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post #31 of 96 Old 07-03-2009, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't researched subs as far as everything else I've looked at.

From a trying-to-bring-budget-back-under-control perspective, if I stick with what's available from my buddy at dealer-cost pricing, then the brands I have access to are:

* Atlantic Technology
* Niles
* Velodyne
* Polk Audio
* Artison

From general reviews I've read, SVS and HSU seem to be a couple of the better brands for the buck.

Given the rest of my currently proposed setup, any recommendations?

Thanks,
Jay
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post #32 of 96 Old 07-03-2009, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Just so I don't get lost in the piece part details, given the dollars I'm spending, could I have a better overall HT experience if I shuffled things around differently (shuffling $$ from projector to other equipment for example)?

Looking at a snapshot of where I am right now:

Projector: RS20 - 48% of equipment spend
Screen: 120" AT screen from Seymour AV - 13%
AV Receiver: Yamaha RX-V3900 - 17%
Speakers: Atlantic Technology - 19.5%
in-wall 727's x3 for LCR, in-wall IWTS-30 SR surrounds, in-ceiling ICTS-8.3e rear surrounds
Blu-Ray player: Panasonic BD60 - 2%

No sub selected yet. Assuming I spend ~$500 on the sub, that puts me $1K over my proposed budget. That's all fine. Just wanted to make sure I'm maximizing our HT experience relative to what we are spending.

Thanks!
Jay
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post #33 of 96 Old 07-03-2009, 11:52 AM
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I'd divert more money to the sub. Having a big low end for an HT is one of the bigger bangs for the buck. $500 won't get you very far in terms of solid bass. Also, instead of buying speakers new, I'd peruse audiogon for deals on better speakers.
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post #34 of 96 Old 07-03-2009, 12:19 PM
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I think a $500 SVS PC-12 NSD or PB12-NSD would do just fine for his setup.
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post #35 of 96 Old 07-03-2009, 01:21 PM
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I have had Velodyne and have a SVS cylinder, but if I were starting form scratch today, I would get an Epik Sentinel or Dragon (Dragon is physically bigger).

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/products.html

It sounds like you are set on speakers, but the cherry-colored Energy speakers on closeout at Vann's appear to be asteal.. Also the focal inwalls at 60% off at Zalytron would be impressive.
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post #36 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 12:03 AM
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I find it interesting that a number of folks who tried the zoom method found it such a PITA. I've been zooming for over a year (although without a screen, on a wall, but with markings for AR sizes) and it is ridiculously easy. Takes seconds. Even with manual zooms.

I can understand why someone would want it to be even easier - just a push of a button on their universal remote control. But a royal pain in the butt, I don't quite get.
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post #37 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 05:32 AM
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I think the PITA thing is subjective varying from person to person. I can understand why some people hate it... also depending on if people have motorized zoom/shift vs. manual, etc. Myself, I do find it a "pain" but it's obviously not THAT bad since I just sold my panamorph to go back to zoom and don't plan on returning to a lens unless my next projector requires it.
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post #38 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 05:52 AM
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Some pjs need the lens shift as well as the zoom, and if the Optoma H78 was anything to go by, getting the image in place using the lens shift was a bit of a nightmare. If you can get away just using the zoom I can see that would be a lot quicker and easier (a matter of seconds).

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post #39 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocoloco View Post

I think the PITA thing is subjective varying from person to person. I can understand why some people hate it... also depending on if people have motorized zoom/shift vs. manual, etc. Myself, I do find it a "pain" but it's obviously not THAT bad since I just sold my panamorph to go back to zoom and don't plan on returning to a lens unless my next projector requires it.

Did you sell the panamorph to help fund other upgrades or IQ or something else? Just curious because I haven't read too many cases where folks went back to zoom after having a lens.

Jay
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post #40 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolette View Post

Did you sell the panamorph to help fund other upgrades or IQ or something else? Just curious because I haven't read too many cases where folks went back to zoom after having a lens.

Jay

I sold it because zooming looked better to me and I could put up with the inconvenience of zooming. If someone gave me a free new lens (even an isco 3), I still wouldn't use it. I mean, I would gladly take it, but I would not use it

Here's what I think are reasons to get a lens:
- it's required because your projector can't zoom
- convenience factor. Zooming is a pita. Automated setups
- huge screen/close viewing distance and you need the extra pixels (which equates to better PQ)
- cool factor

And in the future if there are anamorphic blurays... then another reason to use a lens would be to fully resolve the source
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post #41 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I find it interesting that a number of folks who tried the zoom method found it such a PITA. I've been zooming for over a year (although without a screen, on a wall, but with markings for AR sizes) and it is ridiculously easy. Takes seconds. Even with manual zooms.

I can understand why someone would want it to be even easier - just a push of a button on their universal remote control. But a royal pain in the butt, I don't quite get.

Where's your projector mounted? Is it ceiling mounted above your reach? Do you have to drag a stepstool out to adjust the lens? Are the focus and zoom rings on your projector lens well separated such that you never bump the focus while adjusting the zoom? Do you have to pause the movie while you put the stool away so no one will trip over it? I had to do all of that for my previous setup that I used for the past 5 years, and while it isn't a herculean task, it did take ~40 seconds from start to finish and it became such a nuisance, that sometimes I didn't even bother to adjust - just left it zoomed out.

Now I've got the Panny AE3000 and absolutely love the lens memory. Just two button presses (and 10 seconds), I'm done without ever lifting my lazy butt off the seat. To be fair, the new projector also is in a much more convenient location (sits on an audio pier right behind the sofa, so manually zooming would also be much easier than my previous setup.
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post #42 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocoloco View Post

I sold it because zooming looked better to me and I could put up with the inconvenience of zooming

Wild curiosity, what was better? And what's your projector?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #43 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Wild curiosity, what was better? And what's your projector?

Projector is an RS10/HD350. Sitting 14ft from a roughly 9ft wide scope screen. With the UH380, the image was a tad softer, CA was slightly worse at the edges of the image... and of course slight pincushion distortion. This is not to say that the image was bad... I'm picking nits here... but if I'm willing to zoom, there was no reason to put up with the teeny bit (some might argue negligible) of distortion the lens introduced. Less is actually more in my case. I emphasize MY CASE. YMMV.
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post #44 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 02:26 PM
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I'm surprised it was softer. CA is tricky, since with the better lenses, they just stretch the PJ's CA not adding any of their own, and well pincushion is par for the course, but I'd not expect it to be noticeable in anything but test patterns.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #45 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 02:33 PM
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Yup, I tried the lens at different throws and the image remain somewhat softer. Maybe it's due the lack of astigmatism correction. Whether or not the lens itself introduced more CA, the CA does get worse with the lens in place. As for the pincushion, I notice it on most movie menus where there are usually horizontal lines of some sort and that bugs me.
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post #46 of 96 Old 07-05-2009, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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After ya'lls suggestions and all the reading I've done on subs (and might I say, some of you folks are just NUTS! ), I landed on the SVS PB13-Ultra.

Here's the lineup as of now:

Projector: JVC DLA-RS20
Screen: Seymour AV F120 (120" wide, 130.4" diagonal)
AV Receiver: Yamaha RX-V3900
Speakers:
* LCR: Atlantic Technology IWCB-727-S x3 (in-walls)
* Surround: ATL IWTS-30 SR (in-walls)
* Rear Surround: ATL ICTS-8.3e (in-ceiling)
* Subwoofer: SVS PB13-Ultra
Blu-Ray Player: Panasonic DMP-BD60

That puts me in around $12.1K.

Any last minute "don't jumps!" before I start getting quotes and ordering equipment?

Thanks,
Jay
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post #47 of 96 Old 07-06-2009, 02:33 PM
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I've been obsessing over CIH projection for months now. The way I understand it, if I line up the horizontal centerline of the screen with the projector centerline - in other words, no lens shift - I'll be able to zoom and not have the image shift off screen. This would work in my theater as long as Marge Simpson (with all that blue hair) doesn't visit.

I'm pretty well settled on an RS20 and Elite CineTension 2 screen. For now anyway.

I've got a few months of construction ahead of me so no hurry to finalize the equipment list.

High Desert Theater - work in progress
Building Bass - Subs

Surrounds - Easy as Pi

Storage - unRAID unDELL

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post #48 of 96 Old 07-06-2009, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

I've been obsessing over CIH projection for months now. The way I understand it, if I line up the horizontal centerline of the screen with the projector centerline - in other words, no lens shift - I'll be able to zoom and not have the image shift off screen. This would work in my theater as long as Marge Simpson (with all that blue hair) doesn't visit.

I don't think it's quite that simple. AFAIK all (or at least most) HT projectors zoom with one edge constant, not the center constant. What that means is effectively, as you zoom "in" the picture shifts down (assuming a ceiling mount), so you need to both zoom and shift. The RS20 might be different, I've not followed it closely.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #49 of 96 Old 07-06-2009, 06:27 PM
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[quote=rolette;16754426]


The CA and distortion from prism-based "lenses" will eat at my soul. Moving up to an ISCO or Schneider lens is outside of my budget given everything else that I have to get.


Rolette:

my "soul' must not be as discriminating as yours...I just cannot see on a real movie any sign of pincushion or CA using my (very reasonably priced) Aussiemorphic Mark3 lens, with a ~2.0 throw ratio. This anamorphic lens has CA correction, and shows only a slight hint of color splitting on the outer edges of a projected white grid pattern. Again, totally impossible to see on a real image. I'm personally going to go with a curved screen (~36 ft radius), but my present 2.35:1 flat screen works very well to start, but I'm looking forward to the enhanced "cool" factor of my HT with a curved screen...

good luck on your final setup!

Larry
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post #50 of 96 Old 07-06-2009, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolette View Post

Any last minute "don't jumps!" before I start getting quotes and ordering equipment?

Thanks,
Jay


Regarding the BD player...if you haven't seen the thread yet on the new Philips player that allows shifting of sub-titles, you might want to check it out, and hang on for a little while to see how this works out with Philips and other manufacturers. I was an early adopter of the Panny BD-30, which has been a flawless performer for me since its introduction, so the BD-60 is likely a great choice. I'm just looking forward to having the sub-title problem handled in the BD player in the near future. The ST on "Gran Torino" the other nite had second lines below the picture, and so were not visible on my full 2.35 image, whereas tonite I watched "Traitor" (good movie!) and the ST were on the picture, luckily...but I sure am looking forward to having the choice! :-)

Larry
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post #51 of 96 Old 07-09-2009, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrychief View Post

Regarding the BD player...if you haven't seen the thread yet on the new Philips player that allows shifting of sub-titles, you might want to check it out, and hang on for a little while to see how this works out with Philips and other manufacturers. I was an early adopter of the Panny BD-30, which has been a flawless performer for me since its introduction, so the BD-60 is likely a great choice. I'm just looking forward to having the sub-title problem handled in the BD player in the near future. The ST on "Gran Torino" the other nite had second lines below the picture, and so were not visible on my full 2.35 image, whereas tonite I watched "Traitor" (good movie!) and the ST were on the picture, luckily...but I sure am looking forward to having the choice! :-)

Larry

Thanks, Larry.

I have read the thread and it doesn't sound like it's available in the US yet. I'm not overly concerned about the subtitle problem... Those make up a pretty small percentage of the movies we watch.

Jay
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post #52 of 96 Old 07-09-2009, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Now that I'm working on acquiring equipment (woot!), I realized a couple more things that I need to figure out.

1) Recommendations for a ceiling mount for the RS20? I've seen several references to Chief Mounts, but really don't know anything beyond a name at this point.

2) I've been using a Harmony 890 (the one with RF) for the last couple of years for the equipment in my living room. I absolutely love the ease of programming and the RF capability. That said, the ergonomics good be better -- it's definitely doesn't handle as well as the Tivo remote.

The comparisons I've seen between the 890/880 and Harmony 1 are mixed.

I'm assuming I need RF given a ceiling mount projector + equipment rack in the back of the room, but I've seen other folks suggest that might not be necessary. Any recommendations here?

Thanks!
Jay
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post #53 of 96 Old 07-09-2009, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolette View Post

Now that I'm working on acquiring equipment (woot!), I realized a couple more things that I need to figure out.

1) Recommendations for a ceiling mount for the RS20? I've seen several references to Chief Mounts, but really don't know anything beyond a name at this point.

2) I've been using a Harmony 890 (the one with RF) for the last couple of years for the equipment in my living room. I absolutely love the ease of programming and the RF capability. That said, the ergonomics good be better -- it's definitely doesn't handle as well as the Tivo remote.

The comparisons I've seen between the 890/880 and Harmony 1 are mixed.

I'm assuming I need RF given a ceiling mount projector + equipment rack in the back of the room, but I've seen other folks suggest that might not be necessary. Any recommendations here?

Thanks!
Jay


Jay:

The Chief mount is excellent, IMO; I purchased mine in 2000 for my Sony VW10HT, and of course it fit perfectly for my present Sony VW60. I think it is extremely easy to mount and de-mount the projector, and to align it, so pls consider this a recommendation.

I agree also on the Harmony 890; my issue is the ergonomics, and I especially have issues with the tiny icons, and the display in general. I always use my TiVo controller for whenever I'm watching playbacks, because it is just great in terms of ease of operation. I guess I'll replace the 890 sometime soon with something else...not sure what to consider yet...

Larry
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post #54 of 96 Old 07-09-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I don't think it's quite that simple. AFAIK all (or at least most) HT projectors zoom with one edge constant, not the center constant. What that means is effectively, as you zoom "in" the picture shifts down (assuming a ceiling mount), so you need to both zoom and shift. The RS20 might be different, I've not followed it closely.

True, but I believe petew is mounting his projector dead nuts center of screen, so he's correct that shift isn't necessary. In fact, that's pretty much how my setup works - only need to adjust zoom.
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post #55 of 96 Old 07-18-2009, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Woot! First couple of boxes showed up at the house today (receiver and player).

I made a last minute audible and ended up getting the Oppo instead of the BD60 player.

Sub should be here next week. Screen is ordered, but no ship date yet. Hopefully will get everything else ordered early next week.

Jay
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post #56 of 96 Old 07-18-2009, 05:31 PM
 
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Hey jay,
I highly reccommend a Universal Brand Remote.
a tiny bit harder to program but much better when done than a Harmony.

Scott
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post #57 of 96 Old 07-18-2009, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Scott,

Someone else recommended I look at RTI. Any thoughts on their remotes? I haven't had a chance to crawl through their website just yet.

Ideally I'd like something with the hand ergonomics of a Tivo remote + the activity-based usability of Harmony (critical so the rest of the family can use the system) + rock-solid reliability without having to be careful about where I aim the remote.

Serious bonus points for ease of programming so I don't have to either pay someone else to do it or spend half of my Saturday working on it anytime I change equipment around.

Thanks,
Jay
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post #58 of 96 Old 07-18-2009, 09:02 PM
 
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An installer friend of mine said RTI is great but one step harder to program.
He said it's extremely expandable.
Either will be harder than a Harmony but once done will be better.

If you want to get confused more go to www.remotecentral.com


Good luck.
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post #59 of 96 Old 07-19-2009, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Doh! Just realized that "Universal Brand Remote" was a specific recommendation. I'm dense sometimes

Thanks for the link, Scott. Back into research mode!

Jay
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post #60 of 96 Old 09-14-2009, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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After all the great advice I got here, I didn't want to just fade away without mentioning how FANTASTIC this all worked out!

There are still a few things left to do before it's "done", but we are watching movies in our HT and are absolutely in love with the setup. Unless there is a movie we absolutely can't wait to release on BD, I just don't see us ever going to the theater again.

A few things that had a much bigger impact on our movie watching experience than I expected:

* Cinescope screen - I was a little nervous about going CIH (zoom style), but wow... can't imagine anything else now!

* AT screen - Given I'm not (or should that be "wasn't"?) a hard-core movie buff, I thought this would be more about a clean look. It surprised me how much better it is having the front speakers behind the screen. We watched a couple of movies with the screen mounted before we had the speakers installed, so I got to do an A/B comparison. Much bigger difference than I would have ever guessed.

* SVS PB-13 Ultra sub - Major kudos to the wise sage that told me to put more of my budget into the sub! While they didn't recommend going quite this far down the rabbit hole, HOLY GUACAMOLE! I'm in love

* Integrated light control - Not as big as the other stuff, but hitting play and having the lights gradually dim down is just cool

Not to dismiss the awesome PQ from the RS20, but I expected what I got on that one.

Those that have been doing HT for a while will probably dismiss this as "well, duh!", but diving head first into this like I did, I thought I'd point out the surprising stuff for other newbs like me.

A few things left to get done:

1) Furniture! Very ghetto right now
2) Need an equipment rack so things aren't just stacked up in the niche
3) Fine tune the programming on the remote
4) RS20 calibration once I get a few more hours on the bulb

Thanks again for all the excellent advice folks!

Jay
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