Apple's new HDTV products - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Apple's relevent new products:

Apple TV $299
February ship date
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...D&nclm=AppleTV

Airport Extreme (802.11n) $179
February ship date
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...lm=MA073LL%2FA

Apple iPhone $499 (4GB) and $599 (8GB)
A breakthrough cell phone/iPod/portable Internet device;
This will redefine the telecommunications industry and it makes all other cell phones obsolete
June ship date
http://www.apple.com/iphone/ipod/

Mac mini $599-$799
Does not appear to have been updated -- yet
(No Core2 Duo CPUs, no 802.11n, no beefed up video or HD;
I now expect a Core2 Duo/802.11n speed bump to occur down the road)
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...0&nclm=Macmini

Apple Cinema Displays
Does not appear to have been updated -- yet
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...&nclm=B30BC981

Apple iSight
Does not appear to have been updated -- yet;
No iSight available at all at the Apple Store, but some accesories still are listed
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...&nclm=B7EFC2B4

Geo
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post #2 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 12:27 PM
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Very odd that there was no mention of this, at least in the various "live feeds" from the keynote.

Please post your news/rumors about 720p iTunes content on this thread...or point to a thread were you think this is better discussed.

Thanks,
JPEG
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post #3 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 12:51 PM
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Just looked through the apple site. Specs are interesting -- hdmi, 720p streaming through 802.11n, 40gb hd. Looks like 720p movie rentals/sales through Itunes is here. I'd definitely take advantage of the rental if the price is right.
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post #4 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Jobs did mention 720p content during the Apple TV discussion as noted during the www.macrumorslive.com blog that I monitored. I can't recall if the blog also noted whether the mentioned iTunes in this context, but upon reading it, I immediately assumed Apple will be bumping the quality of movie downloads to 720p. Also, the AppleTv supports component video and HDMI.

Geo
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post #5 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:00 PM
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Apple has been providing 720p HD trailers in iTunes Store for awhile now, and they attempt to stream over AirPort Extreme from computer-to-computer at my house. :-)

Having the Apple TV device be capable of HD means they will sell HD movies and probably TV shows.

It is highly unfortunate, though predictable, that Apple TV does not support MPEG2 video. Back to conversion-land.

... and because theres no analog S-Video or composite output, theres going to be no copying of content purchased (or rented if that is offered) from iTunes Store from the Apple TV.
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post #6 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:01 PM
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What other purpose could there be for the 720p capability but for iTunes movies?

The more I think about it, the more I like this device.
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post #7 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel THB View Post

What other purpose could there be for the 720p capability but for iTunes movies?

The more I think about it, the more I like this device.

Your own copies of unencrypted content from network HD television shows -- especially those from ABC and Fox.

Since Apple TV's specs state 720p @ 24fps (and no other frame-rates), even those HD tv shows will have to be converted from their broadcast frame rate of 59.94.

Maybe there are hidden specs like on the iPod -- like if you use MPEG4, you can have 720x480 resolution... I guess we won't know until these boxes turn up in the hands of users who like to test!
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post #8 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Odd footprint for new Apple TV vs. Mac mini/Airport Extreme. It would have to be stacked underneath the mini. I wonder why there is a 1.2-inch footprint difference? Maybe a new mini will be coming with a slightly larger footprint? But then, what about the Airport Extreme (802.11n) footprint? They all are designed to look alike, but the footprints don't match? what's with that?

Apple TV Specs
Footprint: 7.7 by 7.7 inches (197 mm x 197 mm)
Height: 1.1 inches (28 mm)

Apple Airport Extreme (802.11n)
Footprint: 6.5 x 6.5 inches (165 mm x 165 mm)
Height: 1.3 inches (34 mm)

Apple Mac mini (current model)
Footprint: 6.5 x 6.5 inches (165 mm x 165 mm)
Height: 2 inches (5.08 cm)

Geo
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post #9 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:18 PM
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I surmise they dont anticipate people having *both* a Mac mini and Apple TV by the television.
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post #10 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:24 PM
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Why would you want your router stacked beneath the TV? I'm surprised the new Airport Express only has 100BaseT, not Gigabit.

Sent a ticket in to ElGato asking about EyeTV500 recordings and Apple TV compatibility. Just for kicks last Saturday, I started transcoding a 30-minute HD recording in 720p to H.264 (8000kps Multipass via Toast) on my G4 1.25 Mini. As of this morning it was still chewing on the 5th pass. Wow. Sure going to need a better workflow than that.

[edit] Oh, I do also love that the HDMI cables listed on Apple's AppleTV site cost a whopping $20.
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post #11 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmwedding View Post

Apple's relevent new products:

Airport TV $299
February ship date
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...D&nclm=AppleTV

That's Apple TV, right?
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post #12 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmwedding View Post

Odd footprint for new Apple TV vs. Mac mini/Airport Extreme. It would have to be stacked underneath the mini. I wonder why there is a 1.2-inch footprint difference? Maybe a new mini will be coming with a slightly larger footprint? But then, what about the Airport Extreme (802.11n) footprint? They all are designed to look alike, but the footprints don't match? what's with that?

Apple TV Specs
Footprint: 7.7 by 7.7 inches (197 mm x 197 mm)
Height: 1.1 inches (28 mm)

Apple Airport Extreme (802.11n)
Footprint: 6.5 x 6.5 inches (165 mm x 165 mm)
Height: 1.3 inches (34 mm)

Apple Mac mini (current model)
Footprint: 6.5 x 6.5 inches (165 mm x 165 mm)
Height: 2 inches (5.08 cm)

I can't imagine anyone having the Apple TV stacked under the Airport or the mini. It's wireless and is supposed to exist "away" from traditional computer equipment. Stacking the TV and the Airport makes sense and those footprints do match.
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post #13 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntnyMD View Post

It is highly unfortunate, though predictable, that Apple TV does not support MPEG2 video.

Amen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntnyMD View Post

Back to conversion-land.

Like hell!

This product is crippled. If it were truly capable, it would compete with the (more expensive) Mini. So now I'll look at Netgear and D-Link, who may finally have got it right after a couple of false starts, and watch for the update to the Mini.
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post #14 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsarver View Post

Amen!


Like hell!

This product is crippled. If it were truly capable, it would compete with the (more expensive) Mini. So now I'll look at Netgear and D-Link, who may finally have got it right after a couple of false starts, and watch for the update to the Mini.

The specs on the Netgear and D-Link products state they require Windows. That may or may not be the end of the story, but as of now, they're worthless to those of us in the Mac world.
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post #15 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

I can't imagine anyone having the Apple TV stacked under the Airport or the mini. It's wireless and is supposed to exist "away" from traditional computer equipment. Stacking the TV and the Airport makes sense and those footprints do match.

You meant "stacking the MINI and the AirPort make sense...", right?
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post #16 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug_Eldred View Post

You meant "stacking the MINI and the AirPort make sense...", right?

doh! yes.
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post #17 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not at all bothered by a lack of MPEG2 support in the Apple TV. MPEG 2 is the past - MPEG 4 is the future. Since we have never donwloaded, created or stored MPEG2 movies (like most people), its omission is no big deal.

So why would one necessarily choose to locate the Apple TV away from the HDTV component cabinet? If it's wireless, I'm having a problem visualizing something about a network setup that places it elsewhere, but I also am sure I am missing something conceptual...I also was hoping it would double as a WiFi router, but that probably was hoping for too much for that $299 price point.

It certainly sounds like an updated Mac mini, an Airport Extreme (802.11n) and an Apple TV would make for a nice system. I'm envisioning using a Mac mini connected to the component cabinet at all times, but use the Apple TV to send video to other computers in a home/office. However, I guess one could skip the Mac mini and just use the Apple TV to stream everything to your laptop or other Mac or PC?

Can someone here sketch out a viable, cost-effective network with these components?

Geo
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post #18 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:23 PM
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I think the Apple TV is RECEIVING video, not SENDING it. And it's wireless as far as networking, but wired as far as connecting to the TV via HDMI/component.
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post #19 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:26 PM
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Apple TV does not stream to other computers. It streams from other computers. Its only output is to a physically connected TV (through component video or HDMI).

This product if for people that have one or more computers that are spread out in the home and have none connected to their TV (HDTV is the intended target for Apple TV).

It allows people to gather in front of their TV and watch slide shows, listen to music, watch movies and TV shows (either downloaded from iTunes, or home converted in H.264 format).
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post #20 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Well then, I think it really must be designed to be IN the component cabinet as well, given the need for an HDMI connection the big screen TV. So does this mean that you don't need the Apple TV if you have a Mac mini in the component cabinet?

Wouldn't you need one of these (Apple TV) in the Mac mini-equipped component cabinet if you also wanted to stream content to other Macs?

Geo
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post #21 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmwedding View Post

So why would one necessarily choose to locate the Apple TV away from the HDTV component cabinet? If it's wireless, I'm having a problem visualizing something about a network setup that places it elsewhere, but I also am sure I am missing something conceptual...I also was hoping it would double as a WiFi router, but that probably was hoping for too much for that $299 price point.

I think you have it backwards, but I could be wrong as well.

The AppleTV is connected to your TV, so it would sit in your component cabinet. It syncs directly with your main computer, let's say the Mac mini in your office. If you have another Mac or PC in the house, let's say the gaming rig you have in the basement, you can only stream media from that Mac/PC to the AppleTV. Not the other way around.

I could be wrong, but that's how I read the keynote updates.

ft
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post #22 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:30 PM
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I think the Apple TV is an ALTERNATIVE to having a more expensive (but more capable) Mini connected directly to your TV/AVR. You might have the Mini (or any Mac) elsewhere, storing all the media files (music, movies, TV, podcasts, photos, etc.) and the Apple TV simply accesses the Mini/whatever over the network. If you already have a Mini/whatever connected directly to your TV, you don't need the Apple TV, unless it has some specific feature that's better, or unless you want to move the TV-Mini somewhere else.
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post #23 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Why do I think in this way? Because my first instinct is that I wouldn't want to tie up my main work computer as a video server...

Geo
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post #24 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:37 PM
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Exactly why I have a Mini attached to my TV, and my Power Mac upstairs sleeps when it's not in use. And why I'm probably not a good candidate for Apple TV 1.0.
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post #25 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 02:41 PM
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That's how I understood it as well, ftaok.

I'm mostly concerned about DD, if it passes AC-3 over converted H.264 films I'm all for hooking up a mini to a network storage device, streaming content from that through an airport and putting an AppleTV in the livingroom, bedroom, and possibly theater.

An USB HDTV tuner with an integrated remote would just be gravy.

I guess we'll see.


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post #26 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 03:58 PM
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The Ethernet spec listed is for 10/100. Every other Mac now has Gigabit. This looks to me to be too slow for wired networks and HD streaming. Wireless is nice, but wired is always more stable.

Also, they have not listed the HDMI spec. Is it the new 1.3 spec? I can't seem to find it anywhere on Apple's site.

What else is missing? How about a build-to-order option for larger hard drives? Also, no spec for the hard drive speed (I suspect it may be 5,400 rpm)

Still an interesting product for the price.

maybe the new Minis will come with the same capabilities as the Apple TV, same software, bigger drives, HDMI, etc.... maybe what we are seeing here in the Apple TV is the new Front Row.
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post #27 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 04:05 PM
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makes absolutely zero sense that this isn't gigabit (and makes me think the likelihood of a future 1080p firmware update ala the 360 is a pipe-dream)

no mpeg-2 certainly sucks.

As many of us suspected, this is much more of an itunes store revenue tool than a true media server.

I'll be very curious as to whether the itunes prefs are going to allow us to do aliasing to external drives and (more importantly) NAS's.

That being said, I bought one already.
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post #28 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmali View Post

The Ethernet spec listed is for 10/100. Every other Mac now has Gigabit.

Yeah, I also see the lack of gigabit Ethernet on both the Apple TV and the new Airport Extreme (802.11n) as a very big problem. We just installed three new gigabit switches on our LAN to get a hard-wired gigabit backbone to the computer and router locations. I was anticipating a new gigabit router and a gigabit Apple TV. This 10/100 spec makes no sense. I am hoping the spec is a misprint on the Web site. With three Ethernet ports, the new Airport Extreme would have been a logical connection point for attaching an NAS...

What about this am I missing now? It seems like someone had both eyes on the fabulous new iPhone but forgot to check these products for fatal flaws...

Geo
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post #29 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 04:37 PM
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Lack of gigabit on the Airport Extreme is a problem, but it's not an issue on the Apple TV. 1080p television is a mere 19mb/s and next gen optical formats average 25mb/s. Gigabit speeds simply aren't needed.
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post #30 of 122 Old 01-09-2007, 04:47 PM
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Really, the only thing that bothers me right now is the audio. I don't see any support for surround sound. No 5.1 bums me out. I hope the optical passes AC3 5.1.
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