Isco 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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The Isco 4. First one in the USA, provided to design a new mount plate for the CineSlide (IscoScope) lens transport. The fact that all other lenses compare themselves to this lens as the reference benchmark speaks for itself. Now it has a new name, new face, even smoother mechanicals. Sorry abut the watermarks, but I prefer to not have my photos used by others without credit.

It's pictured with the new Multistand attached to a redesigned CineSlide mount plate. The 4 is larger and that changed it's center of gravity, thus the need for a different mount plate.

I didn't take any photos of the 4 sitting beside an Isco III, but I did take some of the new Multistand. You can see the size difference in the multistands. The Isco 4 is slightly larger. Its focus is adjusted by the familiar 3 o-ring "grippers" on the outside of the lens body. It's adjustment is smooth as glass (no pun intended ).

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Old 03-20-2011, 10:31 AM
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Does this bring a end to the III or is the 4 added as an additional SKU?

Looks like a significant change in outside diameter.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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This lens will replace the IIIL.
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:17 PM
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Is it around the same price as the IIIL?

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Old 03-20-2011, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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It won't be cheaper if that's what you are looking for. Actual pricing TBD. I'm hoping to work something out along the lines of a AVS discount with the AVS management.
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:45 PM
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Are the optics any different from the Isco IIIL? Looks like a sweet piece of equipment.

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Old 03-20-2011, 04:45 PM
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Thanks for the images Scott.

From the photos, it does not appear to have a meniscus or any other "5th element" on the front, so appears the classic 4 element design using "two lumps of glass" (a design apparently dating back to the 1920s) must still be relevant

In fact, it looks bigger and heavier than the ISCO III L

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Are the optics any different from the Isco IIIL? Looks like a sweet piece of equipment.

That's what i wanted to know, is there a major improvement Scott?

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Thanks for the images Scott.

From the photos, it does not appear to have a meniscus or any other "5th element" on the front, so appears the classic 4 element design using "two lumps of glass" (a design apparently dating back to the 1920s) must still be relevant

In fact, it looks bigger and heavier than the ISCO III L

You kidding me I thought it would of. You think they learn

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:25 PM
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You kidding me I thought it would of. You think they learn

The 5th Element is probably earmarked for the Isco 5e (geddit? )

As we speak they are carefully dismantling one of several Crystalmorphic 5e's they've bought, to find out how a lil' Aussie battler designed such a wonderful giant killing lens!!

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:32 PM
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The 5th Element is probably earmarked for the Isco 5e (geddit? )

Ha ha very true.

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Old 03-20-2011, 11:58 PM
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The 5th Element is probably earmarked for the Isco 5e (geddit? )

Seriously, if they were going to do something like that, don't you think they would have done so with this lens?

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As we speak they are carefully dismantling one of several Crystalmorphic 5e's they've bought, to find out how a lil' Aussie battler designed such a wonderful giant killing lens!!

What was the comment Kenster48 made? Something about standing in a circle?

In a nutshell, the meniscus is a curved lens that gets progressively thicker towards the edges. If positioned so the ends face the projector, it will optically compress (the exact amount will be based on the relationship between the two curved surfaces) progressively from the edges. In the lens you've mentioned, it is used to correct grid distortion which is essentially a progressive over stretch of the image towards the edges caused by the anamorphic pair, which based on the posts by Aussie Bob where single radii to keep the glass design thin. The glass in the ISCO is thick. It has to be to support mutli radii design. They also have four curved surfaces in their anamorphic pair.

So the 5th element is kind of like an optical version of applying an equal but opposite force (done in this case with bending light) to hopefully cancel out grid distortion, that results in its almost perfect geometry. It is not magic or that complex. If I can figure it out, I am sure the optical engineers in Germany did already.

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Old 03-21-2011, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Seriously, if they were going to do something like that, don't you think they would have done so with this lens?



What was the comment Kenster48 made? Something about standing in a circle?

In a nutshell, the meniscus is a curved lens that gets progressively thicker towards the edges. If positioned so the ends face the projector, it will optically compress (the exact amount will be based on the relationship between the two curved surfaces) progressively from the edges. In the lens you've mentioned, it is used to correct grid distortion which is essentially a progressive over stretch of the image towards the edges caused by the anamorphic pair, which based on the posts by Aussie Bob where single radii to keep the glass design thin. The glass in the ISCO is thick. It has to be to support mutli radii design. They also have four curved surfaces in their anamorphic pair.

So the 5th element is kind of like an optical version of applying an equal but opposite force (done in this case with bending light) to hopefully cancel out grid distortion, that results in its almost perfect geometry. It is not magic or that complex. If I can figure it out, I am sure the optical engineers in Germany did already.

I know ZERO about lens design.....was just havin a bit O' fun!

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Old 03-21-2011, 11:53 AM
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Well it looks like everyone's ISCO III is obsolete. Time to upgrade your lenses. Can't wait for the used IIIL's to flood the market so I can finally afford one.
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by zamboniman View Post

Well it looks like everyone's ISCO III is obsolete. Time to upgrade your lenses. Can't wait for the used IIIL's to flood the market so I can finally afford one.

Apart from being larger I'm curios to know if the optics are better that the III

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Old 03-21-2011, 12:59 PM
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Well it looks like everyone's ISCO III is obsolete. Time to upgrade your lenses. Can't wait for the used IIIL's to flood the market so I can finally afford one.

Me too and do it soon, so I can still sell my Isco II to an unsuspecting buyer.

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Old 03-21-2011, 03:20 PM
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I've got to believe there is still a good market for used ISCO II and III...that may change when the new prismasonic lens comes out.....but until then, there are those of us that are looking to upgrade from our prism lens at a reasonable price.

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Old 03-21-2011, 04:02 PM
 
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In a nutshell, the meniscus is a curved lens that gets progressively thicker towards the edges.

Wrong.

The essential feature of a meniscus lens, "in a nutshell", is only that both faces are curved in the same direction.

See this illustration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lens2a.png

If the quoted passage above was true the the entire optical prescription industry for reading glasses is living a lie, as it relies on meniscus lenses that get progressively thinner towards the edges.

Quote:


If positioned so the ends face the projector, it will optically compress..

As is apparent in the diagram, there are positive and negative meniscus lenses. Only the former optically compresses a beam, the latter expands it.

A meniscus lens that "gets progressively thicker towards the edges" is a negative meniscus... thus it will expand a beam, not compress it... so there goes that theory up in smoke.

It doesn't look like anything's been "figured out" at all.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:53 PM
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Hopefully we can keep this thread focused on the Isco 4 and not let it get derailed by griping about other lens designs. Discussions regarding other lenses may become relevant once we have info on the Isco 4's design and performance and can make direct, objective comparisons to other lenses.

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Old 03-21-2011, 05:46 PM
 
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Hopefully we can keep this thread focused on the Isco 4 and not let it get derailed by griping about other lens designs. Discussions regarding other lenses may become relevant once we have info on the Isco 4's design and performance and can make direct, objective comparisons to other lenses.

Agreed, with an escape clause if more uninformed hogwash like post #12 above is put up as "expert" comment.

Prediction: I'd bet the design of the optics hasn't changed at all. Maybe bigger lenses, maybe just a bigger casing, but as to refractive qualities and glass shape, unchanged.

Why change "perfection"? Make it bigger and more expensive, and some here have already told us it must automatically be better.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenster48 View Post


Agreed, with an escape clause if more uninformed hogwash like post #12 above is put up as "expert" comment.

Prediction: I'd bet the design of the optics hasn't changed at all. Maybe bigger lenses, maybe just a bigger casing, but as to refractive qualities and glass shape, unchanged.

Why change "perfection"? Make it bigger and more expensive, and some here have already told us it must automatically be better.

Maybe the optics have changed Aussie Bob. Waiting to hear from Scott to confirm.

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:31 PM
 
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Maybe the optics have changed Aussie Bob. Waiting to hear from Scott to confirm.
Yes, unlikely to hear from Isco (actually now Schneider isn't it?) as they like to remain silent and mysterious.

If the optics have changed, then the old Isco wasn't so "perfect" after all, I guess.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenster48

Yes, unlikely to hear from Isco (actually now Schneider isn't it?) as they like to remain silent and mysterious.

If the optics have changed, then the old Isco wasn't so "perfect" after all, I guess.
Exactly! What is the reason for another lens if the Isco III was meant to be the best.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:25 PM
 
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Exactly! What is the reason for another lens if the Isco III was meant to be the best.
Several possible reasons, besides new optical design:

1. To get potential customers assuming the optics are better, therefore willing to pay more. I'd bet the first person to swap out a III for a IV will swear blind the IV's better.

2. New ownership (Schneider) might want to change the shape/size for reasons of corporate pride. They bought out Isco. Must have cost large $$$. Isco make (correction: made) many different types of lenses (e.g. medical, commercial cinema), not only HT ones. Some, I guess, Schneider would re-badge, they'd discard some, and redo cosmetics on others.

3. Heavier bigger lenses are clearly better. The resident experts have already told us this as a fact. It must therefore be true.

4. Competition from minnow lens makers (round up the usual suspects) has, for various reasons, combined to justify a re-launch, with a new look.

5. Irrationality at the top of Schneider management: they took something that wasn't broke and fixed it. It's happened before with everything from cars to airplanes, why not lenses?

6. Mechanical improvements.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:43 PM
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Going back on topic (though I enjoyed it) im interested to know if there is a difference in optics between the Isco III and IV.

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Old 03-22-2011, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Someone had it right. Can't say who, yet
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Old 03-29-2011, 02:30 PM
 
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Hey Scott,
The Isco 4 looks nice but I don't see how it could be a lot better than the 3L. I'm really enjoying mine so far.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:34 AM
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So when will we see some test results?

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Old 03-30-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
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Hey Scott,
The Isco 4 looks nice but I don't see how it could be a lot better than the 3L. I'm really enjoying mine so far.

I'm guessing this new one is based on size being slightly larger than the 3L. I don't think you will find any difference in quality but I could be wrong.

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Old 03-31-2011, 07:58 AM
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Scott,
I would love more info on this. The lens I wanted doesn't seem to be coming out anytime soon, so if the 4's prices are good or they drive the 3's prices down please let me know! Thanks!

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