Who's Running >130" Wide Scope with Sub-$10K Projectors and HAPPY? - AVS Forum
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Just want to know who's running a 130" wide scope screen or wider with a projector below the $10K mark and are very happy with the result in a light controlled room?

If you are, can you provide your setup (pj, screen size, gain, throw ratio, etc.) and/or possible screen shots?
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:34 PM
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Been using the following for just over a year. We've been very happy with the setup.

Marantz 15S1
SMX Screen (130"x54") gain 1.16
Panamorph UH440 (throw ratio 2.1)

Sorry, no screen shots.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:56 PM
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I have been running Two 2004 vintage VDC Marquee 8500 ultra Longbow PJ's(CRT's) in a blend configuration onto a 144 inch wide scope Screen. i am using 2 Tv-One C2-2250 Video processors that have edge blending abilities. These can also be used with digitals
but CRT's benefit the most as your able to use the full phosphor area of the 4:3 tube which results in a 2.4 aspect when blended.
the set up was under 7k total. I plan to move to a 13 foot wide Hurley unity gain screen in early 2010.











Athanasios
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:08 PM
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I may let you know soon. Right now, I am running a Titan Hd-250 3 Chip on a 16 foot wide scope screen. I guess technically it is NOW sub $10,000.00 due to resale value.

Seriously, though, I am looking at replacing my screen with a high gain, slightly smaller screen. Probably around 14' wide or so. And I am looking at option for 1080p projectors like the JVCs or similar. I am interested in how a 720p 3 chip compares to a 1080p LCOS or LCD. Will report my findings to you and will keep an eye on this thread for other replys.
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:41 PM
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From what I understand the HP [high power] screens require the PJ height to be somewhere in the middle of the screen. If you mount the PJ higher [say a cieling mount] you loose much of the screen gain.

Again I'd go to the SCREEN forum since those guys have forgot more that I ever will know...

I have a contact in Florida [near Miami] that might be able to help you. Not sure how close that is to you.

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

Eastern Shore of Maryland

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Old 12-23-2009, 07:13 PM
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You are correct. My projector is in a separate booth behind a wall at the back of the room and it is mounted slightly above center line of the screen.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:45 PM
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i'm happy with 170" wide.

currently running sim2 ht380, no screen, uh480 lens, 1.5 TR (16ft away):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6isTCYBaW0

Current Projects:
IN PROGRESS (80%) - Building 3D Theater room.
IN PROGRESS (30%) - Building Lounge/Hallway Area.
IN PROGRESS (15%) - Building Home LAN (4 PCs).
ON HOLD - Building Home Gym.
ON HOLD - Building Simulation Room (Eyefinity).
ON HOLD - Building Theater room (Sim2 HT380, 2.35 14ft wide).
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Old 12-23-2009, 11:54 PM
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Infocus SP 777 3 chip 720P
SMX 130x55
Panamorph 380

Throughly enjoy it.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTopDown View Post

Just want to know who's running a 130" wide scope screen or wider with a projector below the $10K mark and are very happy with the result in a light controlled room?

If you are, can you provide your setup (pj, screen size, gain, throw ratio, etc.) and/or possible screen shots?

Panny AE3000u
130" x 54"
behr silverscreen paint
21' throw

no screen shots
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:27 AM
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Installed a friend/client's new lens today.

His system:

SONY WV60
CAVX MK4 anamorphic lens
OzTS 137.5" x 58" with Evo3D (1.2 Gain)
TR just 1.4:1

no screen shots

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
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Old 12-24-2009, 06:25 AM
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Wow that's one hell of a short throw, how's the pincushion on that?

There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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Old 12-24-2009, 06:49 AM
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130" 2.35 AT SMX Procurve
Panny AE3000U

Screen shots here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1148971&page=3
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Wow that's one hell of a short throw, how's the pincushion on that?

With a desk top or test pattern (grid) you can really see the curvature in the horizontal so finding the right amount of tilt was pretty important to even that out top to bottom. Watching an actual film is of course another story and looked very impressive. He was ecstatic once the astigmatism correction was set as both vertical and horizontal lines were brought into focus at the same time. The image was as sharp with out the lens as it was with it in the light path.

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:23 PM
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JVC RS35
Panamorph UH480
Seymour AV Centerstage XD 54" X 130"

rated 1.2 gain but UMR measured it at just under unity gain. I highly doubt any woven AT screens measure over 1.0 gain.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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Old 12-24-2009, 12:43 PM
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Panny 4000u
60"x144" WilsonArt DW with electric curtains for masking
Wojtek
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Old 12-24-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

With a desk top or test pattern (grid) you can really see the curvature in the horizontal so finding the right amount of tilt was pretty important to even that out top to bottom. Watching an actual film is of course another story and looked very impressive. He was ecstatic once the astigmatism correction was set as both vertical and horizontal lines were brought into focus at the same time. The image was as sharp with out the lens as it was with it in the light path.

Is that with a curved screen or can you get perfect focus also on a flat one with that throw ratio?

If it is a curved screen, is it made for his particular amount of pincushion or is it an off-the-shelf screen?

Thanks!
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Old 12-24-2009, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

JVC RS35
Panamorph UH480
Seymour AV Centerstage XD 54" X 130"

rated 1.2 gain but UMR measured it at just under unity gain. I highly doubt any woven AT screens measure over 1.0 gain.


how you liked it, with the panamorph?
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:16 PM
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very much. i would like to get an ISCO III (because they are acclaimed to be the best) at some point, but I really can't criticize the Panamorph at all.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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Old 12-25-2009, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies thus far. Lots of great information and feedback. I hope to hear from others! Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year to all!
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:41 PM
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I miss by 1"

HP 129x54
Marantz VP8600
Prismasonic HD5000R

Plenty bright with 700 hours on lamp. Some ambient light.
Pj mounted 20" above screen center
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Old 12-25-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

Is that with a curved screen or can you get perfect focus also on a flat one with that throw ratio?

If it is a curved screen, is it made for his particular amount of pincushion or is it an off-the-shelf screen?

Thanks!

The 150" Scope screen is flat. The benifit of the cylindrical lens is that the front element shifts in or out to allow you bring both H and V lines into focus at the same time. Pincushion is a bi-product of HE lenses.

My 100" screen is curved and the curve is adjustable top and bottom to match the pinushion at a particular throw, so I have straight lines.

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:32 AM
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Infocus 777
138x58
Panamorph UH380

Brighness - no issue. I am at 1389 lamp hrs.

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Old 12-26-2009, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

The 150" Scope screen is flat. The benifit of the cylindrical lens is that the front element shifts in or out to allow you bring both H and V lines into focus at the same time. Pincushion is a bi-product of HE lenses.

My 100" screen is curved and the curve is adjustable top and bottom to match the pinushion at a particular throw, so I have straight lines.

Thanks for your answer and I don't doubt that you're right! However, there is something that doesn't make sense to me. It might be that I have misunderstood something. If I write my thoughts about it, maybe you can make sense if it?

Projectors have an optimum focus at a fixed distance from the lens (the distance depending on the focus setting of course). The plane of focus is therefore curved. However, since the depth of field is quite large you are still able to get excellent focus across the entire image also on a flat screen.

When an anamorphic lens is introduced the depth of field is greatly reduced and you might need a curved screen to allow for perfect focus. This is getting worse the shorter the throw is.

If this is true I don't understand how you can get perfect focus across a flat surface by adjusting the front element of the lens. I.e. you're adjusting the focal length of the horizontal dimension, but you can't have two different focal lengths at the same time (screen edge and center). Hence a curved screen is needed to bring the whole image in focus.


So, either there's quite a good depth of field even with the HE-lens in place, or I have gotten something wrong with my understanding of optics.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

Thanks for your answer and I don't doubt that you're right! However, there is something that doesn't make sense to me. It might be that I have misunderstood something. If I write my thoughts about it, maybe you can make sense if it?

OK

Quote:


Projectors have an optimum focus at a fixed distance from the lens (the distance depending on the focus setting of course). The plane of focus is therefore curved. However, since the depth of field is quite large you are still able to get excellent focus across the entire image also on a flat screen.

Agreed

Quote:


When an anamorphic lens is introduced the depth of field is greatly reduced and you might need a curved screen to allow for perfect focus. This is getting worse the shorter the throw is.

Not 100% sure where that came from. The depth of field should not change. The need for a curved screen is not to correct focus, it is to correct pincusion. Pincushion has concave top and bottom edges and looks like a bow tie (very crude I know).Given the light beam height is taller at the edges than in the centre, curving the screen (bringing the edges out) means that those portions of the screen are now closer to the projector, hence the light beam height is reduced at those sections as well. The curved lines are not straight.

Quote:



If this is true I don't understand how you can get perfect focus across a flat surface by adjusting the front element of the lens. I.e. you're adjusting the focal length of the horizontal dimension, but you can't have two different focal lengths at the same time (screen edge and center). Hence a curved screen is needed to bring the whole image in focus.

Good optics are complex using many elements. An anamorphic lens is much simpler in design. You start by making sure that the projector is in focus. You add the lens and make the astigmatism adjustment. This changes the distance between the front and rear lenses and compensates for the fact that there are differenent focal distances from the projector to the screen (due to the curve). As you make the adjustment, you will see H and V lines come in and out of focus. This focus shift is not as radical as rocking the projectors primary lens. One you get the H and V lines in focus across the screen, the entire image will maintain focus across the screen, however it all starts with the projector's primary lens.

Quote:


So, either there's quite a good depth of field even with the HE-lens in place, or I have gotten something wrong with my understanding of optics.

The distance between the centre and the edges of my curved screen would be less than 75mm (3") across 2400mm (8 feet). You can see the curve when looking across the screen from one edge, however from the seating position, the only real tell tale is the horizontal masking has a slight bow when the lights are on.

So the distance between the centre and the edges of the 1.78:1 width are not that great as to affect focus from the projector's primary. What you see with the lens removed is barreling where the ends of the image are shorter than the centre. The image is still in focus at this point, it just has convex top and bottom edges. If the image was out at the edges, then an anamorphic lens could not refocus that.

Mark Techer

I love my Constant Image Height system!
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Old 12-26-2009, 08:47 AM
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Thanks for taking time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Not 100% sure where that came from. The depth of field should not change.

I think I have read a few posts mentioning this. Don't recall when though. Is it the same thing with anamorphic prisms? I.e. that they don't affect depth of field?
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:12 AM
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12' wide original DIY SMX Material
Sim2 HT380 (purchased used well under $10k)
HTB lens
Light controlled room
Not a bat cave - gray ceiling, gray fabric above rail, black below

Very happy yet excited for ??? in the future...

Pictures:





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Old 12-26-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

Thanks for taking time!

I think I have read a few posts mentioning this. Don't recall when though. Is it the same thing with anamorphic prisms? I.e. that they don't affect depth of field?

The difference between prisms and cylindrical lenses is that the prisms do not have focal length due to their flat surfaces. Therefore changing the spacing between the prisms does not do anything to the image.

Depth of field is a part of the image capture process more so than it is a part of display limitations. If your talking about "flattening of the image", screen choice or incorrect projector calibration will have more impact than an anamorphic lens.

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I love my Constant Image Height system!
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

The difference between prisms and cylindrical lenses is that the prisms do not have focal length due to their flat surfaces. Therefore changing the spacing between the prisms does not do anything to the image.

Depth of field is a part of the image capture process more so than it is a part of display limitations. If your talking about "flattening of the image", screen choice or incorrect projector calibration will have more impact than an anamorphic lens.

Maybe I'm using the wrong term. What I mean is the depth in which the picture stays in focus when projected. I.e how much you could move the projector back or forth with static focus and still keep the picture sharp.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

Maybe I'm using the wrong term. What I mean is the depth in which the picture stays in focus when projected. I.e how much you could move the projector back or forth with static focus and still keep the picture sharp.

What would be the point of that and how much movement are we talking about? With a prisms lens, you could mount the projector on a set of tracks and slide it forward (smaller image) and back (larger image) all day and nothing would change (assuming the projector's lens stays in focus) except the image size.

The cylindrical is not as flexible, however the cylindrical lens could be dialed in at any throw in its range to produce a super sharp image. The prism lens suffers astigmatism and even when additional corrective elements are added, they are really intended for a very limited range.

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Old 12-27-2009, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

What would be the point of that and how much movement are we talking about? With a prisms lens, you could mount the projector on a set of tracks and slide it forward (smaller image) and back (larger image) all day and nothing would change (assuming the projector's lens stays in focus) except the image size.

The cylindrical is not as flexible, however the cylindrical lens could be dialed in at any throw in its range to produce a super sharp image. The prism lens suffers astigmatism and even when additional corrective elements are added, they are really intended for a very limited range.

The point was not to move the projector, I was just trying to explain the phenomenon I was talking about. I used the term depth of field before, but it might be wrong as it usually describes how much can be kept in focus in a shot, not static focus flexibility on a PJ.

The point was really to try to understand how much curvature flexibility that is possible on a screen and still keep sharp focus across the entire image.

If the projector could keep its focus even when moving it back 10-20 cm or so, a curved/or flat screen should not pose a problem. However, if the cylindrical HE-lens reduces this focus depth, then it gets more important to get the right curvature. Otherwise it might not be possible to obtain sharp focus simultaneously at both the center and edges of the screen.

But you wrote before that that won't be a problem for cylindrical lenses, right?
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