Originally Posted by Bigus
I would agree with a larger screen such that speakers are behind if you are personally comfortable with that width scope screen. The bigger the better until it gets distracting or until you can't find a projector to light it.
My screen is just 8 feet wide. My cinema room is a 1/10th down scale of a real cinema. And it works extremely well.
But I can't agree with such narrow angle between speakers. You are simply doing a disservice to your audio. As a guy who makes and sells anmorphic lenses, I can completely understand that video and having things 'match' the video is of utmost importance to you. That's understandable. Bit you accept a compromised audio solution by doing so.
What does making and selling anamorphic lenses have to do with speaker locations? If the speaker locations are incorrect, having the best anamorphic lens won't help your audio.
Speakers behind a screen provide sound cues to match the visuals on screen. If your speakers are too wide, this simply does not happen because you see the source of the sound at one point and hear its sound cue at another. The eyes and ears take in two the two sensory inputs for the brain to process and there is a conflict. Your brain tells you something is wrong.
Have you ever visited a real dubbing stage? They have their speakers just inside the 1.85:1 area. They do this because real cinemas have the L and R speakers in the same place. So when listening to a soundtrack, you ideally want to hear the sounds coming from the same position the sound mixers heard (and mixed to) if you want to accurately reproduce the event.
Because my room is a scaled down version of that, it made perfect sense to place the speakers at the same positions. Also because my screen is wall to wall, I would not want the speakers any further apart anyway.
The ITR-U was formulated to provide a uniform world wide standard for multi channel audio mixing like SACD and DVD-A. However when sound accompanies a picture, the ITU-R's 60 degrees is not the best set up. 45 degrees is actually better and why both THX and Dolby show this on their sites.
And I don't for a second buy that the speakers have to be behind the screen to match what is on the screen.
And that suggests that you simply have not heard this for yourself. I know many with solid screens (speakers either under or over the screen) that have moved their speakers in and have made the same claims - that sound cues better match the visuals. Many members have posted their views on this after some serious listening.
Afterall what I've suggested is a difference of just a couple of degrees from screen edge to speaker location. ie, speaker essentially right beside the screen. And match what, exactly? Sounds on the screen? Sounds just off the screen? Are you telling me that a sound produced from an object 22 deg left of center on screen will be mixed to pan to exactly 22 deg left of center?
You seem to be forgetting about the smaller ARs that Constant Image Height systems support. Sound needs to match ALL aspect rations, not just Scope.
THX BAFFLE WALLTHX CINEMA ROOM IN PLAN
Can you show me the dolby or thx or whoever specs that say all movies are mixed this way and that therefore is only one correct ratio between screen size and L/R mains? In fact those organizations list a range of speaker positions and screen sizes. You can't ensure the kind standardized match it would require for your argument to stand with a range of positions and sizes. Exactly where behind the screen are your speakers supposed to be? Five deg from edges? Ten? From 2.35:1 or 1.78:1? Do you have to move your speakers for each format to remain behind the screen, or accept way too narrow and compromised spacing that doesn't match 2.35:1, or is the whole premise of CIH fundamentally flawed?
The whole reason those "diagrams" exist is because there are many that have NO CLUE what so ever. This is my 21st year of combining sound with video, and over that time I have seen some dreadful interpretations of what the room layout should look like.
CIH is not flawed anymore so than CIW or CIA. In the end, there will be some compromise at some point when using just three speakers to describe what should be an endless plain.
Obviously it is not. Place your speakers where they work the best sonically, which is very near 60 deg, especially if you ever listen to music, and size the scree as large as you are comfortable with. If the screen covers the mains, great. If they are just outside the screen edges, they will 'match' the image as well as any other nearly infinite combination of position and screen size and aspect ratio that you could face. Don't compromise sonics because a lens guy says to or because theaters (that have seating positions all over the board andany well outside the recommended and prederrable angles) do.
What makes 60 degrees "optimal" anyway? Sure it does provide a good wide stage, however so does 50 degrees and 70 degrees is even wider so that surely would be better still. 60 degrees works for music only because there is no image to provide a point of reference as to where the sound cues actually came. I'll use an example from Jurassic Park. After the power has been restored, the phone rings and the sound cue (and the visual) clearly indicate that the event (the phone call) occurred on the left hand side of the screen. Now if your speakers are wider than they should be (just inside the 1.85:1 area), you see the phone on the left and you hear the ring from somewhere else. Very distracting and not very convincing. This is simple example because there is no other major sound cues happening at the time. There are many others I like to use as an example, however I simply do not have the time right now. Though I do suggest a close listen to FINDING NEMO where Dori and Marlin first meet. Note the pan used on Dori's voice from centre to right. This only works if:
A the speakers are correctly positioned and
B the calibration is correct - ie no running the centre channel hot.
I met a sound mixer in the 1990's who did live sound mixing for a bands. He once told me a very interesting point. He said that when the sound system is perfectly balanced, no-one complains. However when it is not, people comment even when they lack the words to describe the upset it has caused them.
I've brought people that I would consider "audiophiles" into my room to experience my system. I've not had ANY complaints about the sound system. I have had many compliments about how seamless the sound to picture match was though. The truth is, when the system is set up correctly, it goes unnoticed.
Home Theatre, Home Cinema, call it what you will is about recreating the real cinema experience in the home. Unless you are prepared to mimic the speaker placements of a real cinema, you will never hear the sound track (the art itself) the same as it was intended to be heard or the way it was mixed.