Anyone with a curved screen wish they had NOT installed it? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 03-23-2014, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm this close to returning my un-opened 176" 2.35:1 screen and getting Elite's 196" Lunette curved instead. If the focusing issues of the edges bug me I'll worry about an anamorphic lens after the install.

I'm just curious if anyone has a curved screen and has decided they don't enjoy it as much as a flat screen. On the fence here.

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post #2 of 30 Old 03-23-2014, 10:15 PM
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Curved screens are about correcting pincushion distortion. They do help correct mild grid distortion as well. So you NEED an anamorphic lens for your curved screen.

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post #3 of 30 Old 03-23-2014, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I realize that, but the curved screen I want is $3,000 U.S. so the lens will have to wait. smile.gif I need a new screen now, you see, so I have to make a decision. I'd rather not buy a flat screen, then get a lens, then spend additional money on a curved screen.

I've decided to try to "build for the future" to save $ on the endless-upgrade bug. This Lunette has a very tight weave that is supposed to be better for the 4K projector which I also do not own but surely will when they get to less than $5,000.

The idea is to buy one screen which will serve well for another 10 years (that's how long I got out of a 100" 16X9 Stewart Firehawk).

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post #4 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 02:04 AM
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I built a curved screen a l8ttle over a year ago when i purchased a panamorph 480. I used the lens a little at 1st but really havent used it for about a year (i plan to sometime)

I have no regrets at all. I dont really notice the edges and imo the curved screen looks pretty darn cool
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post #5 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 02:09 AM
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Btw. Are tou sure you want to go that huge? Ive gone thru several screens and went up ans up in size only to go back down after a while. Im sure a 4k projector will help but you better make sure you are going to love that big of an image.
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post #6 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

Btw. Are tou sure you want to go that huge? Ive gone thru several screens and went up ans up in size only to go back down after a while. Im sure a 4k projector will help but you better make sure you are going to love that big of an image.

Yeah, for an image that size, you need a super-bright projector and/or a very high gain screen, not to mention a seating distance pretty far back. Seems like overkill for most home theater usage.

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post #7 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 12:48 PM
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Yeah that's a huge screen, and as Josh says you are going to need a very bright projector for that size (especially if you are set with a 1.0 gain screen and are planning to zoom). The only projectors I know of with the necessary lumens that don't force you into selecting the "garish" picture mode are extremely expensive 3 chip DLP models.

Also, an anamorphic lens does not "require" a curved screen unless you are dealing with a short throw ratio. If you share all the specs of your theater it might help us assist you.

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post #8 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Those are good points. The room is 25 feet deep, so with a viewing distance of 2.5X the screen height that only puts me 15 feet back. 3X the height we're still 7 feet in front of the rear wall. How big did you go before you pulled back, and why Ed? Josh - yeah I will need some brightness for sure but the room is going to be a zero-ambient light, all-black bat cave so I think it will work.

This is the kind of theater look I personally enjoy - where the screen takes up almost all the real estate on the front wall:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s298/sh/b2145fd7-3987-4985-996c-fb7431afafd5/314820772b2c7c3fe78ab50567c94c81

And another good look:

http://www.artemendoza.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/delectable-general-home-theater-ideas.jpg

And another:

http://www.futurehometheater.com/modern-home-theater.php

So that's the general proportioning which I dig. I'll post up room measurements later.

Also I did some test shooting of the projector I have (the 700 lumen Samsung Joe Kane 720p) onto the tan wall where I am thinking of the screen, at 170-200 inches (2.35) and it seemed pleasing to me. I'm not a light cannon guy and I don't play games or have sports parties - it really is just watching films in the dark alone or with one or two other people - not entertaining. So no need for a pj which can compete with room lights.

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post #9 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisreeves View Post

Josh - yeah I will need some brightness for sure but the room is going to be a zero-ambient light, all-black bat cave so I think it will work.

I have a bat cave, fully light controlled theater, and I still struggle with brightness on a screen much smaller than that. Don't forget that calibrated projectors never live up to the claimed brightness in the manufacturer specs, and the lamps dim as they age, rapidly during the break-in period of the first couple hundred hours.

A high gain screen can counter some of this problem, but at the expense of hot-spotting and visible screen texture.
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post #10 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 01:36 PM
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here is my screen build thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1447901/curved-screen-build

I went 128" wide and was going to go frameless but, just for grins and giggles, I framed it out with 3 1/2" velour covered framing and felt the extra resolution trumped the bigger size. So final width is 121" 2.35 scope.

To be fair, the kids' theater in the barn has a 140" wide 16:9 screen and it doesn't seem too big for the room. the picture quality necessarily suffers the bigger you go, but it definitely has more impact, if your room is large enough to handle it.

6 one way and half a dozen the other.
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post #11 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 01:38 PM
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I do run both projectors on high lamp mode fwiw.
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post #12 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Josh - yeah good points again. I considered the Dalite Hi-power but I really want to go AT - so I'm doing the Elite acoustipro 1080p2 or the acoustipro4K. They claim 1.0 gain even after the light loss from the weave.

What I may do is end up running a stack - Elite has a relatively inexpensive device I read about recently called the Airflex 5D: http://airflex5d.com.cn/product.html

In the mean time I can just run a smaller picture than the screen allows for and mask off the sides - but at least I'm set for the future.

Ed - that looks fantastic. I wish I had carpentry skills! and a barn - a barn sounds nice too. smile.gif

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post #13 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 03:32 PM
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So if you have a curved screen without an anamorphic lense it doesn't work? I thought the point of a curved screen was that it helped to better keep the entire image in focus since the distance to the sides of the screen is otherwise farther away than the distance to the middle of the screen from the projector. I've not researched this much yet, hence the reason I'm doing some searching on curved screens - as it seems to be a newer thing.

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post #14 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 05:09 PM
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So if you have a curved screen without an anamorphic lense it doesn't work? I thought the point of a curved screen was that it helped to better keep the entire image in focus since the distance to the sides of the screen is otherwise farther away than the distance to the middle of the screen from the projector. I've not researched this much yet, hence the reason I'm doing some searching on curved screens - as it seems to be a newer thing.
Nope.
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post #15 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

So if you have a curved screen without an anamorphic lense it doesn't work? I thought the point of a curved screen was that it helped to better keep the entire image in focus since the distance to the sides of the screen is otherwise farther away than the distance to the middle of the screen from the projector. I've not researched this much yet, hence the reason I'm doing some searching on curved screens - as it seems to be a newer thing.

The prime lens on the projector should be able to get a good focus (delineation) on the pixels towards the edge of the screen. If you can't this usually means one of two things; A.) your projector has cheap, small, optics. Or B.) You're using too much lens shift.

A curved screen should ONLY be used with an anamorphic lens. The main purpose of the curve is to offset pincushion.
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post #16 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 05:36 PM
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Thanks for this info!

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post #17 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 05:38 PM
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I only made a curved screen because I happened to have an anamorphic lens and wanted a scope CIH setup. That said, I don't see myself ever going back. I really love having the curved screen. That ever so slight "smilebox" effect that a curved screen gives is something that I've grown to love. That said, I did have a scope "screen" painted onto my wall and it was perfectly fine tbh. If I ever decide I want to wander away from a lens I'll have to turf the curved screen and make a flat one. Not something I'm looking forward to.

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post #18 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 05:53 PM
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A curved screen should ONLY be used with an anamorphic lens. The main purpose of the curve is to offset pincushion.
That is not correct. There are other reasons to use a curved screen, with light gain materials, although I do not generally prescribe one in a non-A-lens system.

That said, you do not want one for the sake of having one. And even with A-lens setups, the throw ratio plays a big part in whether or not to recommend one. Along with other room and system parameters unrelated to geometric compensation.
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post #19 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 06:02 PM
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Well, like I said, the MAIN selling point for most is to alleviate pincushion artifacts. In a home theater environment for those using an anamorphic lens that would be what almost everyone who owns a curved screen is using it for. There are other applications for them. Many commercial theaters are starting to use curved screens for other purposes.

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post #20 of 30 Old 03-24-2014, 07:34 PM
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In the mean time I can just run a smaller picture than the screen allows for and mask off the sides - but at least I'm set for the future.

that is good thinking. I'm sure the 4k resolution (and higher in the future) will be able to handle the size of screen you are thinking about.

Some of the theaters you referred to are gorgeous.
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post #21 of 30 Old 03-25-2014, 07:18 AM
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I've decided to try to "build for the future" to save $ on the endless-upgrade bug. This Lunette has a very tight weave that is supposed to be better for the 4K projector which I also do not own but surely will when they get to less than $5,000.

The idea is to buy one screen which will serve well for another 10 years (that's how long I got out of a 100" 16X9 Stewart Firehawk).

I'm in the same boat as you. I would like to go with a very large screen and prefer not going through the constant upgrades. Those are very hard to justify with the wife as well. I've got about a year before I need to be making these purchases. I'm hoping that we will have better information about the future of 4K etc. at that time. It seems a little risky to buy anything right now other than speakers, screens, chairs etc. due to the upcoming technology changes. I guess that is always the case in this industry. However, right now...it seems to be notched up a bit. 

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post #22 of 30 Old 03-25-2014, 08:38 AM
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As others have said a flat screen will be the safest choice as far as flexibility goes. Not that a curved screen doesn't look nice, but it locks you in to setting up the projector with a lens to accommodate it's shape. A flat screen can work with a properly setup lens and a zoomed projector. And it will be easier to get a new projector setup with down the road.

As far as the risky technology question, it's looking like HDMI 2.0 is making some pretty good inroads to be the interconnect for 4k. Not that something still couldn't come along and replace it, but right now it's in the lead. If that comes to pass we'll be in a situation where you'll be able to upgrade your components in phases. A 4k Blu Ray player set to output a 2k stream via HDMI which will be supported by the existing signal chain. Then a receiver or preamp with HDMI 2.0 which should again be able to pass the 2k signal onto the display. Finally a 4k display. Depending on your budget it may be years before a 4k projector is an affordable option. But as long as the industry keeps on the path it's on, it looks like we should be able to migrate to 4k in a phased approach.

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post #23 of 30 Old 07-30-2014, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by Seegs108 

A curved screen should ONLY be used with an anamorphic lens. The main purpose of the curve is to offset pincushion.

That is not correct. There are other reasons to use a curved screen, with light gain materials, although I do not generally prescribe one in a non-A-lens system.

That said, you do not want one for the sake of having one. And even with A-lens setups, the throw ratio plays a big part in whether or not to recommend one. Along with other room and system parameters unrelated to geometric compensation.
What about for a greater sense of depth? Every time I've seen a curved screen, be it a TV or front projection, the depth was excellent. Isn't more light reflected back at the viewer as well?
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post #24 of 30 Old 07-30-2014, 08:56 PM
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I have one in my personal system. And I have engineered them into customer's systems where they are appropriate. I love mine. But they are not always appropriate.

I find no increase in sense of depth. Even for a typical curvature of a 40' radius or so screen on a 56" tall size, you end up with a "bowl" depth of only around 3 or so inches. Compared to the typical corresponding ~144" viewing distance for that size screen, that depth vs view distance is nominal.

Light reflection characteristics will depend on the directionality (gain) of the material as well as the position of the projector. A curve can help in regard to light reflection properties and is one of the primary reasons I have one. For a typical 1.3 gain Stewart for example, I find the image to be more uniform from the outer seating positions vs. flat. As mentioned before however, this has a lot to do with the throw ratio, as well as the characteristics of the material.

Using one without an A-lens will introduce (otherwise typically unnecessary) pincushion distortion on no-lens aspects (16:9).
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post #25 of 30 Old 07-30-2014, 09:05 PM
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I have one in my personal system. And I have engineered them into customer's systems where they are appropriate. I love mine. But they are not always appropriate.

I find no increase in sense of depth. Even for a typical curvature of a 40' radius or so screen on a 56" tall size, you end up with a "bowl" depth of only around 3 or so inches. Compared to the typical corresponding ~144" viewing distance for that size screen, that depth vs view distance is nominal.

Light reflection characteristics will depend on the directionality (gain) of the material as well as the position of the projector. A curve can help in regard to light reflection properties and is one of the primary reasons I have one. For a typical 1.3 gain Stewart for example, I find the image to be more uniform from the outer seating positions vs. flat. As mentioned before however, this has a lot to do with the throw ratio, as well as the characteristics of the material.

Using one without an A-lens will introduce (otherwise typically unnecessary) pincushion distortion on no-lens aspects (16:9).
I just read curved screens can hot spot, yikes. If you have a short throw around 10', does a curved screen allow you to go with an entry level a-lens and get very little distortion? Also I read somewhere that very uniform screen materials like matte white aren't appropriate for curved screens because of back scatter or something like that. Do you find that true? Thanks

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post #26 of 30 Old 07-31-2014, 12:16 AM
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So you NEED an anamorphic lens for your curved screen.
No, there is another way. You can correct geometry distortion with a warping box. This image processor does the geometric correction digitally. I did it and it works great. Please take a look at my build thread. There are pictures which show how good it works.

In the home theater community the fear of something that is not "pixel perfect" is so strong that just no one tried it.
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post #27 of 30 Old 07-31-2014, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post
I just read curved screens can hot spot, yikes. If you have a short throw around 10', does a curved screen allow you to go with an entry level a-lens and get very little distortion? Also I read somewhere that very uniform screen materials like matte white aren't appropriate for curved screens because of back scatter or something like that. Do you find that true? Thanks
Throw distances, throw ratios, seating distances, screen materials, lens types, and PJ performance are all factors that have to be accounted for. Curved or not, but especially with curved.

The issue with unity gain materials is they have 180 degree viewing cones. So light scatter from a light spot the middle for example will "shine" 180 degrees left and right, affecting the area of the screens sides curving out to meet/intercept that light scatter. This would result in a reduction of intra-scene (ASNI) contrast ratio. Stewart recommended against unity gain and curves, but other mfgrs (who primarily sell no gain screens) say it doesn't make any difference. The science points to Stewart being correct, but to what degree it affects it on a low gain (e.g. 0.8 typical weave), I have not measured personally. I rarely spec curved low gain screens for my customers.
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post #28 of 30 Old 07-31-2014, 10:41 AM
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What GetGray said
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post #29 of 30 Old 07-31-2014, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FoLLgoTT View Post
No, there is another way. You can correct geometry distortion with a warping box. This image processor does the geometric correction digitally. I did it and it works great. Please take a look at my build thread. There are pictures which show how good it works.

In the home theater community the fear of something that is not "pixel perfect" is so strong that just no one tried it.
Thank for the heads up on the geobox, FoLLgoTT- I am going to give one of those units a try to reduce my pincushion on my flat 2.35:1 screen. My throw distance is less than ideal in my set up so want to reduce the pincushion (I was prepared to accept the level of pincushion to get a larger screen as 'bigger is better') and am looking forward to seeing the results.

The price appears reasonable enough in the scheme of things and the cost of my other components that even if I am not happy with the end results then I am not taking much of a hit on the wallet.
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post #30 of 30 Old 07-31-2014, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post
Throw distances, throw ratios, seating distances, screen materials, lens types, and PJ performance are all factors that have to be accounted for. Curved or not, but especially with curved.

The issue with unity gain materials is they have 180 degree viewing cones. So light scatter from a light spot the middle for example will "shine" 180 degrees left and right, affecting the area of the screens sides curving out to meet/intercept that light scatter. This would result in a reduction of intra-scene (ASNI) contrast ratio. Stewart recommended against unity gain and curves, but other mfgrs (who primarily sell no gain screens) say it doesn't make any difference. The science points to Stewart being correct, but to what degree it affects it on a low gain (e.g. 0.8 typical weave), I have not measured personally. I rarely spec curved low gain screens for my customers.
Thanks a lot!
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