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post #1 of 19 Old 02-09-2012, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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So I can find inexpensive 2.35-1 screens, and I can find inexpensive accoustically transparent screens. What I am having trouble with is finding inexpensive 2.35-1 transparent screens. Anyone got any recomendations for a screen in the 130" range?
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post #2 of 19 Old 02-09-2012, 01:53 PM
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post #3 of 19 Old 02-09-2012, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davdev View Post

So I can find inexpensive 2.35-1 screens, and I can find inexpensive accoustically transparent screens. What I am having trouble with is finding inexpensive 2.35-1 transparent screens. Anyone got any recomendations for a screen in the 130" range?

I tested the Dragonfly Acoustiweave a couple of years back, and was quite surprised at how good it is and its value. Using a reference light source, mid-day sun, I tested it for color and gain. It was within 50 degrees Kelvin of the sun light using my ISF calibration tools. Gain is around 1.2 +/- .1.

The weave is very fine and rotated in the frame to resist moire. The weave is completely invisible beyond about 4-5' distance. I would have no problem with using with 4K. The frame is very sturdy with a very black velvet surface. The fabric is easy to attach and has a unique uniform tensioning design. It also comes with an excellent black backing. The largest 2.35 size it comes in is 125" diag which is image width of 115" in 2.35. Not sure if that is big enough for your plans.

It is very afforadable.

I have used it now is several of my projects. If interested, PM me and I'll send a couple of photos of the screen in one of those projects which is a very nice CIH anamorphic/JVC/JBL Synthesis room.

Cheers
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post #4 of 19 Old 02-10-2012, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

I tested the Dragonfly Acoustiweave a couple of years back, and was quite surprised at how good it is and its value. Using a reference light source, mid-day sun, I tested it for color and gain. It was within 50 degrees Kelvin of the sun light using my ISF calibration tools. Gain is around 1.2 +/- .1.

The weave is very fine and rotated in the frame to resist moire. The weave is completely invisible beyond about 4-5' distance. I would have no problem with using with 4K. The frame is very sturdy with a very black velvet surface. The fabric is easy to attach and has a unique uniform tensioning design. It also comes with an excellent black backing. The largest 2.35 size it comes in is 125" diag which is image width of 115" in 2.35. Not sure if that is big enough for your plans.

It is very afforadable.

I have used it now is several of my projects. If interested, PM me and I'll send a couple of photos of the screen in one of those projects which is a very nice CIH anamorphic/JVC/JBL Synthesis room.

Cheers

Sounds interested, but I can't find anywhere to buy them. Any ideas?
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post #5 of 19 Old 02-10-2012, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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actually just realized that the Elite 2.35-1 screens come with an accoustic transparent version

http://www.visualapex.com/Projector-...1W-A1080&AR=HT

Any comments?
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post #6 of 19 Old 02-10-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davdev View Post

actually just realized that the Elite 2.35-1 screens come with an accoustic transparent version

http://www.visualapex.com/Projector-...1W-A1080&AR=HT

Any comments?

I have never had my hands on Elite's AT so I don't know how it performs. They certainly have great prices for DIY. The Dragonfly is only available from custom integrators, and prices land a step higher than the Elite in the same size.

I would like to get hold of the elite AT material to see its weave and test it.

You will find a thread on Elite screens in the screen thread.
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post #7 of 19 Old 02-10-2012, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

The Dragonfly is only available from custom integrators, and prices land a step higher than the Elite in the same size.

It would be nice if the Dragonfly website posted a list of their vendors. Their website is terrible.
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post #8 of 19 Old 02-10-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davdev View Post

It would be nice if the Dragonfly website posted a list of their vendors. Their website is terrible.

Well, you know one, now.

Here are a couple of photos of a theater I did with the Dragonfly. The client is an astronomy enthusiast, so we took high res images from the Hubble and had them made into large (5' x 4') art pieces that double as acoustic treatments.

The perspective is exagerated a bit which makes the screen look smaller than it is. The front row has a 43 degree horizontal viewing angle. RS35 projector with Panamorph. Behind the screen are JBL Synthesis S4V speakers. The screen was a big success visually and acoustically.

That said, I spoke with the regional rep for Elite today, and there are interesting new developments coming from them soon that I think take quality up a notch to more like the Dragonfly...or better. We'll see how pricing lands, but I would think slightly higher than internet/street for current models.
LL
LL
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post #9 of 19 Old 02-11-2012, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

I would like to get hold of the elite AT material to see its weave and test it.

We can get these here and they seem to have a slightly courser weave than the original SmX. I had no complaints about the image.

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post #10 of 19 Old 02-12-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

We can get these here and they seem to have a slightly courser weave than the original SmX. I had no complaints about the image.

Thanks Mark. That's a useful bit of info as I still have some of the original SMX which I tested. Elite now has two newer AT materials arriving, so I'm going to try to get hold of a sample of each to check out. One is a 4K that looks very low in texture...maybe somewhat like Seymour Enlightor 4K, but has something like 1.1 gain.

That you have no complaints about the image is also interesting. OT a bit, but...the coarseness of weaves could certainly be too great, but most are now quite fine. Even the original SMX is quite good once you are beyond 8' or so. It seems there is a lot of consternation over AT screen images not being as sharp as non-AT. That is true at 2' viewing distance maybe, but I've not seen a good AT yet that didn't resolve just as much when viewed at normal viewing distances of 2.5 or 3 viewing heights. You?
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post #11 of 19 Old 02-12-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Thanks Mark. That's a useful bit of info as I still have some of the original SMX which I tested. Elite now has two newer AT materials arriving, so I'm going to try to get hold of a sample of each to check out. One is a 4K that looks very low in texture...maybe somewhat like Seymour Enlightor 4K, but has something like 1.1 gain.

Sounds interesting. I'll have to check them out. The original SmX is what is known as a 2 x 2 weave (95/5). When I saw 4K SmX, the weave itself looked the same, but the holes were much finer. I think we even blogged about the weave not being visible at or just past 3 feet. It was impressive stuff. I can't seem to find the 4K fabric here. The best I have found is a 2 x 1 weave (97/3). The numbers in the brackets represent surface area to hole area, so just 5% for the 2 x 2 and even less at 3% for the 2 x 1. I would love to get some 1 x 1.

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That you have no complaints about the image is also interesting. OT a bit, but...the coarseness of weaves could certainly be too great, but most are now quite fine. Even the original SMX is quite good once you are beyond 8' or so. It seems there is a lot of consternation over AT screen images not being as sharp as non-AT. That is true at 2' viewing distance maybe, but I've not seen a good AT yet that didn't resolve just as much when viewed at normal viewing distances of 2.5 or 3 viewing heights. You?

I am still using the original SmX 2 x 2 weave. My current projector is a BenQW6000 calibrated to 6500k @ 14FL. It is due for another calibration soon and what I noticed is that it seems to shift the FL up over time.

I sit at 2x the image height (my front row) and where the screen height is is just 38". Because my screen is probably as small as one would ever make an AT screen, I have to be careful with how bright I can go. The pixel to hole size is close and the projector is a light cannon. The only way to solve this is to decrease the hole size as increasing screen size is not an option in this room and I have the projector wound right down to be at 14FL.

On a full white field, I can see the weave from that distance. The question is, how many times in a film (and this does happen from time to time) does the screen go full white in a movie? It is probably the one thing that bugs me.

The look of the Elite fabric appears to be slightly more visible than the SmX, but in most home cinemas, you won't notice this.

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post #12 of 19 Old 02-12-2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post


Sounds interesting. I'll have to check them out. The original SmX is what is known as a 2 x 2 weave (95/5). When I saw 4K SmX, the weave itself looked the same, but the holes were much finer. I think we even blogged about the weave not being visible at or just past 3 feet. It was impressive stuff. I can't seem to find the 4K fabric here. The best I have found is a 2 x 1 weave (97/3). The numbers in the brackets represent surface area to hole area, so just 5% for the 2 x 2 and even less at 3% for the 2 x 1. I would love to get some 1 x 1.

I am still using the original SmX 2 x 2 weave. My current projector is a BenQW6000 calibrated to 6500k @ 14FL. It is due for another calibration soon and what I noticed is that it seems to shift the FL up over time.

I sit at 2x the image height (my front row) and where the screen height is is just 38". Because my screen is probably as small as one would ever make an AT screen, I have to be careful with how bright I can go. The pixel to hole size is close and the projector is a light cannon. The only way to solve this is to decrease the hole size as increasing screen size is not an option in this room and I have the projector wound right down to be at 14FL.

On a full white field, I can see the weave from that distance. The question is, how many times in a film (and this does happen from time to time) does the screen go full white in a movie? It is probably the one thing that bugs me.

The look of the Elite fabric appears to be slightly more visible than the SmX, but in most home cinemas, you won't notice this.

That elite would be the perfect fit for me if they could put it on a motorized screen.
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post #13 of 19 Old 02-13-2012, 12:23 AM
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Here is the two types of weave (2 x 2 and 2 x 1) I was talking about. left is the 2 x 2 which is the original SmX which is 95/5. On the right is the new 2 x 1 which is 97/3. I would like to get 1 x 1 when it comes available.
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post #14 of 19 Old 02-13-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post


Here is the two types of weave (2 x 2 and 2 x 1) I was talking about. left is the 2 x 2 which is the original SmX which is 95/5. On the right is the new 2 x 1 which is 97/3. I would like to get 1 x 1 when it comes available.

Excellent demo photos. Thank you. I'm not familiar with "95/5" and "97/3." How is that used or to what does it refer?

There are also finer versions of the original SMX 95/5. Acoustiweave, for instance, looks the same with a magnifying glass, only a smaller scale.
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-13-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Excellent demo photos. Thank you. I'm not familiar with "95/5" and "97/3." How is that used or to what does it refer?

Thanks, not easy to capture. I used sample swatches of each below a tripod with my camera (same settings for both) mounted. I then imported the images into Paint and took just the size I needed (800 x 900) from each before joining the two images to form a 1600 x 900 image. This way, the image retained the original 1:1 pixel mapping from the original shot where resizing the image would have blurred the fine detail.

95% surface area 5% hole and 97% surface area and 3% holes. Both have the same gain, but because the 2 x 1 has a finer weave, you don't need to rotate as much to avoid moire. I tested the original SmX (2 x 2) with an RTA when I need proof my ears weren't playing tricks on me. I've not measured the 2 x 1 but having listened to it am impressed. technically, it should have even better AT properties because of the smaller holes.

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There are also finer versions of the original SMX 95/5. Acoustiweave, for instance, looks the same with a magnifying glass, only a smaller scale.

That is the true 4K SmX. I got to see this at CEDIA 2010 and past 3 feet, the weave was not visible. I got to meet Reuben but he was not prepared to let me take a sample back to Australia. Not sure where he sourced this stuff, but an excellent find. Good on him.

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post #16 of 19 Old 02-13-2012, 03:33 PM
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Ah ha. Thanks again for the education.

I have some new samples coming to test. I'm not sure if they will be big enough to test with the RTA though.

That 97/3 looks really promising, though. Is it an existing screen material?
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post #17 of 19 Old 02-13-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Ah ha. Thanks again for the education.

I have some new samples coming to test. I'm not sure if they will be big enough to test with the RTA though.

That 97/3 looks really promising, though. Is it an existing screen material?

When I did my RTA test, my LCRs were mounted under the screen with no grills (I made them that way because I've always removed grills). So I was struggling to come to terms with the idea that I would be placing fixed grill in front of my speakers by going AT. I had made the screen up and placed it front of the speakers whilst listening to an SACD. I honestly could not hear a difference so got the RTA for some visual proof.

Yes the 97/3 is from the same supplier I found that sells the 95/5 (AKA SmX 2K). They are a re-seller and it would be neat to be able to buy direct off the main supplier.

In fact the 97/3 comes from the same line as the 95/5 and I decided to experiment with it because it was only slightly more expensive - not double or triple the price as some online stores are making out. It comes in a variety of colours including black (for AT masks) along with shades of grey. There is even a white/grey weave combo I am interested in experimenting with.

I have a min $ spend at this company, but can buy the fabric in linear meters (roll width by the meter or parts there of). The rolls come in 2.5m or 3.0m wide, so I just then need the screen width allowing a good meter for rotation. The supplier rolls it onto a PVC pipe and wraps it in paper and them some type of tarp material and will ship it anywhere in the country for me for very little. Freight in AU can be expensive.

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post #18 of 19 Old 02-16-2012, 08:42 PM
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post #19 of 19 Old 02-16-2012, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davecraze View Post

Elite's 4K material:

http://www.elitescreens.com/index.ph...mid=23&lang=en

Yeah, that looks darned impressive. Can't wait to get sample that is on the way.
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