Minimum L - R speaker separation behind at-screen? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-12-2012, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Without building a false wall for the screen, I can get about 18 degrees angle between the L and R speakers and the line from the center speaker to the main seat, see picture. This is less than the recommended 22-30 degrees, but would it be very noticeable? The room is not used for playing music.
I can build a false wall to increase the distance between the speakers, but then I feel that the seating distance would be to small. The screen will be about 280cm wide, and the seating distance about the same, or maybe a little more to the front row. I`ve had a look at the Teufel System 5 THX select-2 system, which have small LCR-speakers only 16cm deep. I do not want smaller speakers than this, I could sacrifice the at-screen and place small speakers below a solid screen, not sure what would work best in my room?
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-14-2012, 03:55 AM
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It may not be noticeable at all if you are mainly watching film. if you listen to music as well, the sound stage may sound slightly narrow.

I have my LCR speakers all inside the 1.78:1 width and the sound matches the picture so well that I don't even think about the sound system anymore - I just sit back and enjoy the movie.

If you can build a baffle wall, your imaging should improve as well.

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post #3 of 14 Old 08-14-2012, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I`ll have another look at your baffle wall.
I will also have a look at the DreamScreen AT-screen material I plan to use tomorrow in a HT-shop. I`m not sure who makes this material, probably from China. Is said to have a very fine weave. If I`m not bothered by the structure from about 2,8m I`ll go AT. If not I`ll mount the speakers below the screen. I currently have B&W Matrix 802 as main speakers. They sounds good, but are fairly large, and I feel that they are better used for music in another room. Also got an ISCO-ii lens from a forum member today. Have not tried lens before, so it will be exciting when it arrives. Hopefully it has large enough diameter for the JVC X30 that I will pick up tomorrow.
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post #4 of 14 Old 08-16-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Got the AT-material yesterday, and have hung it temporarily over my old screen. I see very little structure above ca 2,5m distance, so this is promising! I enclose two close up pictures (about 50cm from screen), where one is the AT-material, and the other my old solid vinyl screen. The third picture is the AT-materiel from the seating position. Pictures taken with camera handheld and 2s self timer. The AT-material is about 93% white (slightly grey)
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post #5 of 14 Old 08-16-2012, 07:37 PM
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Make sure you listen to the system with the speakers behind the AT screen. That is the seller IMO. Sound that actually matches the image is what it is all about.

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post #6 of 14 Old 08-22-2012, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

Make sure you listen to the system with the speakers behind the AT screen. That is the seller IMO. Sound that actually matches the image is what it is all about.

I agree. Back before I had an AT screen, I thought the sound from my below center channel was good. I decided to perform a test, but not until I knew that I could go AT (small room). I set up my center channel speaker in front of my solid screen at the matching height of my mains. I listened to several movie tracks that I was very familiar with. I could definitely notice a difference and I really noticed a difference when I put the speaker back below the screen, even though the center speaker was aimed at the listening position. In other words don't do this experiment if you can't go to an AT screen because it will show you the difference and if you can't do it ignorance is bliss. smile.gif

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post #7 of 14 Old 08-22-2012, 07:58 AM
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I would not put them that close
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post #8 of 14 Old 08-24-2012, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree that it is noticeable having the center speaker behind the screen. I had this demoed for the first time 2 weeks ago at a shop in Oslo (see http://www.avshop.no/article.aspx?q=sk:59), and I noticed the difference immediately. They don`t use Klipch anymore, I think they now use Alcons CRMS series.

I`ll just have to try the speakers when they arrive, to see if the separation is acceptable. I`ll use my old B&W Matrix 802 in a different room for music. I ordered the small Teufel system 5.2, see http://www.teufelaudio.com/de/heimkino-thx/system-5-thx-select-2-zertifikat-5.2-set-cinema-p152.html?PHPSESSID=432fe68e83c37b2c903c7a8e2fa2b8e2. Sound quality is probably several steps down compared to B&W, but I hope that this system work well enough for movie sound.
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post #9 of 14 Old 08-28-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlcohen View Post

I would not put them that close

It really comes down to what you want to achieve. Yes we all know wider is better for STEREO, however motion picture sound actually requires speaker placement to provide sound cues that match the onscreen visuals, so a nice wide sound stage does not work as well as having the LCRs placed proportionally to the width of the Scope screen.

In my case, I did allot of testing before deciding where to place my LCRs. I also got to visit a THX certified dubbing stage and see for myself where they placed their speakers. It made sense to me to replicate that on a smaller scale and it works. The idea has been challenged many times and everyone that visits my room gets to hear the sound stage that matches the images on screen. I've never had anyone able to make negative comment after they listen to the system.

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post #10 of 14 Old 08-29-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

It really comes down to what you want to achieve. Yes we all know wider is better for STEREO, however motion picture sound actually requires speaker placement to provide sound cues that match the onscreen visuals, so a nice wide sound stage does not work as well as having the LCRs placed proportionally to the width of the Scope screen.
In my case, I did allot of testing before deciding where to place my LCRs. I also got to visit a THX certified dubbing stage and see for myself where they placed their speakers. It made sense to me to replicate that on a smaller scale and it works. The idea has been challenged many times and everyone that visits my room gets to hear the sound stage that matches the images on screen. I've never had anyone able to make negative comment after they listen to the system.



Mark,

How wide is your scope screen and do you place your Left / Right mains at the very far edges of the screen just inside the screen frame borders?

Additionaly, when watching a 16:9 picture does having the speakers outboard of the 16:9 screen area still perform optimally? confused.gif


Thanks!


...Glenn smile.gif
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-29-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

Mark,
How wide is your scope screen and do you place your Left / Right mains at the very far edges of the screen just inside the screen frame borders?
Additionaly, when watching a 16:9 picture does having the speakers outboard of the 16:9 screen area still perform optimally? confused.gif
Thanks!
...Glenn smile.gif

Hi Glenn! See post #2
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post #12 of 14 Old 08-30-2012, 06:46 AM
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Hi Glenn! See post #2
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-30-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar View Post

Without building a false wall for the screen, I can get about 18 degrees angle between the L and R speakers and the line from the center speaker to the main seat, see picture. This is less than the recommended 22-30 degrees, but would it be very noticeable? The room is not used for playing music.
I can build a false wall to increase the distance between the speakers, but then I feel that the seating distance would be to small. The screen will be about 280cm wide, and the seating distance about the same, or maybe a little more to the front row. I`ve had a look at the Teufel System 5 THX select-2 system, which have small LCR-speakers only 16cm deep. I do not want smaller speakers than this, I could sacrifice the at-screen and place small speakers below a solid screen, not sure what would work best in my room?

I don't see why this would pose a problem at all. Audyssey's latest 9.1+ setups recommend 30 degrees separation between your fronts. According to that you're golden. While not ideal for music, it's perfect for movie viewing. I think it's pretty tough to design a perfect movie and music setup. There will always be some compromises. I think for most people in this forum, they would prefer to lean towards a better movie setup than music.

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post #14 of 14 Old 08-30-2012, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

Mark,
How wide is your scope screen and do you place your Left / Right mains at the very far edges of the screen just inside the screen frame borders?
Additionaly, when watching a 16:9 picture does having the speakers outboard of the 16:9 screen area still perform optimally? confused.gif
Thanks!
...Glenn smile.gif

My screen is 8 feet wide and the three LCRs are all inside the 16:9 area. I watched a bit of (first half) BOLT with my youngest and he insisted on sitting in the back row. Even with such a narrow angle, the localization of sound effects amazes me.

Mark Techer

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