Does your Blu-ray player matter? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 04-08-2013, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, my screen comes in wednesday! FINALLY!

Does the Blu-Ray player matter?

I have an Oppo-93 downstairs connected to my 65", and I kinda want to keep it there so that we can BRs down there in a pinch at 1080i.

Should I buy an Oppo-93 off eBay? A -103 from the store?

its for a JVC X95.

TIA

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post #2 of 21 Old 04-08-2013, 07:38 PM
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I would definitely look at moving the Oppo 93 or purchase a new one for your JVC. You will want to get the best possible output for a projector of that calibre.
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post #3 of 21 Old 04-09-2013, 12:39 AM
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I own an Oppo 93 myself having previously owned a basic Sony player. At the time I got it I had a JVC HD350 projector (now X35) and just to warn you that for 1080/24p I felt there was NO difference in picture quality and the calibration wasn't even effected when I checked using the AVS HD709 test patterns. I didn't expect there to be since I bought the Oppo for it's on board HD sound decoding, subtitle shift and source direct (to allow my Lumagen to upscale DVDs) so I wasn't disappointed with it.

IMHO you'll get more 'improvement' by getting a Darbee though to be fair not everyone likes the result, most seem to.

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post #4 of 21 Old 04-09-2013, 04:26 AM
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Sadly all players are not equal and whilst even cheap BD players seem to output a good image, some still don't pass PLUGE. Anyway, for CIH, you really need a player that can shift subtitles.

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post #5 of 21 Old 04-09-2013, 08:43 AM
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I should add that my basic Sony and Oppo both pass the pluge test and from what I understand they both output correctly unlike some players which do mess about with the signal. However some research should sort the wheat from the chaff if the other features aren't required. Blindly buying a more expensive player for 'better picture quality' isn't really necessary IMHO, though as Mark says you'll need the subtitle shift if you plan to use an A lens (though when I zoomed I just had an extra wide bottom border which still allowed me to see the white subtitles well enough).

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post #6 of 21 Old 04-09-2013, 09:50 AM
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There's a lot of talk in the Blu-ray Players forum at the moment that the OPPO BDP-103 has some amount of non-defeatable DNR on the HDMI 1 output. The HDMI 2 output (which bypasses the Qdeo processing chip) is preferred by many users. I'm not certain at the moment if the DBP-93 has the same issue.

Both the 93 and 103 are inferior to the older DBP-83 for DVD upconversion (though the 83 doesn't do 3D, if that's a concern).

For reasons like this, unfortunately, not all Blu-ray players are created equally.

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post #7 of 21 Old 04-09-2013, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I was reading about the 103's DNR issue, but was thinking that would be addressed in a firmware update.

i have a Toshiba XA2 for upscaling (allegedly it does really good upscaling, i haven't had the opportunity to really test it)

So I guess a 93 off of eBay might be in order.

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post #8 of 21 Old 04-10-2013, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

There's a lot of talk in the Blu-ray Players forum at the moment that the OPPO BDP-103 has some amount of non-defeatable DNR on the HDMI 1 output. The HDMI 2 output (which bypasses the Qdeo processing chip) is preferred by many users. I'm not certain at the moment if the DBP-93 has the same issue.

Both the 93 and 103 are inferior to the older DBP-83 for DVD upconversion (though the 83 doesn't do 3D, if that's a concern).

For reasons like this, unfortunately, not all Blu-ray players are created equally.

But if 1080/24p is the bulk of your viewing (as in my case) buying a more expensive player is just vanity IMHO. Having compared a basic (but accurate) player to the dearer Oppo (not using the Qdeo processing since I have a Lumagen which IMHO is better at upscaling anyway) I wouldn't have 'upgraded' for picture quality reasons. It's the other features (onboard HD decoding, subtitle shift and source direct mode) that add value to the Oppo in my case.

It just seems to be a common myth that a dearer player will give a 'better' picture. I've even known people to claim 'better motion' too, which again I found no such thing. Still unless you plan on watching lots of DVDs or the items that I listed are your requirements I don't see the point, though it's not my money that's being wasted...

So in answer to the OP 'does your BluRay player matter?' the answer is 'yes' if you watch lots of DVDs or need the extra features that the cheaper players don't offer. If you're just watching 1080/24p BluRays then you might get a genuine improvement by spending money elsewhere on your set up.

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post #9 of 21 Old 04-10-2013, 04:46 AM
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So if one were looking for a new BD Player, which ones would have Subtitle Shift and Native/source direct output?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #10 of 21 Old 04-10-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

So if one were looking for a new BD Player, which ones would have Subtitle Shift and Native/source direct output?

All OPPO models have both features.

Some Philips models sold overseas (but not Philips models sold in the U.S.) have subtitle shift. Not sure about native resolution output.

I believe there's one other brand that has a model with subtitle shift, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

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post #11 of 21 Old 04-10-2013, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

So if one were looking for a new BD Player, which ones would have Subtitle Shift and Native/source direct output?

Is native output refering to true 1920 x 1080 or upscaling of DVD? I would assume all BD players set to 1080P/24 would output the full 1920 x 1080 image. I would question why anyone would not want to upscale a lower rez source.
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

All OPPO models have both features.

Some Philips models sold overseas (but not Philips models sold in the U.S.) have subtitle shift. Not sure about native resolution output.

I believe there's one other brand that has a model with subtitle shift, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

It seems the 21:9 feature in the set up menu has been removed on this new Phillips 3D player I have. The STs still shift the same as the previous 21:9 equipped models.

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post #12 of 21 Old 04-10-2013, 02:51 PM
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Native/source direct means that it's easier to use an external video processor to do the upscaling since this means the VP will be fed with SD from DVDs and 1080/24p (or 1080/60i) from BluRays without having to keep going into the menu to change the output resolution manually. From my experience my Lumagen Mini3D upscales DVDs (PAL) better than my Oppo 93 does so it's a useful feature for me.

My first Sony BluRay player had source direct, but they took it off the later (faster) models which was a backwards step IMHO. Likewise the Phillips players had the subtitle shift, but not sure if current UK models have it now, so if it is a requirement then the only option seems to be Oppo by default.

I had forgotten that this thread is in the CIH section so my comments about not buying a more expensive player are more aimed at the flat screen owners since they would have less need of those features (hard to tell if the upscaling is any better with an external processor on a tiny 50" display anyway wink.gif ). I've often seen it asked though in combination with someone buying a new TV and unfortunately there are often many replies suggesting it's a good idea as if the dearer player will give a better picture on BluRays..so it's a kind of 'pet hate' of mine.

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post #13 of 21 Old 04-10-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

I would question why anyone would not want to upscale a lower rez source.

Because I have a Lumagen Radiance XE, I don't need (or want) an inferior device doing the scaling wink.gif

I keep looking at getting a new BD player, but my Pioneer 51FD just keeps plugging along (and Pioneer keeps releasing the infrequently needed updates for compatibility). Now that I've got a Radiance (or even before when it was "just" the Gennum in my AVM50V), and my 50V doing decoding I no longer need a "fancy" BD player, I just need one that will output what's on the disc without messing with it. Actually with how infrequently I've had issues with subtitles, it's probably not worth getting one with ST shifting.

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post #14 of 21 Old 04-10-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post



Because I have a Lumagen Radiance XE, I don't need (or want) an inferior device doing the scaling wink.gif

I wouldn't call an OPPO inferior wink.gif I wish I had one.

ST shift is useful because sometimes you have to wonder why they placed the STs where they did. KILL BILL Vol 1 is right above the black bar and AVATAR has them about 1/3rd into the image height. It is nice to know I can shift these up or down if required.

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post #15 of 21 Old 04-11-2013, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

I wouldn't call an OPPO inferior wink.gif I wish I had one.

Nope, but I would call it's scaling inferior to a Radiance wink.gif That said, I was thinking i could get a cheaper Pioneer, because my current one has source direct, but it's looking like Pioneer no longer offers that.
My dad needs a BD player so I was thinking it might make sense for me to get a less expensive one, seeing as I don't need anything fancy (audio decoding, scaling, etc) and he could have mine since audio decoding would be handy for his setup. But it looks like there might be no alternative to an Oppo if I want just Source Direct even frown.gif.
Quote:
ST shift is useful because sometimes you have to wonder why they placed the STs where they did. KILL BILL Vol 1 is right above the black bar and AVATAR has them about 1/3rd into the image height. It is nice to know I can shift these up or down if required.

Oh, I can definitely see the use, and it would be nice to have. But I was thinking there would be a BD player with source direct for a couple hundred less than an Oppo, but it's not looking good.

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post #16 of 21 Old 04-11-2013, 10:17 AM
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There have been quite a few people selling off their BDP93 Oppos since the new models have come out (obviously they are rushing out to buy the new models for the 'improved image quality' rolleyes.gif) so let their ignorance do you a favour. wink.gif

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post #17 of 21 Old 04-11-2013, 04:01 PM
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Ignorance is bliss. Remember this?

Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray Player (Oppo BDP-83 Clone) Review
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone

I agree with Mr. Zyber about the BDP-83 and its upcaling properties. It also had better build quality. I've gone though the 83, 93, 103, and now the 105 in rack systems I configure at work, and for our application, they have all been fairly bulletproof in day to day operation - but I thought the 83 was a solid machine.
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post #18 of 21 Old 04-11-2013, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

There have been quite a few people selling off their BDP93 Oppos since the new models have come out (obviously they are rushing out to buy the new models for the 'improved image quality' rolleyes.gif) so let their ignorance do you a favour. wink.gif

Except the "deals" on the ones I've seen really aren't that great.

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post #19 of 21 Old 04-11-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Except the "deals" on the ones I've seen really aren't that great.

Yes. If the 93's were cheaper on eBay, this thread wouldn't be here, i would have just bought one.

They are going for near retail.

So I am trying to find out if I really need that good of a player for Blu-ray, since I have teh HD-DVD player for upscaling.

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post #20 of 21 Old 04-12-2013, 12:39 AM
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For once the UK isn't so bad (unless you're selling a 93) since they seem to have dropped to 2/3 or less when they do come up for sale. Of course we probably pay more than you do to start with, but that's for another thread. In fact very little secondhand AV equipment gets more than about 2/3 even if pretty new over here: I never understood people taking the chance on secondhand and still paying nearly the full price myself: If you can afford say £450 then may as well pay £500 for brand new is my feeling, since you have no protection buying used over here (unless the warranty is transferable unlike say JVC projectors mad.gif). However 93s seem to go for around £300 which is a worthwhile saving to counter the risk.

@TK Doom, if you don't need the subtitle shift feature or the source direct function then maybe you don't need to spend a fortune on a BluRay player. Just do some research to make sure the player you fancy doesn't mess with the output (even my old Sony managed to output correctly, so it doesn't have to be an Oppo). If you're happy with the upscaling from the HD DVD player then much of the improvement of a dearer player would be wasted IMHO.

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post #21 of 21 Old 04-12-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post


@TK Doom, if you don't need the subtitle shift feature or the source direct function then maybe you don't need to spend a fortune on a BluRay player. Just do some research to make sure the player you fancy doesn't mess with the output (even my old Sony managed to output correctly, so it doesn't have to be an Oppo). If you're happy with the upscaling from the HD DVD player then much of the improvement of a dearer player would be wasted IMHO.


Thanks for input!

I just started this pre-emptively so if there was something close to a finite answer, I'd have it prior to projector arriving.

I have my Oppo-93 I can lug upstairs to try and a new Panasonic 230 to try and see...one is a $500 player, the other a $130 player...

Maybe I can rent some blu-rays so i can a/b them...

go me!

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