I have an iMac, what external drives are good with my Mac. And second I just got the program FotoMagico and it tells me I have low video memory. What is that mean?......
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Old 12-28-2006, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I think I'm going to go for the 500Gb internal SATA drive and PCI controller route to save space and then buy external harddrives later on (I do have that PS3 too now).

Oh well, I guess I paid too much for the system with the two 60Gb drives which I'll probably throw away, but what the hell, I only paid $235 for the 733 G4, which isn't much at all.

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Old 12-28-2006, 06:16 PM
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Definitely go for the 500 GB drive and add a SATA PCI card. That's what I did.

I've got a G4 Digital Audio with a Fastmac 1.5 GHz G4, a SeriTek SATA PCI (4 internal ports) card, a 500 GB and 320 GB SATA drives, and the original IDE/ATA drive. I even added an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro that I got off eBay.

And don't forget to adding USB 2.0, FireWire 800, 802.11b/g, and Bluetooth.

With Leopard coming, you'll need the EXTRA capacity and if you're gonna use Time Machine, you're DEFINITELY going to need the EXTRA capacity.
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Old 12-28-2006, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Soccerdude View Post

I was about to ask the same question. I have an iMac, what external drives are good with my Mac. And second I just got the program FotoMagico and it tells me I have low video memory. What is that mean?......

Which iMac do you have...? G3? G4? G5?
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Old 12-28-2006, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post

Why do you need USB? The G4 has Firewire -- you can add as many external Firewire drives as you want.

USB 2.0 for G5 iPod support...
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Old 12-28-2006, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely go for the 500 GB drive and add a SATA PCI card. That's what I did.

I've got a G4 Digital Audio with a Fastmac 1.5 GHz G4, a SeriTek SATA PCI (4 internal ports) card, a 500 GB and 320 GB SATA drives, and the original IDE/ATA drive. I even added an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro that I got off eBay.

And don't forget to adding USB 2.0, FireWire 800, 802.11b/g, and Bluetooth.

With Leopard coming, you'll need the EXTRA capacity and if you're gonna use Time Machine, you're DEFINITELY going to need the EXTRA capacity.

Yeah, I already have a Bluetooth 2.0 Dongle w/Keys+Mouse for my PC and an extra Radeon 9700 lying around, but unfortunately I sold all my AGP mobos so I have no way to burn it over to a MAC firmware. If someone wants to do it for me I'll send it over and let them have fun with it for a few dollars (I think it's got a short in it anyways).

I'll also pick up a USB 2.0 PCI card when I buy the harddrive from Newegg.

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Old 12-28-2006, 08:22 PM
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Which iMac do you have...? G3? G4? G5?

I have G4..
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:11 PM
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Only at all stating what I would do--instead of buying an SATA PCI card and then later an external enclosure, I'd buy an Icy Dock enclosure that uses inexpensive trays. Support for SATA drives, Firewire, etc. Moderate initial cost, cheap to expand when you need the next drive instead of buying another piece that's equally expensive.
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Old 12-28-2006, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Nah.

I'd rather have 2 internal 500Gb SATA drives first, which are much faster, and save more space (I have nowhere to put the external stuff either) and then worry about the external stuff later.

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Old 12-29-2006, 07:43 AM
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Wise choice, Dave, it's why you were urged to buy that PowerMac with gigabit in the first place: it had the firewire you needed for VirtualDVHS, there's easy access and room inside for even more big drives, fans to keep them cool, it could be networked easily and hidden if necessary.

Max it out first. Yank out the Zip drive and put an SATA there as well. Then think about how to extend your storage or network.

It's not stated enough around here: in the home theater context, there's years of valuable life left in these older G4 Powermacs, especially the Quicksilvers and MDDs.
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Old 12-29-2006, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chefklc View Post

It's not stated enough around here: in the home theater context, there's years of valuable life left in these older G4 Powermacs, especially the Quicksilvers and MDDs.

Amen!
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Wise choice, Dave, it's why you were urged to buy that PowerMac with gigabit in the first place: it had the firewire you needed for VirtualDVHS, there's easy access and room inside for even more big drives, fans to keep them cool, it could be networked easily and hidden if necessary.

Max it out first. Yank out the Zip drive and put an SATA there as well. Then think about how to extend your storage or network.

It's not stated enough around here: in the home theater context, there's years of valuable life left in these older G4 Powermacs, especially the Quicksilvers and MDDs.

OK, I ordered a cheapie SATA PCI controller w/2 SATA ports and a Maxtor 500Gb drive that was on sale. I don't even think my 733 G4 that's coming has a Zip drive in it. What's listed on the auction is 60+60Gb split and DVD-Ram drive. That's it. Cost me $195+$40 to ship.

I guess I'll find outwhat's in it when I get it next week.

Hehehe. I bet the DVD-Ram drive is slow as molasses.

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Old 12-30-2006, 08:47 AM
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thinking about adding an external hard drive to my mac pro laptop
any suggestions on brand and type i looked at the lacie 250 usb rj45
but limited knowledge in this area has me second guessing.
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Old 12-30-2006, 10:00 AM
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It's not stated enough around here: in the home theater context, there's years of valuable life left in these older G4 Powermacs, especially the Quicksilvers and MDDs.

I would agree, except for the fan noise. I have a MDD and it is loud. Way too loud to be in the same room as your Home Theater. Compared to it the MacPro is virtually silent. The only defect of the MacPro (aside from cost) is that for some bizarre reason it doesn't support Front Row/Apple Remote.

Of course if you have a separate computer room so noise isn't a factor, then indeed the older G4s are just fine.
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Old 12-31-2006, 02:53 PM
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Right, our living space will at times dictate what makes the most sense--but even if you have a trusty "windtunnel" that hasn't had the power supply and quieter fan mod--have you heard any of these NAS and multiple drive enclosures? With beefy power supplies and fans to keep the drives cool, most can hardly be called quiet--so at some point when you need to address storage you'll have to confront the noise issue.

If you bought a Terastation you're stuck with the IDE drives it shipped with that can't be upgraded or swapped out--it's value has just declined as hard drive capacities have risen and prices on bare drives have dropped--what's 1 TB now? Chump change.

Even with a Infrant ReadyNAS, which always seemed to me the far superior device and value--there's a limit to how far you can bump up its capacity--but don't try playing back an EyeTV recording from a USB hard drive you might plug into it--the NAS is pretty slow to begin with and those USB ports and externals, well forget about it. They're not designed to stream from.

These older Powermacs will appeal to those of us with a gigabit network yet on a budget, they can be placed anywhere--4 or 5 big hard drives inside, plus any number of externals can be connected via firewire 400, 800 or eSATA. That's a lot of expansion and nimble performance for a few hundred bucks--less than half the price of a bare ReadyNAS--and you're right Ted, as long as you have someplace to tuck it. But, you'll have to deal with fan noise or an enclosure which doesn't spin fans down as the drives spin down, one way or another, as you face growing backup, redundancy and storage needs.
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Old 01-02-2007, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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My WD SATA drive came from Fry's and I'll be getting my Mac controller card in a few days. When I hook the drive up, should I set it to 1.5 mode, because the controller maxes out at 1.5Gbps max, or should I just leave the drive set @ 3.0 even though the PCI controller card is 1.5?

Oh, also, after I install the big SATA drive, should I install OS X on it and boot off it?

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Old 01-03-2007, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

My WD SATA drive came from Fry's and I'll be getting my Mac controller card in a few days. When I hook the drive up, should I set it to 1.5 mode, because the controller maxes out at 1.5Gbps max, or should I just leave the drive set @ 3.0 even though the PCI controller card is 1.5?

Oh, also, after I install the big SATA drive, should I install OS X on it and boot off it?

As for 1.5 vs 3.0, I think you'll just need to try it out.

But, probably not any real advantage to boot off your SATA drive (if you even can, as many cards are not bootable--check Xlr8yourmac's for more info), and it's best practice to have a separate capture drive from your boot drive. Though if you can boot off it, might be good to setup a small partition for a 'emergency' drive.
Now another way would be to clone one of the 60 Gigs, to the other, and run a RAID1 array (Mirrored) as a boot drive for some speed and redundancy, then use the other drive cage for your extra SATA drive(s). According to the specs you have support for 4-total internal drives.

With my MDD I also had 4 drive spaces, and quickly populated them, and with three ATA busses it was easier. But, now I've put it in a rackmount case modified by Marathon Computer (RIP) to fit the MDD. And, I myself just got a SATA RAID card and will slowly work on putting together a RAID-5 array to hold all my recordings. I'll start with a JBOD group with all my previous drives, that were in a SeriTek external enclosure, with PCI card, I got at MacWorld. I hope to get a internal array to house them as the i-Star case has room for two 3x5.25" arrays. But, I'll go with one to start as I need the others for my Superdrive, and maybe Blu-Ray-ROM. Then I"ll need to find a good external firewire case for all my IDEs.

erik g
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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So confusing.

All I know is I picked up a non-Raid ACARD AEC-6290M. There's already a firware revision up on ACARD's site from Nov that allows you to boot from the latest OS X revision.

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Old 01-04-2007, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaderson View Post

...Now another way would be to clone one of the 60 Gigs, to the other, and run a RAID0 array as a boot drive for some speed and redundancy...

Mostly good advice, but I just want to point out that RAID-0 offer absolutely ZERO redundancy... In fact, it doubles your chance of drive failure. I only recommend it for "working" partitions, where you dump the contents to another drive at the end of the day.

If you want redundancy AND speed, RAID-5 is a good way to go. Some like RAID-1+0, but it's not really cost-effective.
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