Another JVC RS40/50/60 owner with ?'s about 2.35.1 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 01-24-2011, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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My questions are similar to thebek’s thread titled “Setup for 2.35.1 for JVC DLA-RS40” but didn’t want to butt in.


I have ordered an RS50 and am considering a new 2:35:1 setup and wonder if my room is big enough to accommodate a 50” x 118” screen.

I am just starting to research and understand some of what is needed, have a few questions I need help with, plus I don’t know what I don’t know.


If possible, I would like to use my existing Chief ceiling mount and purchase a reasonably priced lens. The HD6000 looks interesting. Would I be able to attach that to my RPMAU, custom RS50 plate, and 9” extension pipe? I would like the lens to slide up when not in use.


Based on a 50” high 16:9 screen Projector Central recommends a 13”6” throw within a range of 10”1” to 20”6” for a JVC DLA RS50.


What would be the optimum throw? I will watch 16:9 material including sports and utilize 3D with Comcast cable and an Oppo 93.


The room is 18’ 6” long and 12’ 6” wide. The center front row seat has a 9' 6" viewing distance before reclining. I could move the front row back 9”. The room has complete light control with black carpet, black front wall, black side walls and ceiling extending 3 feet from the front wall, and finally dark red side walls and dark gray ceiling everywhere else.


The current Deluxe Screenwall frame just fits inside of a 91 ¼” wide portion of the front wall that sits 1 foot back to accommodate a window. The larger screen would need to be mounted in front of the “window well” so I would lose 1 foot of room length. Behind the back wall is a crawl space I could build a shelf behind if needed.


Thank you in advance.


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post #2 of 23 Old 01-25-2011, 03:01 PM
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Hi George,

Your front row will be about one screen width (when in 2.37) away which is where my front row is as well, so if you have two rows that should work out well. I personally like the front row, those that don't can go to the second row for a narrower viewing angle. So you should be fine with your size.

In terms of throw you should consider a longer throw to minimize pin cushioning when stretched by your anamorphic lens. The recomended minimum is 2 x pre-stretched width or in your case I would recommend at least 15' throw since your 16x9 image is about 7.4' wide. If you can go farther the more you will reduce your pin cushioning as well as increase contrast, but you will loose brightness, so one must choose a good balance.

I can't comment on the mount as I don't know about that, I had to be creative with my mount but I have the HD5000 which was different and the prisms moved to stretched the image instead of simply moving the lens it self in and out of the project path.

Good luck, and I can tell you that going scope CIH is the best thing I ever did as there is so many scope movies out there.
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post #3 of 23 Old 01-26-2011, 07:07 PM
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Hi George, I recognized you name. I still have the Denon 2900 SDI player. Use it frequently. Anyway I went anamorphic two years ago. My first lens was a Prismasonic H-FE1500 and last year I moved up to a Schneider cylindrical lens. I don't know about the new Prismasonic new product but they did offer a mount with their current lens. You want to get the projector as far back as practical. The throw ratio is the most important issue for using an anamorphic lens. You take the distance from the projector to the screen divided by the 16:9 picture width. Try to obtain a ratio 2:1 or greater. Personally I like the projector mounted behind me and not above or in front of me. I built my own projector mounting plate and adapter for the Schneider lens. Now there are more commercial plates available for sale. If you need any more information PM me.
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post #4 of 23 Old 01-26-2011, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for taking the time to reply danc and CRGINC,

I can install a chief mount pretty much anywhere up to a 16' throw or so. If needed I can cut a hole in the back wall, build a shelf/cabinet in the crawl space and end up with a throw of about 18'.

I would prefer as short a throw as possible without introducing too much distortion. I'm not sure I know what this pincushion effect looks like and then understand I might deal with barrel distortion with 16:9 content if I use a curved screen. Ultimately I want to maximize brightness so need to balance where to compromise.

I need to get details on the new Prismasonic HD6000. If ceiling mounted would I need auto lift or even auto focus? I can easily manually slide it up if that is an option. If I can keep it on all the time without degrading 16:9, better still. So early in the process I'm not even aware of other options yet.

Good to hear from you again CRGINC. Hopefully the 2900 served you as well as it did me.

Thanks again.

George
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post #5 of 23 Old 01-26-2011, 08:37 PM
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Hi George,

I too have cruched some numbers and my main concern right now (from what I see from your image) is your speakers may restrict the width of the screen. On my monitor, I can't tell where the corners are. I feel you may have some room boundary limitations there. It is certainly a nice looking room and a wider screen would look awesome if it can be done.

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post #6 of 23 Old 01-26-2011, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
Hi George,

I too have cruched some numbers and my main concern right now (from what I see from your image) is your speakers may restrict the width of the screen. On my monitor, I can't tell where the corners are. I feel you may have some room boundary limitations there. It is certainly a nice looking room and a wider screen would look awesome if it can be done.
I was concerned about that. Below is another picture with a little more light. I've also added two pieces of blue tape to mark the outside edge of my desired 118 wide screen. That would leave 12 of space between the edge of the screen material and the inside edge of the mains.

Thanks Mark.

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post #7 of 23 Old 01-26-2011, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post
I was concerned about that. Below is another picture with a little more light. I’ve also added two pieces of blue tape to mark the outside edge of my desired 118” wide screen. That would leave 12” of space between the edge of the screen material and the inside edge of the mains.

Thanks Mark.
Hi George,

Your also going to have to mount the screen in front of that recess too, unless your planning a major remodel of the room.

I've done a very rough mock up and maybe you might just make this work if you can move the speakers out a bit more. If you could toe the speakers in, it is highly probable that they will not case a shadow at all.

It certainly will change the look of the room.
LL

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post #8 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 06:44 AM
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You could use that recess to put the speakers in, make your 2.35 screen acoustically transparent. It looks like that would have your fronts right on the edge of the 16:9 image which is perfect if you end up using non-at masking. Just another idea. I realize you fronts are tall, so the screen wall below the sreen would have to be AT as well, like some black speaker cloth or something.

-Sean
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post #9 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 07:09 AM
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Hi, (just when I think I'm beginning to get it)

I set up my room (conduit/mounting studs/Power) with the lens of the projector app. 16' from screen (ceiling mounted JVC rs40 is on order). I'm in the process of ordering the screen and every time I read deeper into these threads I learn that I don't know squat. I originally was going with a motorized (has to be motorized) 119" diagonal 16:9 screen, but have been talked into (and excited about it) getting a 2.35:1 screen. I would like the screen to be 133" diagonal making it 52" x 92.5". I want to get an anamorphic lens (maybe the new HD 6000). If I use the 2:1 rule for distance of the lens to screen (92.5x2=15.4'), is that from the original lens or the anamorphic lens. I may be splitting hairs here, but since I haven't got the projector to know exactly where the lens will be (nor how much the anamorphic adds) nor how far from the wall the screen will actually be when it comes down (I would think only an inch or so from the wall) it may be that my distance will be plus or minus a couple inches of the 15.4'. I really can't (don't want to) move the projector back and even if I did I might gain 6". However, if those 6" would make all the difference in the world for the projection, then by all means I will do it. What do you think? Is the 2:1 rule a "brick wall" where the image is horrible if you go under a little and great if you can move back? Thanks so much for your help.
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post #10 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 07:54 AM
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I just got the JVC-X9 and panamorph A-Lens with sled. I have a 2.35 130" screen. For this A-Lens I was told that 17' is the perfect distance. You can go on their web site and determine the recommended distance when using an A-Lens. I beleive it was 16-19' but do not remember. I also am using a cureved 1.3 gain Stewart screen. No pin cusion and no hot spots either. Great presentation
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post #11 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Arnies View Post

I just got the JVC-X9 and panamorph A-Lens with sled. I have a 2.35 130" screen. For this A-Lens I was told that 17' is the perfect distance. You can go on their web site and determine the recommended distance when using an A-Lens. I beleive it was 16-19' but do not remember. I also am using a cureved 1.3 gain Stewart screen. No pin cusion and no hot spots either. Great presentation

I'll have to have a flat screen since it is motorized. Is your screen 130" wide?
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post #12 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 08:48 AM
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Falcon, you will be fine with the distance you have picked, no worries other than possible brightness issues being that far if the room isn't light controlled.

-Sean
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post #13 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 230-SEAN View Post

Falcon, you will be fine with the distance you have picked, no worries other than possible brightness issues being that far if the room isn't light controlled.

-Sean

I'll be watching at night only, and the room is light colored (white ceiling, beige side walls with a darker wall behind the screen) so I have been recommended to get the Firehawk G3 to combat the light scatter from the screen (originally I was thinking of the StudioTek 130 or Da-light Cinema Vision).

I was more concerned about it being too close for the screen size and the pincushion effect people are talking about. To be honest since this will be my first projector, I have no idea what pincushion looks like anyway and not sure about the 2:1 boundary people talk about for projector distance with an anamorphic lens. Thanks
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post #14 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by falcon2000ex View Post

I'll be watching at night only, and the room is light colored (white ceiling, beige side walls with a darker wall behind the screen) so I have been recommended to get the Firehawk G3 to combat the light scatter from the screen (originally I was thinking of the StudioTek 130 or Da-light Cinema Vision).

I was more concerned about it being too close for the screen size and the pincushion effect people are talking about. To be honest since this will be my first projector, I have no idea what pincushion looks like anyway and not sure about the 2:1 boundary people talk about for projector distance with an anamorphic lens. Thanks

Well, in the RS40 thread, everybody is saying to go with higher gain screens as the CR ratio is great and the higher gain will improve 3d performance, so for screen selection I'd take note of those suggestions.

To describe pincussion: Basically it looks like a sideways hourglass (thats an extreme example just saying that to get the idea of the shape in you head) where the left and right side of your image are at the same height, but the center of the image is shorter. When the lens is setup properly, the image center curves up from the bottom of the screen the same amount as it curves down from the top of the screen. Thats why some people use curved screens, as the throw ratio is longer in the center of the screen than it is at the sides, counter acting the pincussion effect. It gets worse at shorter TRs so thats where you are getting the 2:1 from as it would be harder to see it at that TR.

-Sean
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post #15 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Now that I've learned what pincushion and barrel distortion is, how big of an issue would it be on a flat, 118 wide by 50" screen with a 16' throw?

If I went with a curved screen, same question for barrel distortion assuming I moved the lens out of the light path?

For others that haven't experienced pincushion or barrel distortion before, Wikipedia made it very clear for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincushion_distortion
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post #16 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Hi George,

Your also going to have to mount the screen in front of that recess too, unless your planning a major remodel of the room.

I've done a very rough mock up and maybe you might just make this work if you can move the speakers out a bit more. If you could toe the speakers in, it is highly probable that they will not case a shadow at all.

"I've added a mock-up of a curved screen." gh

It certainly will change the look of the room.


Thanks Mark. This will really help my Wife visualize what a 2.35:1 screen would look like in our room.

I can easily move the speakers and can even consider using other speakers I have but I like that the Infinity Prelude Compositions are not only a flat black but sound fantastic.
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post #17 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 230-SEAN View Post

Well, in the RS40 thread, everybody is saying to go with higher gain screens as the CR ratio is great and the higher gain will improve 3d performance, so for screen selection I'd take note of those suggestions.

-Sean

Thanks for the help. I think I understand a little better that it isn't so much a brick wall as much as it is a good starting point. As far as the screen, unfortunately I have to have a ceiling mount (no other option since the room is 49' long and used as more than a theater room) and the High Power Retro Reflective screens only work good if the projector is closer to eye level. I need an angular reflective and the Firehawk 3G supposedly will not scatter the light as much as the "white" screens. I will post over there to see if the trade off for light scatter (potentially washing the image) is still more favorable than the Firehawk's gray screen.

Where is the "EASY" button to push to have everything be 100% perfect for your conditions?
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post #18 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post

Now that I've learned what pincushion and barrel distortion is, how big of an issue would it be on a flat, 118 wide by 50" screen with a 16' throw?

If I went with a curved screen, same question for barrel distortion assuming I moved the lens out of the light path?

For others that haven't experienced pincushion or barrel distortion before, Wikipedia made it very clear for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincushion_distortion

If you go to the DIY Constant Height section, the first sticky is a Curve Calculator, it requires Excell to read the file but I think it tells you how much pincussion you will get. I know it tells you how much curve it requires to eliminate the pincussion. Give it a look and see if it gives you the info you are looking for.

As for barrel distortion, my pj is currently at about 11' away ( at the sides) from a 45" tall 2.35:1 screen with a roughly 4" curve to it, I've never noticed the barrel distortion and I feel like I'm at a pretty short TR with a rather large curve.

-Sean
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post #19 of 23 Old 01-27-2011, 10:22 AM
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George, you need to get Mark to send you a pincushion calculator. You plug in your throw ratio and will give a percentage of pincushion. I recommend trying for 1% or less. If you use a curved screen you have to match the radius of the curve with the throw ratio to eliminate the pincushion. Mark I believe did this with his own custom screen. Also if you go the curved screen route you should leave the lens in place all time to prevent barrel distortion when you remove it for HD aspect ratio viewing. I have a width challenged HT and use a flat screen with a throw ratio of 2.2 or so. I still leave the lens in place and use a processor to squeeze the picture for HD aspect ratios. I don’t notice any difference in the picture quality.
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post #20 of 23 Old 01-28-2011, 02:49 PM
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Please I need some advice, any one of you, know this lens? thats is properly created for JVC dla projector "the Panamorph FVX200J", ANY?, I'll use my (on the way) JVC dla x7 with an Elite Oprey dual format and the PJ placed in a stand at 50 inch from floor (not celiing mounted, and I wonder if this work for me

Thanks in advance
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post #21 of 23 Old 01-28-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHolland View Post

Thanks Mark. This will really help my Wife visualize what a 2.35:1 screen would look like in our room.

Then you need to paste this image into the picture as well and explain to your wife that now there will be no more black bars.



Quote:
I can easily move the speakers and can even consider using other speakers I have but I like that the Infinity Prelude Compositions are not only a flat black but sound fantastic.

Are they the ones with the side firing subs and parametric EQ? They look like a set I was asked to set up once in a $200K room.
LL

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post #22 of 23 Old 01-28-2011, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Then you need to paste this image into the picture as well and explain to your wife that now there will be no more black bars.


Are they the ones with the side firing subs and parametric EQ? They look like a set I was asked to set up once in a $200K room.

I was thinking of putting a picture in the frame but not Bond; would have needed to insert some chick flick and then I would take grief from the other forum members.


My speakers are the Prelude Compositions PF-R's, the Infinity model prior to the Prelude MTS version you might have seen that introduced RABOS, the EQ system. They sound as good today as when I bought them. I would have thought the driver foam surrounds would have rotted away by now but the dark, cool conditions and infrequent use in the basement theater seems to preserve them very well.
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post #23 of 23 Old 01-28-2011, 11:27 PM
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I was thinking of putting a picture in the frame but not Bond; would have needed to insert some chick flick and then I would take grief from the other forum members.

Like this one?


This is the little surprise I got when I first loaded my copy of FIGHT CLUB on Blu-ray Disc! Nice one!

Quote:


My speakers are the Prelude Compositions PF-R's, the Infinity model prior to the Prelude MTS version you might have seen that introduced RABOS, the EQ system. They sound as good today as when I bought them. I would have thought the driver foam surrounds would have rotted away by now but the dark, cool conditions and infrequent use in the basement theater seems to preserve them very well.

OK it was the RABOS system set I got to play with. What a PITA to do and I kept the RABOS system too after that too.
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