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post #1 of 26 Old 01-10-2007, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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No replacement for the EyeTV 500?
No new QAM products?
No MacMini footprint?

What gives?
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post #2 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetFreak View Post

No replacement for the EyeTV 500?
No new QAM products?
No MacMini footprint?

What gives?

Miglia announced the TVmini HD+ which, on paper, is better than the 500. It's USB2, NTSC/ATSC/QAM, and uses EyeTV2 software.

They haven't updated their website and details about it are scarce.

ft
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post #3 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 05:54 AM
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Although for some of us here, if it isn't firewire, it isn't better than the 500, on paper or anywhere else. But I know what you mean--there's a certain segment that would appreciate the ability to record high def OTA or QAM and the occasional SD cable channel with one device. Of course, it would be even better if there were a single device with dual coax inputs which would allow you to record OTA and QAM and SD cable.

I agree with the sentiments Joseph S expressed here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=784389

"re-release the firewire EyeTV 500 with a different product name so we can have 3 500s and 3 501s!!!!!

Quote:


No replacement for the EyeTV 500?
No new QAM products?
No MacMini footprint?

What gives?

I'm surprised by this as well, but maybe El Gato:

1) has been too busy selling cheap USB sticks around the world to care much about new products for North America;
2) has decided to get out of the hardware biz completely, leaving that to third party providers instead and just focus on the software and followup support;
3) has been so distracted by the chilly reception the dubious changes in their software have received here, by their most loyal supporters, that they've had to change course internally several times, which has slowed them down;
4) couldn't get a deal done with Newertech--how difficult can it be to stick that cheap EyeTV Hybrid inside a miniStack?
5) decided to wait for Leopard?
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post #4 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chefklc View Post

Although for some of us here, if it isn't firewire, it isn't better than the 500, on paper or anywhere else. But I know what you mean--there's a certain segment that would appreciate the ability to record high def OTA or QAM and the occasional SD cable channel with one device. Of course, it would be even better if there were a single device with dual coax inputs which would allow you to record OTA and QAM and SD cable.

Even though I've never used any of these products, I do agree with you about USB2 vs. Firewire. That's why I wrote "on paper".

The problem is that Apple has been stingy on their Mac mini and Macbook with the number of FW ports, so if the "501" doesn't have a pass-thru then I'd have to disconnect when hooking up my camcorder, etc.

The mini has 4 USB2 ports, so I'm thinking 1-miglia; 2-500GB HD; 3-250GB HD; 4-open. I already have the 2 hard drives and will be waiting for the miglia device, unless elgato gets a 501 out there.

ft
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post #5 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 08:02 AM
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I can't be much help as far as assigning the USB ports, Apple's implementation has always seemed poor to me, way too slow, too much overhead if you multitask, etc. I currently only use one on the core duo Mac connected to my HDTV: I keep my iTunes library in a USB external. Everything else up there (at the moment, two 500s and two external firewire enclosures) is in a typical firewire daisychain--between firewire and gigabit I can edit and move large files from volume to volume or around the house to other Macs very quickly. (One could also move all this to another Mac and just go the minimalist "extender" route.)

I doubt we'll see a "501," but it would be downright foolish for anyone to release an add-on firewire product with but one firewire port--so you're pretty safe there. I realize some of us sound like broken records with this, but I'd still recommend scanning the auctions and Craigslist for a 200 and 500, neither device has yet come close to being surpassed.

Agreed about the single firewire on the low end Macs: no ability to add a second bus is one of the little ways Apple intentionally delineates its product line and it's been a frequent lament. Problem is there are still big gaps in the product line, and the step "up" comes at significant cost--especially from a home theater perspective where none of us wants to pay for a redundant display in the process. But, as has been advised many times, if you choose your add-on devices carefully, daisychaining works quite well. (From a workflow standpoint, if you're going to deal with importing and editing a lot of footage, you're probably going to be unhappy anyway and might benefit off-loading that to a second Mac in the house.)

As far as those hard drives--word to the wise since you're not doing the DVR thing yet--just make sure you buy or put one of them in a dual firewire/usb enclosure so you keep both options open. Unless you already have all C2D "n" capable Macs and plan on buying the new Airport Extreme basestation, you'll come to realize how much you still need the firewire storage.
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post #6 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chefklc View Post

As far as those hard drives--word to the wise since you're not doing the DVR thing yet--just make sure you buy or put one of them in a dual firewire/usb enclosure so you keep both options open. Unless you already have all C2D "n" capable Macs and plan on buying the new Airport Extreme basestation, you'll come to realize how much you still need the firewire storage.

Unfortuneately, I already have the enclosures for the drives. I had such good luck with the Macally FW/USB2 enclosure that I bought months ago, that when I bought a couple of internal SATA drives, I bought the Macally enclosures to go along with it without thinking about the FW connectivity.

I figured the USB and eSATA ports were plenty.

Maybe some new enclosures will be in my future if the USB becomes a problem.

I really should have jumped on the refurb 500's back when elgato still had them. Oh well.

ft
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post #7 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:


I figured the USB and eSATA ports were plenty.

well, I did much the same thing, I just made a personal decision to stop buying PATA drives maybe 15 months ago, gambling that I had enough for the enclosures and bays that I currently had AND that Apple would eventually catch up. It made sense to future-proof a bit by going SATA that it would just be a matter of time for it to pay off. Granted, we both know it might be a very long time in "Apple time" for eSATA to filter down to the cheap core duo Macbooks and Mini.

That USB enclosure I mentioned above which houses my iTunes library is actually a dual-drive eSATA/USB, so I was just like you. It's fine for music only, too slow moving any video onto and off of. You'll have to experience it firsthand and make a determination for yourself, but as you grow, remember there are a bunch of affordable and more interesting eSATA PCI card options showing up every day, it just might make sense to get your hands on a cheap old G4 PowerMac with gigabit, pop one of those controllers in, and plug all your external eSATAs and EyeTV/Miglia devices into that.

Maybe that's the better investment than additional firewire enclosures?
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post #8 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chefklc View Post

well, I did much the same thing, I just made a personal decision to stop buying PATA drives maybe 15 months ago, gambling that I had enough for the enclosures and bays that I currently had AND that Apple would eventually catch up. It made sense to future-proof a bit by going SATA that it would just be a matter of time for it to pay off. Granted, we both know it might be a very long time in "Apple time" for eSATA to filter down to the cheap core duo Macbooks and Mini.

That USB enclosure I mentioned above which houses my iTunes library is actually a dual-drive eSATA/USB, so I was just like you. It's fine for music only, too slow moving any video onto and off of. You'll have to experience it firsthand and make a determination for yourself, but as you grow, remember there are a bunch of affordable and more interesting eSATA PCI card options showing up every day, it just might make sense to get your hands on a cheap old G4 PowerMac with gigabit, pop one of those controllers in, and plug all your external eSATAs and EyeTV/Miglia devices into that.

Maybe that's the better investment than additional firewire enclosures?

Regarding the use of the USB drives for video, I've only started importing my video from my miniDV camcorder onto my wifes Macbook. Right now, I'm using the FW for the camcorder and one of the 2 USB2 ports for the 250GB drive.

I haven't played around too much with the clips yet, but I haven't noticed dropped frames or any funky stuff. If it does become a problem, would it better to import via daisy-chaining through a FW drive? I've read where that's not recommended either.

ft
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post #9 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 01:18 PM
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I have no inside knowledge, but, after having looked at the information about ATI's lame product intro, I have to believe that El Gato may believe that the timing is not right for a (multiple) cable card based device.

Apparently the DRM issues are still a major problem and the first generation cable cards are one way only (no on demand services, guides, etc) and the standards do not appear to be set in stone as yet. There is always the encryption bugaboo on many cable channels that will make the situation a headache until these issues are resolved.

Still, I share your disappointment at the lack of new products, but I hope that this simply means that the product development cycle and MacWorld did not coincide.

I use my EyeTV 200 a great deal and am looking forward to "the next big idea".

Cheers
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post #10 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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While CableCard would be cool, at this point I could do with QAM. I guess I will hold out until the Leopard release to see if they announce something then. if not, then I will search craigslist for an EyeTV 500.

On a different note, what is the difference between the Miglia HD+ product annonced at macWorld and the previous version?
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post #11 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetFreak View Post

While CableCard would be cool, at this point I could do with QAM. I guess I will hold out until the Leopard release to see if they announce something then. if not, then I will search craigslist for an EyeTV 500.

On a different note, what is the difference between the Miglia HD+ product annonced at macWorld and the previous version?

The HD+ has NTSC in addition to ATSC/QAM.
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post #12 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 07:04 PM
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well, the really key discriminator from the previous version would be if it has dual antenna/coax inputs--like the EyeTV500--that way an antenna for OTA and a coax for cable can be connected simultaneously. I haven't seen that mentioned yet.
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post #13 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chefklc View Post

well, the really key discriminator from the previous version would be if it has dual antenna/coax inputs--like the EyeTV500--that way an antenna for OTA and a coax for cable can be connected simultaneously. I haven't seen that mentioned yet.

chefklc,

With the EyeTV500, if you had OTA and QAM connected simultaneously, could you, in theory record (2) channels simultaneously? I thought that EyeTV was glitchy with dual tuners, albeit with (2) separate devices. If you can record (2) channels at the same time, then the 500 was a great device.

ft
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post #14 of 26 Old 01-11-2007, 07:59 PM
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No, each tuner still could only record one program at a time, it's just you could have both signal sources physically connected at the same time. And dual tuners, at least two 500s, have been unofficially supported and glitch-free for a good long time now. Another advantage of the firewire for some is that if a long daisychain made bus power a little flaky, you could always plug in an optional power adaptor.
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post #15 of 26 Old 01-12-2007, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftaok View Post

The HD+ has NTSC in addition to ATSC/QAM.

WOO HOO! I was waiting for something that had that!

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post #16 of 26 Old 01-12-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:


WOO HOO! I was waiting for something that had that!

Wrong.!!!!!!!!

It has ATSC/NTSC or QAM/NTSC, you can't have both OTA and QAM with their products. They also don't allow you to actually watch/record and entire program in QAM/ATSC because the boxes can't handle the bandwidth properly.

The 500 has ATSC and QAM simultaneously and works as it should.
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post #17 of 26 Old 01-13-2007, 01:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I was actually kidding. The previous poster made it sound like they just added NTSC. And you know we all need that.
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post #18 of 26 Old 01-13-2007, 11:23 AM
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Here's what Miglia's website says about the TVMini HD+

"...This small USB device is the perfect solution for anyone who wants to experience analog CableTV, as well as free-to-air HDTV (ATSC) and unencrypted digital Cable (ClearQAM) on their Mac..."
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post #19 of 26 Old 01-13-2007, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph S View Post

Wrong.!!!!!!!!

It has ATSC/NTSC or QAM/NTSC, you can't have both OTA and QAM with their products. They also don't allow you to actually watch/record and entire program in QAM/ATSC because the boxes can't handle the bandwidth properly.

The 500 has ATSC and QAM simultaneously and works as it should.

Dude,

What's wrong about what I wrote? The information that I've seen have specifically stated that the TVmini HD+ does analog cable (NTSC), ATSC and QAM. What's the controversy?

The original TVmini HD only did ATSC or QAM.

Like chefklc pointed out, with only one coax input, the Miglia products will require the user to swap out antenna/cable connections.

ft
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post #20 of 26 Old 01-13-2007, 12:21 PM
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What's wrong about what I wrote? The information that I've seen have specifically stated that the TVmini HD+ does analog cable (NTSC), ATSC and QAM. What's the controversy?

1) They most likely can't record HDTV content without multiple errors like the TVMiniHD.
2) They don't do all at once because of the single input, it's an either ATSC/NTSC or QAM/NTSC in reality. It's entirely impractical to create a recording schedule based on yourself pulling and replacing the cable.
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post #21 of 26 Old 01-13-2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph S View Post

1) They most likely can't record HDTV content without multiple errors like the TVMiniHD.
2) They don't do all at once because of the single input, it's an either ATSC/NTSC or QAM/NTSC in reality. It's entirely impractical to create a recording schedule based on yourself pulling and replacing the cable.

That's fine, but it wasn't the question that was asked.

The question that was asked was what the difference between the TVmini HD and TVmini HD+ was. And that's what I answered.

I do get the point about the lack of dual inputs being inconvenient, but I'm thinking that most people get their HD either with OTA or QAM, not both, right? At least for me, I get essentially the same line-up with OTA as I do with QAM, with the exception that Universal HD comes in the clear on QAM.

The best thing about the addition of NTSC is that I'd be able to record SD analog stuff and HD without need 2 devices.

As for the problems with Miglia's devices, I can't comment. I don't own anything, yet. I've read stuff that goes both ways. I'm sure the EyeTV 500 is a better device, since I've never read anything really negative about it, but until elGato releases a product that does NTSC/ATSC/QAM, I'm going to have to keep looking. Heck, they still don't have a current product that does QAM ... do you have an extra eyeTV 500 you'd be willing to part with? I'd even go to the point of getting a 500 and a 200 to meet my needs just because they seem to be more reliable.

ft
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post #22 of 26 Old 01-14-2007, 11:06 AM
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Here are some findings from Macworld which I attended on Friday. Not sure any of you will find anything of value here, but here goes :

I asked the people at the Elgato booth about what will replace the EyeTV 500 and they said they have the Hybrid now. But they couldn't comment on anything more. They didn't know.

And while I was at the Miglia booth, I asked about the question of USB2 verse Firewire. And he asked me how my Miglia HD Mini was doing. And mine is actually doing fine with OTA. And he said that's the answer, USB2 is actually capable of more throughput then the HD signal passes. The only time I've had dropped frames is due to my reception. I've tweaked the antenna and it's good now. The Miglia rep said that's what they found of most customers experiences.

And when asked about what's new, it was as dicussed above the Mini HD+.
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post #23 of 26 Old 01-15-2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftaok View Post

I do get the point about the lack of dual inputs being inconvenient, but I'm thinking that most people get their HD either with OTA or QAM, not both, right? At least for me, I get essentially the same line-up with OTA as I do with QAM, with the exception that Universal HD comes in the clear on QAM.

Nope. The local CBS and CW affiliates here in Eastern Iowa doesn't send their HD signals over cable; they're only available OTA. (Actually, as of now, CBS doesn't send ANYTHING over cable because or contract disputes...) And because of where I live in relation to the antennae for all of the locals, I can only pull in 1 or 2 channels at a time OTA without rotating the antenna. Therefore, my antenna is optimized to pick up the OTA station that I can't get over QAM, and I use QAM for the other stations that I want/need to watch (never mind that QAM is much more reliable than OTA where I am).

And if I ever wanted to record a non-HD show (which I'm sure people still do... why ONLY record HD stuff?), I would be doing that over cable, not OTA.

Dual coax inputs are essential as long as the FCC allows Retransmission clauses to exist in contracts instead of Must-Carry clauses.
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post #24 of 26 Old 01-15-2007, 02:39 PM
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Nope. The local CBS and CW affiliates here in Eastern Iowa doesn't send their HD signals over cable; they're only available OTA. (Actually, as of now, CBS doesn't send ANYTHING over cable because or contract disputes...) And because of where I live in relation to the antennae for all of the locals, I can only pull in 1 or 2 channels at a time OTA without rotating the antenna. Therefore, my antenna is optimized to pick up the OTA station that I can't get over QAM, and I use QAM for the other stations that I want/need to watch (never mind that QAM is much more reliable than OTA where I am).

And if I ever wanted to record a non-HD show (which I'm sure people still do... why ONLY record HD stuff?), I would be doing that over cable, not OTA.

Dual coax inputs are essential as long as the FCC allows Retransmission clauses to exist in contracts instead of Must-Carry clauses.

I see. In this case, the Miglia devices won't be too useful for you. More reason for Elgato to make a true replacement for the 500.

If they do, I'll buy two.

ft
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post #25 of 26 Old 01-16-2007, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftaok View Post

I see. In this case, the Miglia devices won't be too useful for you. More reason for Elgato to make a true replacement for the 500.

If they do, I'll buy two.

The problem is that Elgato's current lack of strategy is causing them a loss of mindshare in the marketplace. It's obvious to me that Elgato has no coherent strategy or "focus" going forward. So, anything new they intoduce would be yet another point product. Here today, gone tomorrow, with no replacement.

I desperately want reliable, easy to use QAM HD recording. TiVo S3 won't let me get access to the data, Elgato simply flaked out on the market.

I think the answer for me may well be something like buying an off the shelf MythTV Dragon. It may not be easy to use but it wil record both OTA and QAM without hassles. But the WAF on a solution like that is very very low.
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post #26 of 26 Old 01-16-2007, 10:32 PM
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Can EyeTV work with the new Apple TV device?


Yes, it appears that EyeTV can export any recording so that the Apple TV media player can use it.

Apple's upcoming Apple TV media player uses iTunes as a media management application. EyeTV can already export to iTunes, in an iPod compatible video format (H.264 or MPEG-4), and that video will appear in the TV Shows section of iTunes. In turn, that TV Shows list will be accessible via your TV, using Apple TV.

Currently, EyeTV's iPod exports are in 640 by 480 or 320 by 240 resolution. Since the Apple TV also can receive 720p videos, our engineers will investigate how to best leverage that format as well, with HDTV EyeTV recordings.

The official specifications from Apple are:

H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store):
640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile
320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3
1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile.

MPEG-4:
640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile

Once the Apple TV is shipping in February, then we can have a more definite statement about what video formats EyeTV can give it. Most likely, additional export options will be added to a future EyeTV update, specifically for Apple TV.

At this time, EyeTV's MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 recordings don't meet the specifications for Apple TV's video formats. So, there will always be an export involved, which will take some time - the faster your Mac, the faster the export.

Such exports to iPod format can be automated now, so that when a scheduled recording is completed, it will automatically be exported, and synched with iTunes. From there it can be easily sent to an iPod, or Apple TV.
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