Panasonic AE4000U and 235:1 Setup - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I received this email today from my home theater install technician.

Quote - After studying the manual and specs for your projector, I know it is only going to be usable on a 16:9 screen. The lens memory function can only be used if the projector is placed exactly at the height of the center of the 2.35 screen, which is completely impractical for any residential installation. Since it has manual lens shift, the lens shift position cannot be changed automatically via the lens memory function.

Can anyone elaborate, if this is true. Thanks, Dean
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post #2 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 01:12 AM
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I'd change the installer if he is not up to speed on this projector. The Panny's main selling feature in the CIH market was the memory feature. And of course, the Panny has Scaling for CIH when you use an A-Lens.

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post #3 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 01:19 AM
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I'm pretty sure (based on what I've read) that the projector just has to be within the height of the screen for the auto-zoom to work
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post #4 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 01:28 AM
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There are limits to the amount of vertical alignment, however you still have some room for set ups where the projector and screen can not be at the same height. In the end of the day, so long as you can set up the 'zoomed' 16:9 image (fills the width of the Scope screen to project the black bars off the screen), the smaller 16:9 should align in the centre of that.

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post #5 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 03:16 AM
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I could be wrong, but I think the Panny also allows you to electronically move the 2.35 image up and down within the 16:9 it projects, so that gives it the flexibility needed if the pj isn't dead centre and the image moves up or down when you zoom it.

Might be an idea to ask a Panny owner to see how they do it.

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post #6 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 03:20 AM
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As Cavx says it needs to be level or below the top of the screen to work. Part of the lens memory feature allows the image to be electronically moved up or down (and this position saved as part of that memory). When moving the position upwards for example, the bottom part of the image gets cut off, but as these would be black bars in the case of the 2.35:1 setting, then it's no issue. Therefore typically the 16:9 postion is set with the electronic controls centred and any manual lens shift applied to line it up. Then for the 2.35:1 setting the manual shift controls are left where they are and only the electronic adjustments used as required.

It's all rather moot though as I'd suggest you pick up a JVC HD250 and save for a lens...you'll get a much better picture IMHO. (Ex AE3000 owner and current HD350 owner ).

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post #7 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I have already purchased the Panny 4000 so no turning back now. I sent the installer the information and am curious to hear his response. Unfortunately, there are very few Home theater installers in my area and he is supposedly the best in the area. Thanks again for the information.
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post #8 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 05:21 AM
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Yes, that is unfortunate. I'd point him in the direction of the AE4000 or even the AE3000 owners thread on here. There are a number of users that have these setup and working correctly by ensuring that their projector is positioned no higher than the top of the screen. My old AE3000 was on a shelf behind me and just below the top of the screen (though at a very long throw) and I had no issues using the lens memory...it was only when I settled down to watch the film I was disapointed.

Depending on the layout of your room perhaps this isn't possible? If ceiling mounted then it's unlikely unless your screen is jammed tight against the ceiling I suppose. However from the outside it does rather seem that the installer would prefer to take the easier route and fit a standard 16:9 screen as there will be fewer support issues for him to deal with.

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post #9 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 07:13 AM
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I agree with CAVX- get yourself a new installer. The guy is obviously not knowledgable about the Panny 4000 - perhaps the Worlds best selling projector, which does not bode well for his expertise in other HT areas. If he can't be bothered reading up on projector specs and 2.35 screens I would tell him to take a hike.
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post #10 of 43 Old 10-31-2010, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Got a reply back from the HT installer today and here is what he had to say:

quote - "This is an unusual setup and it will work to present a 2.35 image on a 2.35 screen. Normally, when you setup a projector on a 16:9 screen and then zoom it to fill a 2.35 screen, the vertical position of the 2.35 will be totally wrong. This internal electronic image shift (not lens shift) will allow it to work. Sorry for giving you a scare, It's unique, actually. The only disadvantage of this projector will be that the 2.35 large widescreen image for a movie will be 25% less bright and 25% lower resolution, so you'll have a 1200 lumen 810p projector for movies."
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post #11 of 43 Old 11-01-2010, 01:10 AM
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I'd still question his knowledge as anyone who's worked with AExxxx models would know that it's not a 1600 lumen projector to begin with. Although the specs cliam this, you have to be using Dynamic mode to achieve 1600 lumens. Any installer that sets up in (highly inaccurate and colour clipping) Dynamic mode should be fired IMO. If you use an accurate mode such as Colour 1 then the lumens drops to about 500-600. Use this figure as a starting point for fL calculations, but also allow for the lamp to dim with age, so perhaps 450 lumens would be more realistic. Also, when zooming there is often a gain in brightness due to the way the lens works, which will partly compensate for the larger area which will reduce fL for a given amount of lumens output from the projector.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #12 of 43 Old 11-01-2010, 02:30 AM - Thread Starter
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He did admit to me that he knows very little about the Panasonic brand projector, as he sells JVC. Unfortunately, he is the only HT technician that has actually setup any anamorphic home theater systems.

On the bright side: His home theater showroom does have an 235:1 setup with a JVC with a motorized panamorph UH480 setup that looks pretty awesome.
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post #13 of 43 Old 11-04-2010, 08:53 AM
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I would ignore his warnings, I have the AE3000 and am zooming 2.35:1 on a 12 foot wilsonart DW screen and love it. My projector lens is even with the top of my screen. you align it up very easily with the vertical image adjustment. I think it looks great! I run my projector in eco mode and think it is plenty bright. I dont want to start a huge debate, but i disagree with the lost resolution concept of 2.35 blurays. he says you only have a 810p projector, but if the bluray disk only is outputting 810 pixels anyways then that is all you get. you cant magically make it better by interpolating the pixels. i think true native 1:1 pixel mapping is the best quality you can get. I have been to many home theater shows and seen many anamorphic lenses and have always felt you get a brighter but less sharp image with them compared to the zoom option.
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post #14 of 43 Old 11-04-2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlman View Post

I dont want to start a huge debate,

Too late


Quote:
Originally Posted by digitlman View Post

i think true native 1:1 pixel mapping is the best quality you can get. I have been to many home theater shows and seen many anamorphic lenses and have always felt you get a brighter but less sharp image with them compared to the zoom option.

Many here have done direct comparisons and come to a different conclusion, though I think in most cases it's down to closer seating distances. The closer you sit, the more of an issue zooming can become. If you don't sit that close (or haven't done the comparison), then the advantage of a good A lens becomes reduced. There are plenty here who are more than happy with zooming, so I'd always suggest they try that first. That's where I started too.

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post #15 of 43 Old 11-04-2010, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post

Too late




Many here have done direct comparisons and come to a different conclusion, though I think in most cases it's down to closer seating distances. The closer you sit, the more of an issue zooming can become. If you don't sit that close (or haven't done the comparison), then the advantage of a good A lens becomes reduced. There are plenty here who are more than happy with zooming, so I'd always suggest they try that first. That's where I started too.

Gary.

I think that is good advice. I am one of those people who started out using the zoom method and feel no need at all for an anamorphic lens. I think with the 'smoothscreen' technology of the Panasonic projectors that an A-lens offers no advantage in reducing seating distance, since SDE is a total non issue with the Panasonics.
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post #16 of 43 Old 11-09-2010, 09:10 AM
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HI All
I just got this projector and got a s 2.35:1 screen with 1.2 gain fixed at 96"
So far im loving it and jaw dropped when i put in avatar on bluray.
Its right now in the center of the screen and not the full screen as I have to still move the screen to the top of the ceiling as its a bit low.

My question is that most movies I have are 2.40:1 like avatar and 2.35:1, im wondering how one would go about getting the lens shift to work with those resolutions.
should i save 3 variations like 16x9, 2.35:1 etc ..and what about 2.40.1 since avatar right now just takes the center of the screen. not sure if i read that panny would detect 2.40:1 ...

advice would be appreciated.

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post #17 of 43 Old 11-09-2010, 03:36 PM
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This quote was takin from "projector review.com review on the PT-AE4000U

Here's the scoop. As most of us know, most movies are in "Cinemascope" format - roughly 2.35:1 (there are 2.37:1, 2.40:1 and other varieties, but 2.35:1 is the most common). Since home theater projectors are 16:9 ratio (1.78:1), you get a letterbox above and below the image on the screen, if you have a 16:9 screen as most of us do.

Hope this helps.
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post #18 of 43 Old 11-10-2010, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosswire View Post

HI All
I just got this projector and got a s 2.35:1 screen with 1.2 gain fixed at 96"
So far im loving it and jaw dropped when i put in avatar on bluray.
Its right now in the center of the screen and not the full screen as I have to still move the screen to the top of the ceiling as its a bit low.

My question is that most movies I have are 2.40:1 like avatar and 2.35:1, im wondering how one would go about getting the lens shift to work with those resolutions.
should i save 3 variations like 16x9, 2.35:1 etc ..and what about 2.40.1 since avatar right now just takes the center of the screen. not sure if i read that panny would detect 2.40:1 ...

advice would be appreciated.

Avatar is not 2.35:1, thats why it is just in the center of the screen.

I like to watch video and listen to audio.
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post #19 of 43 Old 11-10-2010, 06:07 PM
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ive connected my ps3 to the projector and i notice that the menu screen is overlapping over the screen on top n bottom. So i switch to s16x9 to center it. But then when i go to watch a movie in 2.35:1 mode, the autolens processes it but it doesnt fill the screen. I have to switch aspect first to norml 16x9 and then the 2.35:1 i set works.
I think i might have saved the lens memory when resolution was 16x9

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post #20 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 12:16 AM
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Crosswire, all your lens memory settings should be set up using the same (16:9) aspect setting. The S16:9 is for a quick 'shrink' when already zoomed to 2.35:1 (lower resolution, but perfectly fine for menus and trailers). It's understandable that switching to 2.35:1 memory when using the S16:9 aspect the image won't fill the screen as it will also be 'shrunk' down.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #21 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 10:20 AM
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So when i turn my projector on, i have to make sure the aspect ratio im seeing on screen is 16x9 and fit it on the screen coz right now, its like overlapping all over the sides for the ps3 main menu.
then when ive done that, i can do the lens shift for each resolution etc.

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post #22 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 11:48 AM
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Yes, Crosswire that is correct. Do all your work with the AR control set to 16:9.

FWIW I think it's generally agreed that you set up the 16:9 image first so that it fully fills your 2.35:1 screen heightwise and the side bars are the same width each side. Adjust the zoom, focus and manual shifts to achieve this and make sure the vertical and horizontal 'position' settings are at '0'. Then save this setting as 16:9.

Then, without touching the manual shift controls, use the zoom, focus and position controls to zoom a 2.35:1 image so that it fits perfectly on your 2.35:1 screen. Then save this as 2.35:1. If there isn't enough adjustment in the electronic position controls (usually if the projector is above or below the screen top/bottom) then you have to compromise: Use the position controls on the 16:9 setting in the opposite direction to that which you run out of adjustment in the 2.35:1 mode.If you have to do this, obviously you'll have to resave your 16:9 setting with this 'cheat'. Bare in mind that this will mean you'll cut a small amount off the 16:9 picture if the position control isn't at 0 (but it does remain pixel mapped even when moved above or below '0' FWIW).

Hope this helps.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #23 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 11:54 AM
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Thanks will try tonite
I watched 2012 last nite n I cried lol massive screen with ae4000u I was in heaven

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post #24 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 12:27 PM
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Yes I cried too watching 2012...I thought it was an awful film. I now what you mean though as it's great finally having a picture at home that a few years ago I never would have thought possible.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #25 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 01:45 PM
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I notice when I use masking am I suppose to see a pitch black masking on sides coz I don't and the screen still shows that dark grey
And not pitch black
How can I get the settings to go deeper blacks if wanted too

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post #26 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosswire View Post

I notice when I use masking am I suppose to see a pitch black masking on sides coz I don't and the screen still shows that dark grey
And not pitch black
How can I get the settings to go deeper blacks if wanted too

Swop it for a JVC X9.

Seriously, the masking is only turning off pixels, so it will only ever be as dark as the projector can produce...it's not a physical mask as such. This is assuming you're talking about the masking feature that was added in the AE4000 (I didn't have this on my AE3000). It might be that you've got your brightness control set slightly too high, but don't lower it too far as it will justu crush the blacks.

However, if you're talking about the side bars on 16:9 content on your 2.35:1 screen when you've zoomed back (your 16:9 memory in 16:9 aspect mode rather than S16:9), then this is caused by room reflections (plus slight overspill from the projector). Although the projector isn't directly lighting this area of the screen, the image will light up the room and some will reflect back onto the screen making it look grey rather than black. This is why some people add side masking to their 2.35:1 screens for 16:9 content.

You might just need to darken the room wall and ceiling colour (if that's an option).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #27 of 43 Old 11-11-2010, 04:33 PM
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so the 2.35:1 works when detected and i wanted the 16x9 to fill the screen too but it spills on bottom and using the vershift moves half movie up
so not sure
cant seem to get 2.40:1 to fill screen talking about avatar. its in 16x9 mode. so when i use 2.35:1 it spills below.
maybe should get a 2.40:1 setting n store it

based on the formula foe 2.40:1 screens, not sure why there is a huge overlap

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post #28 of 43 Old 11-12-2010, 12:41 AM
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Just to be clear about this: The AE4000 (and AE3000) can't magically fill a 2.35:1 screen when the source is 16:9. All that will happen is that the top and bottom of the image will overspill the top and bottom of the screen if you zoom out for 2.35:1 (or press your 2.35:1 memory).

I know the Panasonic marketing can give the impression that this feature does something amazing, but in reality all it does is zoom the picture and 'remember' where it was zoomed to (plus the other position and focus as well). I thought there was a masking feature that can blank pixels, but I don't know the range of this (and even if enough to crop a 1.85:1 image to 2.35:1 would obviously mean losing part of the picture).

I understood that Avitar is a 1.85:1 disc (the BluRay I rented certainly was, though perhaps there is a different version available in the US?

I hope this makes sense.

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post #29 of 43 Old 11-12-2010, 03:54 AM
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Sorry about avatar yes it's 16x9 disc so now I know why it didn't fill lol
Hope they come out with a 2.35:1 disc oneday

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post #30 of 43 Old 11-12-2010, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosswire View Post

Sorry about avatar yes it's 16x9 disc so now I know why it didn't fill lol
Hope they come out with a 2.35:1 disc oneday

I put it on recently for my Son (he really enjoyed it but it isn't my type of film). As I'd set my lens up for viewing a film later that evening he had to watch it in scope (vertical stretch, plus the lens). Although this crops part of the image, he didn't seem to mind (he'd only moan that it wasn't 'filling the screen' otherwise and I couldn't be bothered to put up the side masking). I think there was a whole thread about whether this could/should be done, but he was happy.

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