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-   -   2.35:1 newbie/novice questions (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/117-2-35-1-constant-image-height-chat/1515766-2-35-1-newbie-novice-questions.html)

thestoneman 02-03-2014 10:26 AM

I didn't see a thread for newbie questions here.


Anamorphic lenses are pretty intimidating to me purely due to the cost coupled with the bolt on nature. I'm concerned about the tweaking that may be necessary, but I can't shake the desire to have that immersion only an anamorphic lens can provide...with a simple slide of the lens to show sports.

I guess my question is, am I wrong assuming that I can have the best of both worlds by adding a lens and a 2:35 screen? Is it easy to set up or am I opening up a slew of issues by venturing out of the 16:9 comfort zone?




jeahrens 02-03-2014 11:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestoneman View Post

I didn't see a thread for newbie questions here.


Anamorphic lenses are pretty intimidating to me purely due to the cost coupled with the bolt on nature. I'm concerned about the tweaking that may be necessary, but I can't shake the desire to have that immersion only an anamorphic lens can provide...with a simple slide of the lens to show sports.

I guess my question is, am I wrong assuming that I can have the best of both worlds by adding a lens and a 2:35 screen? Is it easy to set up or am I opening up a slew of issues by venturing out of the 16:9 comfort zone?



Adding a lens isn't terribly difficult. You calculate the screen to projector distance range as if the screen was a 16:9 screen using the height of the screen. The lens manufacturer will have a range that the lens will work in. This should overlap with the projector/screen range. I've always heard that you want to go towards the further end of that range. So for example let's say you are working with a scope screen 54" tall, which would equate to a 110" diagonal 16:9 screen, Your theoretical projector in this example can be as close as 10' and as far as 16' to work with a 110" 16:9 screen. Your lens manufacturer says to keep the lens between 13-15'. You would probably want to set the projector about 14' away to give you some wiggle room. You would need to take into account things like offset and such as well.

Now as far as the lens being the only way to get the anamorphic experience, it isn't. Projectors with lens memory are able to zoom the picture out to fill a scope screen. You will gain brightness with a lens. The image can seem sharper with a lens. Zooming/lens memory will be dimmer and if you are very close to the screen you can start to see pixel structure. My previous projector I used an inexpensive 2 prism lens. My current projector I am using lens memory. I've been very pleased with the lens memory setup. If you have the budget for a good lens, it will provide the best experience. Personally I have other areas to that need the investment more and find lens memory very satisfying picture wise.

thestoneman 02-03-2014 12:35 PM

So you have a 2:35 screen and simply zoom out to fill the entire screen when showing 2:35 content? That may be the way to go for me. I'm a little gun shy about shelling out another 4K for a lens kit...unless it's really worth it.

jeahrens 02-03-2014 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestoneman View Post

So you have a 2:35 screen and simply zoom out to fill the entire screen when showing 2:35 content? That may be the way to go for me. I'm a little gun shy about shelling out another 4K for a lens kit...unless it's really worth it.

Yes. You can manually zoom the projector to fill the area or if the projector has a motorized lens and lens memory you can switch between zoom settings at the press of a button (my JVC has lens memory so it is fully automated). The black bars will spill onto the frame and wall.

I certainly understand on the cost. I simply can't justify the lens expense with my budget.

thestoneman 02-03-2014 12:51 PM

Might have saved me a whole bunch of dough! I really do want that full frame experience, but I want to cheat it a bit if I can. This might be it.

jeahrens 02-03-2014 12:58 PM

We sit about 10' away from a 130" 2.35:1 screen and the zoomed picture looks great. 2.35:1 is certainly the way to go in my opinion. It makes a tremendous difference in how you experience movies at home.

Josh Z 02-03-2014 12:59 PM

The hardest part of installing an anamorphic lens is aligning the picture properly with both the projector and lens at the right angle to give you proper picture geometry with the least pincushion, especially if both are ceiling mounted. This can require some time-consuming trial and error, and a lot of running up to the screen to measure the size of squares in a geometry test pattern, then running back to the projector to nudge it a little bit, then back to the screen, etc.

When I moved into a new house last year, I hired an HT installer to mount my projector. After he put it up, the picture was clearly not aligned properly. He grabbed the remote and pulled up the keystone menu. I had to yell, "Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! What the hell are you doing?" He seemed a little perplexed that I didn't want to use keystone. I was very perplexed that he somehow thought that would be OK. smile.gif

John Schuermann 02-03-2014 01:37 PM

A couple of things:

The use of keystoning to correct for image geometry issues is scarily prevalent. There was a VERY high end A/V company here in Colorado Springs who used to slam every projector up against the ceiling and then keystone the hell out of it. It was literally SOP. The guy who ran the company used to teach classes at CEDIA University on home theater design. Scary!

They are out of business now so I can finally break my silence on this.

FYI you can get a good anamorphic lens system for under $2K.

Stoneman - what projector are you considering? Projectors with lens zoom memory are usually a bit more money.

thestoneman 02-04-2014 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

A couple of things:



Stoneman - what projector are you considering? Projectors with lens zoom memory are usually a bit more money.

John,

I'm wide open at this point, but I'm trying to put in as nice an AV system as possible that doesn't eclipse 8-10K. I have to skimp on something. At this price point, a lens is likely not an option, so I really need the best option to display 2.35 content sans lens.

I'm not afraid to manually zoom. Whatever projector I settle on will be exposed and easily reachable (finished ceiling is 8'-0"). I don't need auto zoom memory.

jeahrens 02-04-2014 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestoneman View Post

John,

I'm wide open at this point, but I'm trying to put in as nice an AV system as possible that doesn't eclipse 8-10K. I have to skimp on something. At this price point, a lens is likely not an option, so I really need the best option to display 2.35 content sans lens.

I'm not afraid to manually zoom. Whatever projector I settle on will be exposed and easily reachable (finished ceiling is 8'-0"). I don't need auto zoom memory.

To use lens memory or a manual zoom, you'll need a projector with lens shift and a good zoom range. Once you settle on the screen size, a vendor, like AVS, should be able to help you settle on some choices. You'll have to consider what your viewing priorities are. For example if you are a 3D fan you'll want to look at something very bright.

John Schuermann 02-04-2014 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestoneman View Post

John,

I'm wide open at this point, but I'm trying to put in as nice an AV system as possible that doesn't eclipse 8-10K. I have to skimp on something. At this price point, a lens is likely not an option, so I really need the best option to display 2.35 content sans lens.

I'm not afraid to manually zoom. Whatever projector I settle on will be exposed and easily reachable (finished ceiling is 8'-0"). I don't need auto zoom memory.

Jeahrens above is correct when he states you will need a projector with lens shift and a good zoom range. When zooming a projector that does not have lens memory, it's usually not as easy as simply zooming the image in to make it larger. You also need to re-center the image as zooming usually results in an image that also shifts up or down. This is where lens shift is a necessity.

You might also consider a projector with excellent black levels (like JVC or Sony) so that the black bars will not be obvious on the wall.

$8 to $10K can buy you a really nice system. Some free advice (take it for what it costs you):

Match the screen material to the room. Painting all room surfaces a dark color will substantially improve picture quality and allow you to use a greater variety of screen materials.

Invest in good speakers (most electronics - receivers, Blu-ray players, etc, are neutral to the source. In other words, they have the *least* impact on sound quality. Speakers vary wildly.)

Don't waste money on fancy interconnects.

Invest in some acoustic treatments (or build your own).

Good luck!

jeahrens 02-04-2014 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post

Jeahrens above is correct when he states you will need a projector with lens shift and a good zoom range. When zooming a projector that does not have lens memory, it's usually not as easy as simply zooming the image in to make it larger. You also need to re-center the image as zooming usually results in an image that also shifts up or down. This is where lens shift is a necessity.

You might also consider a projector with excellent black levels (like JVC or Sony) so that the black bars will not be obvious on the wall.

$8 to $10K can buy you a really nice system. Some free advice (take it for what it costs you):

Match the screen material to the room. Painting all room surfaces a dark color will substantially improve picture quality and allow you to use a greater variety of screen materials.

Invest in good speakers (most electronics - receivers, Blu-ray players, etc, are neutral to the source. In other words, they have the *least* impact on sound quality. Speakers vary wildly.)

Don't waste money on fancy interconnects.

Invest in some acoustic treatments (or build your own).

Good luck!

Great advice there. Especially on speakers. A good set of speakers will serve you for a very long time.

thestoneman 02-04-2014 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post

Great advice there. Especially on speakers. A good set of speakers will serve you for a very long time.

I love this forum...thanks for the advice all!

I attached the plan view of the room. Being so open, I am concerned about acoustical abnormalities and what treatments I should plan for. Bass traps, wall panels, soffit, pilasters... all of the above? Placement of my surrounds is also something I'm not certain of. Planning a 7.1/2 system.

So far the only speaker I've settled on is an SVS sub. Leaning toward Axiom QS8's for surrounds, but I have no idea where to place/mount my rears.


John Schuermann 02-04-2014 03:35 PM

Can you draw in where you plan on putting the screen / furniture, etc?

For everything you ever wanted to know about acoustic treatments, go here:

http://realtraps.com/

A good place to start:

http://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm


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