Sony VPL-VW1100ES and anamorphic lens - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-21-2014, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony VPL-VW1100ES and anamorphic lens

Hi
Today I have an Projectiondesign AM1080 and panamorph lens that is 7 years old.
I am building a new Cinema since i moved and am looking for a 4k projektor.
I have a 2.35:1 curved screen and dont want to go back to 16:9 screen.


Do I need an anamorphic lens for the VPL-VW1100ES projector? Today i Think the Picture with my panamorph
lens is ok but it is not so Sharp and Bright as without so would be great not to need an lens at all
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post #2 of 16 Old 07-21-2014, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micke_ View Post
Hi
Today I have an Projectiondesign AM1080 and panamorph lens that is 7 years old.
I am building a new Cinema since i moved and am looking for a 4k projektor.
I have a 2.35:1 curved screen and dont want to go back to 16:9 screen.


Do I need an anamorphic lens for the VPL-VW1100ES projector? Today i Think the Picture with my panamorph
lens is ok but it is not so Sharp and Bright as without so would be great not to need an lens at all
You don´t need an anamorphic lens with the VW1100 as it has lensmemory, I have done this for over 2 years now and it works very well.

But I miss my setup with an anamorphic lens (Isco IIIL) so I just bought a Isco 1.25x DLP Cinema lens ( the best anamorphic lens ever is what I have read) and I am looking forward to test this with my VW1000 soo to be upgraded to VW1100 in a couple of weeks when the lens arrives. I think you need to upgrade your lens to make it work ok with the VW1100.

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Andreas

My Homecinema

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post #3 of 16 Old 07-21-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
You don´t need an anamorphic lens with the VW1100 as it has lensmemory, I have done this for over 2 years now and it works very well.

But I miss my setup with an anamorphic lens (Isco IIIL) so I just bought a Isco 1.25x DLP Cinema lens ( the best anamorphic lens ever is what I have read) and I am looking forward to test this with my VW1000 soo to be upgraded to VW1100 in a couple of weeks when the lens arrives. I think you need to upgrade your lens to make it work ok with the VW1100.

What is the downside not using an anamorphic lens with vw1100?
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post #4 of 16 Old 07-21-2014, 12:14 PM
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You loose about 30% light when zooming to a 2.35:1 aspect compared to the 17x9 on the VW1100, and this goes with all projectors. When using a anamorphic lens you loose almost nothing if you have a high quality lens. You can also switch much faster from 17x9 to 2.35:1 and I like it. The downside is you can loose some ansicontrast and there is scaling involved, but if you have a high quality lens like the Isco and scaler like the Lumagen this is not a problem and I only see the positives with high quality anamorphic lenses. The only negative I find annoying is the picushion these lenses make, but this is also corrected with a curved screen.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

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post #5 of 16 Old 07-21-2014, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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do you need a scaler like lumagen when using the vw1100?
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post #6 of 16 Old 07-21-2014, 04:56 PM
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If you have a Panamorph UH480 or DC1, both are fully capable of 4K performance. In fact, the DC1 is the only anamorphic lens specifically recommended by Sony for their 4K projectors.

Be curious to know which Panamorph lens you have - they make 4 different models. I would also be curious to know what your throw distance and ratio are. The reason I ask is that you say the image is sharper and brighter without the lens. You should not see a decrease in sharpness with the lens unless you are outside the recommended throw distance.

The brightness issue is very unusual - you should definitely see a brightness increase with the lens in place, at least compared to zooming. The only way the image with the lens should appear dimmer than without it is if you are comparing the 16:9 image brightness to the 2.40:1 image brightness. Of course, the 2.40:1 image brightness will be lower because you are asking the projector to fill 33% additional screen area.

As mentioned, the Sony has lens memory so a lens is not strictly needed, however, using the lens will provide a brighter image plus prevent the black bars from actually being projected onto the wall.

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post #7 of 16 Old 07-21-2014, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
I have the U380 lens and I guess the new DC1 is better. I can´t zoom with the projectiondesign AM1080 so I have only compared to the brigtness I get when watching 16:9 without the lens in front.


My screen is 400cm wide. So if I use the sony vw1100 without any lens the black bars will be projected outside the screen, doesn´t this mean you will get a better resolution with the vw1100 and a DC1 lens also?
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-22-2014, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micke_ View Post
do you need a scaler like lumagen when using the vw1100?
No, you don´t need a Lumagen for 1080p material, but if you want to strech 4K material you need to wait for the 4K in 4K out version from Lumagen when it comes later this year.
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Last edited by Andreas21; 07-22-2014 at 10:22 AM.
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post #9 of 16 Old 07-22-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
No, you don´t need a Lumagen for 1080p material, but if you want to strech 4K material you need to wait for the 4K in 4K out version form Lumagen when it comes later this year.
Correct. Right now there are no processors that will do the necessary vertical stretch with native 4K material, but Jim at Lumagen is working on it. Fortunately the projector will stretch 1080P no problem.

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post #10 of 16 Old 07-22-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micke_ View Post
Hi,
I have the U380 lens and I guess the new DC1 is better. I can´t zoom with the projectiondesign AM1080 so I have only compared to the brigtness I get when watching 16:9 without the lens in front.


My screen is 400cm wide. So if I use the sony vw1100 without any lens the black bars will be projected outside the screen, doesn´t this mean you will get a better resolution with the vw1100 and a DC1 lens also?
Yes, by using a lens you take advantage of the entire 3840 x 2160 pixel grid of the projector, vs. 3840 x 1620 when you zoom letterboxed material. While this doesn't result in any true additional picture detail, the projector has more pixels to "draw" the image (for a more solid looking picture) plus a brightness increase of about 20% (as reported to us by Sony).

The UH380 is still a really good lens, but it might be worth the upgrade to the DC1. The DC1 features sealed optics, better optical coatings, and an improved light path over the 380. The net result is better contrast and brightness, plus the sealed optics means that dust and grime can never get inside the casing.

The 380 should still be nice and sharp, though. Are you at the recommended 14.5 - 17.5 foot (4.4 - 5.4 meter) throw distance? If not, you will definitely see a softening of the pixels with the lens in place. You might see if there is any dust contamination inside the lens too.

Good luck!

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post #11 of 16 Old 07-23-2014, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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So the VW1100 can not stretch the 4K Picture to 2.35:1 format if i want to use an anamorphic lens? I also then will need an scaler? I have hade the projector at around 5meter the first time, but then moved so could only have it at 7m from the screen
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post #12 of 16 Old 07-23-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micke_ View Post
So the VW1100 can not stretch the 4K Picture to 2.35:1 format if i want to use an anamorphic lens? I also then will need an scaler? I have hade the projector at around 5meter the first time, but then moved so could only have it at 7m from the screen
It cannot stretch native 4K material. It can certainly stretch Blu-ray, HD streaming, broadcast, satellite, cable, etc. The only thing it can't stretch (or process at all, to my knowledge) it true 4K source material. Lumagen is working on a solution but it's not available yet. You can always use the lens for HD material and zoom for 4K material, at least temporarily.

If you are at 7 meters, you are way outside the stock focus point for the UH380 lens, which would explain why you are seeing a soft image. On the positive side, the UH380 - should you decide to keep it - can be retrofitted to be tuned for that specific throw distance. There is a cost to do this, but it is way less than the cost of a new lens. At 5 meters you are fine.

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post #13 of 16 Old 09-08-2014, 03:02 PM
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Hi,

How is the Performance with the CineVista lens, or is this lens not recommended with 4k projector?
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-08-2014, 04:16 PM
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One would not (should not) even consider that lens with a high end 4k projector IMO. You should move to a higher end lens to compliment the PJ. The very higherst performance lens for that PJ is the Isco 1.25 Cinema DLP lens. That's a professional lens used by commercial cinemas. $20k list price. I happen to have one in stock, on sale. I'd sell at a much more reasonable price. Prefer to sell it with a CineSlide, but it is big and heavy so it takes a heavy duty version of the CineSlide, which is build to order.

Last edited by GetGray; 09-08-2014 at 04:21 PM. Reason: Fix typos
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post #15 of 16 Old 09-08-2014, 04:29 PM
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Speaking for Panamorph, the CineVista will work with 4K, but with a high end projector like the VW1100ES it makes more sense to go with a high end lens. The lens GetGray suggested is an excellent choice, as is the Panamorph DC1 (which Sony specifically endorses for the VW1100).

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post #16 of 16 Old 09-09-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
It cannot stretch native 4K material. It can certainly stretch Blu-ray, HD streaming, broadcast, satellite, cable, etc. The only thing it can't stretch (or process at all, to my knowledge) it true 4K source material. Lumagen is working on a solution but it's not available yet. You can always use the lens for HD material and zoom for 4K material, at least temporarily.

If you are at 7 meters, you are way outside the stock focus point for the UH380 lens, which would explain why you are seeing a soft image. On the positive side, the UH380 - should you decide to keep it - can be retrofitted to be tuned for that specific throw distance. There is a cost to do this, but it is way less than the cost of a new lens. At 5 meters you are fine.
The best solution is to use a PC with a high quality scaler. Your best bet is to use MadVR if you want to do 4K vertical stretch. Most who have put Lumagen's 1080p --> 4K scaling up against MadVR's scaling prefer MadVR over what the Lumagen can do. An HTPC is the most practical and highest quality solution out there currently.
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