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post #271 of 623 Old 09-03-2010, 08:43 AM
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Frank: Looks like a terrific set up....thanks for sharing!

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post #272 of 623 Old 09-03-2010, 09:08 AM
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Frank: Looks like a terrific set up....thanks for sharing!

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Thanks Ron

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post #273 of 623 Old 09-05-2010, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Agree wholeheartedly that how one wishes to view the image is a personal matter.

Objective PQ determination is another...........

Just to reiterate for clarification. I never said that full panel/no lens was inferior to leaving the lens in place. Quite the opposite. However when I add all other aspects like setting up a sled, change in brightness between aspect changes and very small perceived gain in image quality, it makes the process of small importance on my long list of upgrades. I purchased a panamorph mounting plate a couple months back from AVS to modify and use with a Cineslide in the future. Since I've added so much equipment over the last year the temp in my room is uncomfortable in the summer. So the first thing on the list with the new room is installing a dedicated hvac system. In the past 80-90 percent of viewing was with 2.35 content. I haven't had any gaming or much tv watching in my previous room for years. I found that after having a dedicated home theater for years, I've changed. I prefer the Media Room where family and friends can relax and enjoy video gaming, watch sports, TV shows, home movies, listen to music (my fav), and still be set up for computers and the occasional card game or wine tasting. So while before I didn't see the point of bothering with a sled, at least now I'll be using it for a lot more 16X9 content. As I have stated before, I find the biggest benefit is the much darker pillarboxing even without masking. Having said that, I still may not bother. I find myself at home less and less. We vacation 5-6 times a year. My work is more demanding than ever, with my employer demanding 7/12 hr days a week. With everything else, like most people today, life gets in the way of my movie viewing. Believe me I'd love to watch movies everyday, 8 hrs a day. The reality is, too sled or not to sled, is a ways back of a very long line. Actually, I'm enjoying this room build very much. I have had the help of my good friend who has had some time off and he's been a big help. Things get done so much quicker. Anyway, this miserable rant is what happens when one works through a very hot and long, holiday weekend. LOL(loathing out loud).
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post #274 of 623 Old 09-05-2010, 11:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

We built the house 10 years ago, before HT was the norm at homes and everything was bricks internal, actually it still is here.

Like they say Frank, 'nobody builds homes like they do in WA'

So many double brick homes over there.
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post #275 of 623 Old 09-06-2010, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Curiosity peaked by new Epson R4000 especially with 2.35 modes for lens users, with stellar blacks. Sim2 LED with 2.35 dmd to show at Cedia? Interesting month September should be.
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post #276 of 623 Old 09-06-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

Curiosity peaked by new Epson R4000 especially with 2.35 modes for lens users, with stellar blacks. Sim2 LED with 2.35 dmd to show at Cedia? Interesting month September should be.

Yep, in Europe they had it on display with a CineSlide and IIIS. Interested to see if it's displayed as such at CEDIA, too.

re your Panamorph plate. Sell it if you can. If you get a CineSlde it we'll equip it with the proper legs and (IIRC) you already have enough on your ceiling to simply screw it in there. Attaching it to the PJ is not the best thing to do.
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post #277 of 623 Old 09-06-2010, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
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Like they say Frank, 'nobody builds homes like they do in WA'

So many double brick homes over there.

Touch wood there quite strong.

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post #278 of 623 Old 09-06-2010, 11:12 PM
 
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Touch wood there quite strong.

You mean touch brick, in WA anyway
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post #279 of 623 Old 09-08-2010, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
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You mean touch brick, in WA anyway

true

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post #280 of 623 Old 09-08-2010, 10:18 PM
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Hi Everybody,

I've thought about moving my video projector/lens combo into the room (my office) at the rear of my home theatre... but I think it would create more problems than it solves.

I used to have a 16mm projector setup some time ago, aiming through a "window" in the wall. I made a frame to hold some 3mm plate glass with some grooves in the frame to hold some black card when I wanted to block it off.
This is the only picture I have of the 16mm projector in place, it's a bit small... but you will get the idea.



You can see the "window" from the HT side in these photos :-




The hole in the wall WAS originally designed for a film projector back in the day when my parents owned the house and my HT was my fathers photographic studio. I can remember family film and slide nights being just like the local cinema... but with 8mm and 16mm home movies! Dad loved shooting medium format 120 slides on his Mamiya RB67 camera... but I digress...

Back in 1997 when I bought my VPL-W400Q projector, I tried placing it where the 16mm projector sat. The VPL-W400Q couldn't zoom small enough for my 110" home made screen for the throw distance of 24'/7400mm and didn't have any lens shift function.

I doubt if my current projector (Sony VPL-VW60) could zoom down enough either. Placing a projector in the room at the back would increase the throw by 3000mm over where it is now.

The lens shift function of the VPL-VW60 is not ideal either.
At the moment, my projector lens is around 200mm above the height of the top of the screen and there is a noticeable bowing on the bottom of the image caused by the lens shift.

If I was able to move the VPL-VW60 to the old 16mm projector position, it would place the lens around 200mm below the height of the top of the screen. I think the geometric distortion caused by the lens shift PLUS the decrease in picture brightness outweighs any benefit. Plus I would have to light proof the office to prevent day and artificial light from spilling through the projector port.

I don't mind having the projector where it is at the moment, it's fairly quiet and it's in an airconditioned room. The steel truss I mounted the projector on has proven to be a sturdy mounting location for both the projector and anamorphic lens.

I do dream of putting a DCI projector in the back room one day... maybe when I collect an inheritance from a long lost relative...
I'd also like to remove the walls of the office and incorporate the space into the HT proper. The office floor is some 320mm higher than the HT floor so I would have a purpose built riser PLUS then the room would almost be a golden rectangle 1:1.618.

Michael.

P.S. the prism lens will soon be replaced with an Aussiemorphic MkIV lens so I am sort of on topic for this thread... plus others were talking about projection booths...

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post #281 of 623 Old 09-09-2010, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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To Frank and Michael, nice rooms guys. Though this isn't the place for room builds, I don't see a problem with showing a couple of pics. I'd do it. Anyway, it's been brought up in the thread above that 2.35 projectors will be shown at Cedia. I remember talk of this in threads about 6 months ago. It will be interesting to see what's on display for eventual release.
I can see how this could be cause for concern with any of us that have spent a large sum of money on an A-lens. I'm not worried in the least as I stated earlier on this thread. There is a good chance that the 2538x1080 chip is actually a 2560 x 1080, which in turn could be a derivative of the current chips used in data grade dlp units. They have a resolution of 2560x1600 (16:10 ratio). If this is the case it's a trimmed or has all pixel outside the 1080 shutoff. Or the manufacturer could actually have a menu setting for 16x10, 16x9, and 2.35/2.40 aspect.
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post #282 of 623 Old 09-09-2010, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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With a 2560x1080 available, it's makes sense that a 2560x1440 16x9 could also be released(both based on 2560x1600 chip). At which point the Isco/Cavx would throw a superior picture using all 1440 lines. Don't forget 4K is around the corner. So while it is a step in the right direction, I believe the Lens won't be obsolete due to this. The main differences between this and the current zoom method is the whole panel is filled and lit with better light.
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post #283 of 623 Old 09-10-2010, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

With a 2560x1080 available, it's makes sense that a 2560x1440 16x9 could also be released(both based on 2560x1600 chip). At which point the Isco/Cavx would throw a superior picture using all 1440 lines. Don't forget 4K is around the corner. So while it is a step in the right direction, I believe the Lens won't be obsolete due to this. The main differences between this and the current zoom method is the whole panel is filled and lit with better light.

Thanks for the info coolrda.

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post #284 of 623 Old 09-10-2010, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

The main differences between this and the current zoom method is the whole panel is filled and lit with better light.

And not only that, when someone watches 16:9 on this new projector, there will be side pillars of grey bars - areas of UNUSED pixels. This is no different to what I have by leaving my lens in place when I scale 16:9 down to 1440 x 1080.

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post #285 of 623 Old 09-10-2010, 07:14 AM
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Actually ever since Ive moved my projector back Im using very little zoom and have to admit the PQ is even better. Here im thinking I was having a great image when my projector was located in my room (Using quite a bit of zoom mind you) but going taking it back has improved it noticeably.

Looking at the release of the new 2:35:1 native projector I was thinking of going in that direction but as you just mentioned cooldra I think I will go your way.

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post #286 of 623 Old 09-10-2010, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Looking at the release of the new 2:35:1 native projector I was thinking of going in that direction but as you just mentioned cooldra I think I will go your way.

So is that way involve keeping your cylindrical lens and just upgrading the projector when required?

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post #287 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

And not only that, when someone watches 16:9 on this new projector, there will be side pillars of grey bars - areas of UNUSED pixels. This is no different to what I have by leaving my lens in place when I scale 16:9 down to 1440 x 1080.

The 16:9 image will be pixel mapped to the 1920 x 1080 portion of the panel.

Displaying 16:9 Bluray without any scaling.

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post #288 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

So is that way involve keeping your cylindrical lens and just upgrading the projector when required?

I did a pq comparison last night with a mate with the lens on and without and you'll be hard pressed to notice a difference. I'm sure there will be if you look hard enough but it was quite impressive. That confirmed it more for me to hang onto my lens.

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post #289 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

The 16:9 image will be pixel mapped to the 1920 x 1080 portion of the panel.

Displaying 16:9 Bluray without any scaling.

1.78:1 BDs will be displayed without scaling. It is the pixels on the side that will still send light to the screen that I was referring to.

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post #290 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

1.78:1 BDs will be displayed without scaling. It is the pixels on the side that will still send light to the screen that I was referring to.

I'm with ya......screen side masking will still be required or a 2 screen configuration 2.35:1 & 1.78:1/16:9

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post #291 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I'm with ya......screen side masking will still be required or a 2 screen configuration 2.35:1 & 1.78:1/16:9

And I need to take some action on the side masking thing in my theatre.

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post #292 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
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And I need to take some action on the side masking thing in my theatre.

It can be quite expensive just to mask the two sides especially going automated.

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post #293 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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It can be quite expensive just to mask the two sides especially going automated.

I had manual masks on a previous system and given they were open more times than closed, another manual system will do fine

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post #294 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
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I had manual masks on a previous system and given they were open more times than closed, another manual system will do fine

I was thinking of making to panels on either side and covering them with the appropriate material and attaching them to the frame but I was told it causes shadow? Is that true?

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post #295 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I was thinking of making to panels on either side and covering them with the appropriate material and attaching them to the frame but I was told it causes shadow? Is that true?

Anything in the light path that is not touching the screen can cause a shadow, however I think you would find that from the typical seating distances of HT, you'd be hard pressed to see it.

In my case, my masks need to be AT as well. Even though my speakers are just inside the 16:9 area, I don't want to risk causing a possible audio change through reflection by adding a solid material that close the speakers.

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post #296 of 623 Old 09-11-2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
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I was thinking of making to panels on either side and covering them with the appropriate material and attaching them to the frame but I was told it causes shadow? Is that true?

My DIY horizontal masking is 4" away from the screen and no shadows can be seen from the viewing area, the image appears to float in the air.

The closer the masking to the screen the better. Chris(Prior's) from DTV's masking sits 3mm from the screen surface, doubt any shadows would be visible at all from that.

The other alternative is to get a motorised 16:9 that sits infront of the 2.35:1, which could give you greater flexibility in conjunction with the 2.35:1 screen...... CIH +

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post #297 of 623 Old 09-12-2010, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Seeing the Meridian 810/Stewart Cinecurve/Isco III demo several years back was breathtaking. Perfection. I'llh take this picture over PD 2.35 projector any day, sight unseen. I would really love seeing anamorphic encoded BR's in the future, but as I stated before, I believe 16x9 is the standard indefinitely. Therefore, I'm keeping my lens. Doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out the benefit of pixel fill. 10megs crushes 2megs.
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post #298 of 623 Old 09-12-2010, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post

Seeing the Meridian 810/Stewart Cinecurve/Isco III demo several years back was breathtaking. Perfection. I'llh take this picture over PD 2.35 projector any day, sight unseen. I would really love seeing anamorphic encoded BR's in the future, but as I stated before, I believe 16x9 is the standard indefinitely. Therefore, I'm keeping my lens. Doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out the benefit of pixel fill. 10megs crushes 2megs.

What would the result be if one took a capture of a 2meg image with a 10meg capture device......would the resulting image look better?

Joking aside, without the detail in the source...............

However I agree, if visible pixel gap is an issue, then either sit further back or use more pixels and upscale....but if one is hoping for additional detail....look for a higher source.

This thread is a classic....and the changing opinions/attidues over time:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795480

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post #299 of 623 Old 09-12-2010, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post


My DIY horizontal masking is 4" away from the screen and no shadows can be seen from the viewing area, the image appears to float in the air.

The closer the masking to the screen the better. Chris(Prior's) from DTV's masking sits 3mm from the screen surface, doubt any shadows would be visible at all from that.

The other alternative is to get a motorised 16:9 that sits infront of the 2.35:1, which could give you greater flexibility in conjunction with the 2.35:1 screen...... CIH +

I'm going to have to see which is the better alternative for me.

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post #300 of 623 Old 09-12-2010, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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At the last two CES they had a display set up to answer that very question. Overwhelmingly 1080 sources/2160 display was night and day difference over a pixel mapped 1080/1080. It goes beyond pixel fill and differences. Having viewed several 2160 displays, both 2160x3840'and 2160x4096, one thing stood. The complete transparency of the picture. The term organic is often used. The best analogy I can thing of is its like viewing a studio quality 16x20 photo, annabsolute facsimile without playback degradation. Until you've experience this you have know idea. My point is simply this. Until a native 2.35 projector based on masking the corresponding 16x9 chips horizontal resolution by 25%, the lens will always be equal too or superior to a native 2.35.
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