Can you do a "constant height" setup without an anamorphic lens, using a scaler ? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 134 Old 07-21-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

shamus...

After having some major issues updating my firmware, I finally got my Pro updated to 1.02. Looks like that did the trick as I'm no longer getting the garbled screen when I change the screen AR to 2.35:1.

So shamus, since you are using these settings, are you liking them? Are you using a scope screen? I just wanted to test it out on my 16:9 screen to make sure it would work before I invested in a scope.

I had to do a reset and got that garbled screen again. It seemed to automatically send 1080p60 on a BD 1080p24 which when switched back to 1080p24 fixed it.
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post #92 of 134 Old 07-22-2008, 07:00 AM
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shamus...
That makes sense because before I upgraded to 1.02, I couldn't get 24fps passed from my BD30 through the Pro. Now that I can, no more garbled screen.
So I guess I'm not going to be able to use this method for 60fps material?
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post #93 of 134 Old 07-22-2008, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

shamus...
That makes sense because before I upgraded to 1.02, I couldn't get 24fps passed from my BD30 through the Pro. Now that I can, no more garbled screen.
So I guess I'm not going to be able to use this method for 60fps material?

It might be just when you force 24 to 60 cause Ive had no problem playing standard DVD's. I'll test it tonight to make sure.
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post #94 of 134 Old 07-22-2008, 03:02 PM
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shamus...
I see you asked Josh if the application discussed in this thread would be available in the new DVDO Edge. It looks like by his answer it won't be the same (as the VP50Pro) but could still be accomplished? Is that how you read it?
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post #95 of 134 Old 07-22-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro J View Post

shamus...
I see you asked Josh if the application discussed in this thread would be available in the new DVDO Edge. It looks like by his answer it won't be the same (as the VP50Pro) but could still be accomplished? Is that how you read it?

Thats how I read it. Looks like it may be a little more involved unlike the Pro, where you literally just select what aspect you want and the screen slowly widens (or shrinks) into place.
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post #96 of 134 Old 07-23-2008, 06:13 AM
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Yeah, I hope it's not too cumbersome doing it with the Edge. I'd love to save some bucks and go from the Pro to the Edge. It looks like the Edge has many of the same features.
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post #97 of 134 Old 07-23-2008, 02:50 PM
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I'm interested too in the EDGE capabilities ;-)

What I understand (but I'm French ;-)) is you can do the same using the zoom and pan functions.

But zoom on the VP50Pro (as written in its user manual) have a range from 100% to 150% and we need a zoom of less than 100% to fit 16/9 on our 2.35 screen.

Maybe the EDGE will have the capability to do that, but the VP50Pro can't that way...

Richard.
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post #98 of 134 Old 07-23-2008, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlemesle View Post

I'm interested too in the EDGE capabilities ;-)

What I understand (but I'm French ;-)) is you can do the same using the zoom and pan functions.

But zoom on the VP50Pro (as written in its user manual) have a range from 100% to 150% and we need a zoom of less than 100% to fit 16/9 on our 2.35 screen.

Maybe the EDGE will have the capability to do that, but the VP50Pro can't that way...

Richard.

Richard, I'm not sure but I think you're saying that the Pro can't do the v-stretch but the Edge can? If this is so then you're incorrect.

The Edge has a sub-set of the capabilities of the Pro as I understand it. But both will handle the vertical stretch required for CIH. At least that's my understanding. Then again, I could be right, I'm British!

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post #99 of 134 Old 07-23-2008, 11:41 PM
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This is not what I'm saying.

First, to do CIH without an anamorphic lens with a scaler, we don't need vertical stretch (and I don't think the EDGE can do V-strech), we just need zoom, pan and memory for these.

On the VP50Pro, there is a way to do it simply by saying the output ratio of the display (16/9 for example) and the output ratio of the screen (2.35:1 for example). This capability is missing on the EDGE.

An other way to do that is to "play" with zoom and pan. VP50Pro has these functionalities, but not with a range allowing us to do CIH setup without an anamorphic lens since zoom minimum is 100% and we need about 80% to reduce the 16/9 image in order to stay in the 2.35:1 screen.

Such negative zoom (zoom < 100%) is called Underscan and exists only on VPxx products and is only referenced in the VP30, VP50 and VP50Pro (according user manuals).

Richard
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post #100 of 134 Old 07-24-2008, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlemesle View Post

This is not what I'm saying.

First, to do CIH without an anamorphic lens with a scaler, we don't need vertical stretch (and I don't think the EDGE can do V-strech), we just need zoom, pan and memory for these.

On the VP50Pro, there is a way to do it simply by saying the output ratio of the display (16/9 for example) and the output ratio of the screen (2.35:1 for example). This capability is missing on the EDGE.

An other way to do that is to "play" with zoom and pan. VP50Pro has these functionalities, but not with a range allowing us to do CIH setup without an anamorphic lens since zoom minimum is 100% and we need about 80% to reduce the 16/9 image in order to stay in the 2.35:1 screen.

Such negative zoom (zoom < 100%) is called Underscan and exists only on VPxx products and is only referenced in the VP30, VP50 and VP50Pro (according user manuals).

Richard

Ah, thanks Richard for the clarification. I learn new things every day on this forum!

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post #101 of 134 Old 07-24-2008, 07:21 AM
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I just have a response from Josh and it's positive !

The EDGE have the same underscan functionality as the VP30, VP50 and VP50Pro.

Great news !

Richard.
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post #102 of 134 Old 07-24-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlemesle View Post

I just have a response from Josh and it's positive !

The EDGE have the same underscan functionality as the VP30, VP50 and VP50Pro.

Great news !

Richard.

So it has a higher percentage of overscan than the VP's?
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post #103 of 134 Old 07-24-2008, 11:40 AM
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I don't know the range of the underscan parameter.

Can you try on your VP50Pro with Display Aspect Ratio 16/9, Screen Aspect Ratio 16/9 and use underscan to see if 16/9 movie can be reduce to enter in your 2.35:1 screen ?

Richard.
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post #104 of 134 Old 07-24-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlemesle View Post

I don't know the range of the underscan parameter.

Can you try on your VP50Pro with Display Aspect Ratio 16/9, Screen Aspect Ratio 16/9 and use underscan to see if 16/9 movie can be reduce to enter in your 2.35:1 screen ?

Richard.

I will.
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post #105 of 134 Old 07-24-2008, 12:00 PM
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I'm interested in using the Edge for this, but isn't 'underscan' going to cut off wanted parts of the image rather than shrinking it? I''d love to be able to have a push button instant AR change for menus and trailers.

Although I use the zoom method at the moment I intend to get a HE lens later this year so I need to consider how useful the Edge would be then. I suppose then I would need a way of switching from V Stretch to H squeeze for 16:9 with the lens still in place? As my PJ does V Stretch I could leave it in this mode and just use the Edge's shrink mode if we can confirm it can do this with a single button press? For 24p BluRay 2.35:1 AR I would use the bypass mode of the edge.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #106 of 134 Old 07-24-2008, 05:26 PM
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Yeah, I think Kelvin is right. I tried the underscan on my Pro and yes it reduced the 16:9 image down but it also started cutting off the sides of the image too. For me, it didn't seem to work the same way as the "shrink" method.
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post #107 of 134 Old 07-25-2008, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlemesle View Post

I don't know the range of the underscan parameter.

Can you try on your VP50Pro with Display Aspect Ratio 16/9, Screen Aspect Ratio 16/9 and use underscan to see if 16/9 movie can be reduce to enter in your 2.35:1 screen ?

Richard.

Wont work.
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post #108 of 134 Old 07-25-2008, 03:38 AM
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Thanks for the test !

So, the EDGE will probably not be a good choice for what we want...

Bad news...

What happens when you use underscan ?

And does zoom can be less than 100% ?

Thanks again,

Richard.
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post #109 of 134 Old 07-25-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlemesle View Post

Thanks for the test !

So, the EDGE will probably not be a good choice for what we want...

Bad news...

What happens when you use underscan ?

And does zoom can be less than 100% ?

Thanks again,

Richard.

Underscan only get you about 75% of the way there.
Zoom goes the other way.

Josh said it will work, and I believe him. He says it wont be as plug and play as the pro (just change the aspect button). The edge might require multiple saves like what the Lumagen does. I certainly wouldn't rule it out yet.
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post #110 of 134 Old 09-01-2008, 11:44 AM
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What are u guys doing for 2.40 stuff? Zoom it out by lens? By VP? Or just leave it alone?
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post #111 of 134 Old 09-01-2008, 04:28 PM
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It doesn't seem like there are many of us using this method. I don't think people realize how well it can work.(Maybe it seems too good to be true?)

For 2.40 stuff, I wouldn't want to zoom with the lens. For me, it would defeat the purpose of never having to touch the projector. I have it set up so I can zoom with the VP and it doesn't seem to affect PQ. Sometimes I use it and sometimes I leave it alone, depending on the movie.
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post #112 of 134 Old 09-01-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5mark View Post

It doesn't seem like there are many of us using this method. I don't think people realize how well it can work.(Maybe it seems too good to be true?)

For 2.40 stuff, I wouldn't want to zoom with the lens. For me, it would defeat the purpose of never having to touch the projector. I have it set up so I can zoom with the VP and it doesn't seem to affect PQ. Sometimes I use it and sometimes I leave it alone, depending on the movie.

Thats what I was doing too. Thanks.
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post #113 of 134 Old 09-04-2008, 04:30 PM
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From reading this thread and the DVDO "Edge" thread, it does not appear that it will have the funtionality to work in the manner needed, but what about this as a budget solution? Is anybody using the Key Digital HDMI switcher in this manner?
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post #114 of 134 Old 09-05-2008, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

From reading this thread and the DVDO "Edge" thread, it does not appear that it will have the funtionality to work in the manner needed, but what about this as a budget solution? Is anybody using the Key Digital HDMI switcher in this manner?

Probably not...
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post #115 of 134 Old 09-05-2008, 09:24 PM
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Probably not...

OK, I didn't think so since I didn't see a shrink function in the Key Digital owners manual like the Lumagen has, nor an output for screen size like the DVDO has.

So, from what I read in this thread both the DVDO vp50 and the Lumagen HDP has the necessary funtions and features, and I can get both at the about the same price. Which would you guys recommend getting? It will be used with a JVC RS1 projector.

Thanks
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post #116 of 134 Old 09-05-2008, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

OK, I didn't think so since I didn't see a shrink function in the Key Digital owners manual like the Lumagen has, nor an output for screen size like the DVDO has.

So, from what I read in this thread both the DVDO vp50 and the Lumagen HDP has the necessary funtions and features, and I can get both at the about the same price. Which would you guys recommend getting? It will be used with a JVC RS1 projector.

Thanks

Thats a tough call.
It seems to me that the Pro is a little more user friendly with this method. I also think that the Pro is a better all round VP than the HDP... but it is also more expensive.
The pro doesnt have a CMS (maybe in the future), the HDP does ... I think (but its very basic).

If you plan on sticking with the RS1, than did you think about the RSVP2 (JVC's VP50pro that fixes the colors)?? (even more expensive, but I love it!)

But than I would think if Im investing that much money, maybe I should upgrade to the new JVC RS20.... but than youre back to where you started.
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post #117 of 134 Old 09-06-2008, 08:39 AM
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But than I would think if Im investing that much money, maybe I should upgrade to the new JVC RS20.... but than youre back to where you started.


Wow, I didn't even hear about this new JVC RS20 model. I better head over to the projector forum before I make any decision.
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post #118 of 134 Old 09-06-2008, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by phisch View Post

Wow, I didn't even hear about this new JVC RS20 model. I better head over to the projector forum before I make any decision.

Its definetly something you should consider... but of course your back to where you started without an auto aspect ratio zoom. (though it does have manual I believe)
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post #119 of 134 Old 09-06-2008, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

So, from what I read in this thread both the DVDO vp50 and the Lumagen HDP has the necessary funtions and features, and I can get both at the about the same price. Which would you guys recommend getting? It will be used with a JVC RS1 projector.

Thanks

I'll add that the basic CMS on the HDP does do a nice job of taming the RS1 colors. And it also has greyscale/gamma controls which several members have reported nice improvements using (I'm getting around to it...)

The downsides are it's DVI only and certainly less user friendly and tougher to set up.
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post #120 of 134 Old 01-08-2009, 02:46 AM
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If the DVDO Edge could just have an option in its setup menu to change the function of the 4:3 Letterbox aspect button to function as a 33% shrink then this would be a KILLER app for CIH sans lens.


The thing people here want is to zoom out their projector to fill their 2.35:1 screen.

When 2.35:1 material is projected the image fills the 2.35:1 screen with the black bars projected outside the frame. This is well known as the zoom method.

When normal 16:9 material is projected (with the zoom position unchanged) the image still fills the width of the 2.35:1 screen but the top and bottom of the image spill off the frame (ie. where the black bars are in 2.35 material).

Now if there was a button on the EDGE (or reassigned 4:3LB button) which could just instantly shrink the entire image down to fill the centre of the screen by 33% then the 16:9 material would be correctly situated in the 2.35:1 screen with the side masks.

The reason it seems possible is that when you press the 4:3 button... the image width shrinks by 33% to the correct width but the height stays the same. If the height was also proportionally shrunk then this would be accomplished.

Simple as that. Surely it could be done. Surely it must be done...
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