2.35 with the Lumagen Mini question - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 06-15-2013, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I am moving into a new theater and putting in a 2.35 screen. I am using a Epson 8350 projector at the moment, but upgrade the projector in the future. I will be zooming to achieve 2.35. I realize that this is not the ideal projector for this, but it is what it is. I have low ceilings and want the grand theater effect.

I know with the Lumagen Mini processor you can achieve CIH without having to keep getting up and manually adjusting the projector. It would work as lens memory in a way for the Epson 8350. My question on the Lumagen is this, can you eliminate the overspill of black bars by masking them in the processor or will the unit only do the zooming and still leave the overspill. If it still leaves the overspill I might as well just by a new projector that has lens memory as the cost would not be much different. If it does however allow you to mask the overspill, I can use the processor with any projector I get.
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post #2 of 13 Old 06-15-2013, 11:15 AM
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The Mini has electronic masking that can be used to mask the black bar area. This is useful to keep things like menus from spilling off the screen and it works great for watching variable AR films like The Dark Knight. But keep in mind there is still light projected in the black bars that could be visible on some dark scenes. Going with black velvet on your screen frame and screen wall should make this a non-issue. Also most lens memory projectors can't do enough electronic masking to help with this. Obviously they do have advantages for the AR changes.

BTW, if budget is a factor, consider going with a used DVDO VP50. It can do the CIH AR changes, as well as do electronic masking of the black bars. It is easy to set up, works very well, and can be had for around $300.
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post #3 of 13 Old 06-15-2013, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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The Mini has electronic masking that can be used to mask the black bar area. This is useful to keep things like menus from spilling off the screen and it works great for watching variable AR films like The Dark Knight. But keep in mind there is still light projected in the black bars that could be visible on some dark scenes. Going with black velvet on your screen frame and screen wall should make this a non-issue. Also most lens memory projectors can't do enough electronic masking to help with this. Obviously they do have advantages for the AR changes.

BTW, if budget is a factor, consider going with a used DVDO VP50. It can do the CIH AR changes, as well as do electronic masking of the black bars. It is easy to set up, works very well, and can be had for around $300.

I am aware that there will still be some light coming from the projector where the black bars were masked from, but I would have to imagine that it will be a darker black being projected. Am I wrong in thinking this? Is there really not much of a difference in the amount of light that is still being thrown from the projector on a masked portion of a image? My screen wall is going to be painted a very very dark flat black theatrical paint.

I will look into the VP50, thanks for the tip. Do they still make that model, or have they just changed it enough where I want a older version? If so what do I look for to know it is the version I need? I kind of want to future proof as much as possible (if that is even possible) so I like the idea that the mini will do pass through on scaling and handle 3D. I guess its time to do some reading on the VP50 as I like that price and I am on a budget.
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post #4 of 13 Old 06-16-2013, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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After some following up the VP50 just seems a little to outdated for my use.

Any other budget friendly processors out there that will allow me to work in a no lens CIH setup so I do not have to keep getting up to manually achieve this? Being able to mask is important for mixed AR and removal of the top an bottom black bars when zoomed.

If the Lumagen mini is my best bet I will go for that, but a cheaper product would be nice. I do gain all the benefit of the Lumagen calibration if I go that route.
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post #5 of 13 Old 06-16-2013, 08:56 AM
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When it come to VP's, there really is not a cheap option. The Lumagens are more expensive but are a very good VP. There customer support is top notch and they are always releasing firmware updates for improvements.

As far as the black bars go....it all depends on your projectors black levels. You can not stop the light from the projector where the black bars are. It has nothing to do with the VP's, just the capabilities of your projector. As mentioned above, use black velvet on your screen wall and you will not see the black bars at all.


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post #6 of 13 Old 06-16-2013, 10:48 AM
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Yep, it's strictly the projector black level that determines the darkness of the black bars. Honestly, you might be better off upgrading your projector before thinking about whether you need a VP. The obvious choice for doing the zoom method would be a JVC for its great blacks, lens memory, and less visible pixel structure. One of the best things about CIH is sitting fairly close so all ARs are a good size. This will be difficult using the Epson since the pixels will become very obvious and it will be a more digital, edgy look.
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post #7 of 13 Old 06-16-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, it's strictly the projector black level that determines the darkness of the black bars. Honestly, you might be better off upgrading your projector before thinking about whether you need a VP. The obvious choice for doing the zoom method would be a JVC for its great blacks, lens memory, and less visible pixel structure. One of the best things about CIH is sitting fairly close so all ARs are a good size. This will be difficult using the Epson since the pixels will become very obvious and it will be a more digital, edgy look.

I totally hear you on this, but for whatever reason it would much easier to tell my wife that I need to get a VP for the new theater over a less than two year old projector. Even though it is close in price she will not be able to understand what is wrong with the projector that she bought me less than two years ago for our anniversary. A new projector with lens memory really is the answer here, but I don't think that would go over nearly as well as a VP which could easily be hidden in the equipment rack.
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post #8 of 13 Old 06-21-2013, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Just picked up the Mini today used off of eBay for $1k. Less than a year old. Fingers crossed it works!
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post #9 of 13 Old 06-21-2013, 05:56 PM
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Congrats! Enjoy it. Do a reset when you get it and then do the latest firmware upgrade. There is a manual on there website you can download and print. You can now do CIH if you want to.


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post #10 of 13 Old 06-22-2013, 10:52 PM
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Reading this thread, this lumagen has cought my eye, but since i have no idea how this processor works, i have a few questions if they can be explained in simple terms so i can understand smile.gif

First of all, i have a scope screen and manually do the zoom for 2.35 movies.

1). When watching movies like Batman,the dark night that varies AR, are you guys saying that the overspill that happends on my scope screen when it goes into IMAX mode or 1.85 can be masked somehow so i dont see this overspill and it stays in the same aspect ratio of 2.35?

2). If im watching a 2.35 movie that i have now zoomed manually on my projector(epson 6010) and when movie is finished and i switch to watch a tv or 1.85 AR on my scope screen, how does the lumagen bring back the movie to 1.85 without me going to the projector and manually zooming back out to fit the height of my scope screen?
Does it just electronically shrink it to 1.85? and am i loosing picture quality from if i was to manually zoom it back out like i do now?
Kind of like sliding a anamorphic lens in and out of the way?

3). I have and watch 3D content on BD, so what model lumagen can be used for 2d and 3d and the above AR changes for the cheapest?

cheers
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post #11 of 13 Old 06-23-2013, 05:39 AM
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1. IMAX movies suck for CIH. Simply because they change the ratio during the movie. What you could do so you get a little of both worlds and don't miss a thing is a non linear stretch. This way you will fill the scope screen horizontally at all times and when the movie goes to 2.35 you will have small black bars at the top and bottom. Really no way around that. You will not have spillage off the screen because you will have to set up CIH on your processor and the height will never change. That is the point in constant image height.

2. When you setup CIH on your processor your projector will always be zoomed in. You will never have to touch it again. The processor will change your aspect ratios. The cool thing about that is you can watch everything except 4:3 in 2.35. For 16:9 content you would do a non linear stretch. The nls looks good and looks natural.

3. Any new lumagen will support 3d. If buying used be sure to see if it supports 3d. Some could be older with the upgrade.


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post #12 of 13 Old 06-23-2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MAZMAN808 View Post

Reading this thread, this lumagen has cought my eye, but since i have no idea how this processor works, i have a few questions if they can be explained in simple terms so i can understand smile.gif

First of all, i have a scope screen and manually do the zoom for 2.35 movies.

1). When watching movies like Batman,the dark night that varies AR, are you guys saying that the overspill that happends on my scope screen when it goes into IMAX mode or 1.85 can be masked somehow so i dont see this overspill and it stays in the same aspect ratio of 2.35?

2). If im watching a 2.35 movie that i have now zoomed manually on my projector(epson 6010) and when movie is finished and i switch to watch a tv or 1.85 AR on my scope screen, how does the lumagen bring back the movie to 1.85 without me going to the projector and manually zooming back out to fit the height of my scope screen?
Does it just electronically shrink it to 1.85? and am i loosing picture quality from if i was to manually zoom it back out like i do now?
Kind of like sliding a anamorphic lens in and out of the way?

3). I have and watch 3D content on BD, so what model lumagen can be used for 2d and 3d and the above AR changes for the cheapest?

cheers

1. Yes, the Lumagen has electronic masking that will blank out the black bar area and prevent overspill of the 16:9 scenes. Perfect for variable AR films on a CIH screen.

2. Yes, you can set up the Lumagen so with a single button press it shrinks the 16:9 image to fit the height of your scope screen. It is downscaling the image so vertical resolution goes from 1080 to around 810, but the scaling is very good. If you are ok with the pixel size and general "look" of your zoomed 2.35 images, you should be ok with the downscaled 16:9, at least on most sources. There's no reason you couldn't still zoom the projector occasionally when you want the absolute best PQ/brightness.

3. The Mini should be your best bet for 2d/3d and AR changes for both.

The Lumagen also does a non-linear stretch (NLS) which allows you to fill your scope screen with 16:9 material. It lets you fine tune how much top/bottom cropping vs stretching of the sides/center you do and it works very well. But then you are going away from the original AR and the way the movie was meant to look. wink.gif
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post #13 of 13 Old 07-20-2013, 06:09 AM
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BTW, if budget is a factor, consider going with a used DVDO VP50. It can do the CIH AR changes, as well as do electronic masking of the black bars. It is easy to set up, works very well, and can be had for around $300.

I would like to know where you are finding the VP50 for $300. There's only one up on ebay right now and its "buy it now" price is $799. Do you know if it is capable of doing custom EDID?

I am currently using a Lumagen HDQ and it isn't cutting it for Blu-Ray. I get a fabulous picture for my DVDs, but BDs seem to overwhelm it.

8-bit Bill

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