PT-AE1000u CIH? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 232 Old 12-15-2006, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Does the Panny PT-AE1000u have onboard vertical stretch for use with an anamorphic lens? Does it also have horizontal squeeze, so you don't have to move your lens out of the way? Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 232 Old 12-17-2006, 08:26 PM
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Good question. I would like to know too.

Has anyone found a link to the manual online? I've looked but can't find one.
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post #3 of 232 Old 12-17-2006, 08:44 PM
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post #4 of 232 Old 12-18-2006, 09:59 AM
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I want to know which of the new 1080p projectors can do vertical or horizontal stretch. I know the pearl and mitsu 5000 cant.
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post #5 of 232 Old 01-01-2007, 01:35 AM
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It appears from the manual that it will do a vertical stretch if you use an HDMI cable and feed it a 1080 or 720 signal. (See attached sections from pages 35 and 36 of the manual.) It doesn't look like the projector does horizontal compression (squeeze).

So, if you team this projector with a DVD player like the Oppo DV981-hd that does 1080 and 720 up-conversion, I would think it would work with an anamorphic lens without a separate scaler.

Can anyone confirm this?
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post #6 of 232 Old 01-01-2007, 07:49 AM
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What puzzles me about the reference in the manual is that it shows 16:9 source material being processed in some fashion by each of these modes. Shouldn't it *always* simply be passed-through?

It does not appear to do horizontal sqeeze for < 2.35 material, so you'd still have to move a lens in and out of the way, correct?

Gerald

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post #7 of 232 Old 01-01-2007, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmoore View Post

It does not appear to do horizontal sqeeze for < 2.35 material, so you'd still have to move a lens in and out of the way, correct?

yep, that is how it appears to me. I wish the manual was more clear on this whole aspect ratio bit. I don't want to buy a PJ without knowing for sure that it will work with my lens. This shouldn't be so difficult!
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post #8 of 232 Old 01-02-2007, 09:18 AM
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I have looked at the instruction manual and it appears to have exactly the same modes as my AX-100. This would mean that you would need a scaler, a moveable lens, or a lens with a passthrough mode to make the AE-1000 work in a CIH system when viewing non 2.35 material.

Assuming that the AE-1000 works the same way as the AX-100 native 16x9 material is passed through. All of the stretch and expand modes will work on HD material over both HDMI and Component.

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post #9 of 232 Old 01-02-2007, 09:57 AM
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I will be watching almost all the time only newer MOVIES in my HT. I care less about moving my lens out for non 2.35:1 format. So, is this the only 1080p projector under 5K than can do vertical stretch so I can obtain CIH nirvana with addition of Anamorphic lens?

I have RS1 on pre-order but hate to spend another 2K for a scaler just to have vertical stretch. I have 139" WIDE Dalite Cinema Contour 2.35:1 High Power screen on order. I will be able to intall my projector around 1 1/2 feet up from the center of the screen. Will Panasonic PJ be my best option? I would like to keep my CIH setup cost for projector, lens, scaler within 6K. One other option I wanted to consider is just get AX100 projector and wait for a LCOS/DLP 1080p projector with built-in vertical stretch under 5K.
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post #10 of 232 Old 01-10-2007, 11:41 AM
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kits - have you confirmed that the new JVC HD1(RS1?) will NOT vertically stretch HD content? I had heard it would - it also is using the Gennum so it's quite possible.

I'm also in the same boat - want a new 1080p projector but must have the vertical stretch for a constant height setup ( prismasonic H1000 ) with 1080 content.

I've seen the vertical fit on the Panny 1000 at a retailer - it does indeed vertically "zoom" an HD image for my needs, however I'm waiting to see what the new JVC and Epson 1080p units are like.

If I can avoid a scaler and get into HD with 2.35 that would be great. Too bad to hear the Pearl can't do it.

Right now, with my 720p PJ I can't zoom for HD content, so I've returned my HD-DVD player until I can - and then might be able to get a dual format player!

PS: Kits - can you PM me where you preordered your HD1/RS1 & $$$? If you feel like it, thanks!

Cheers.
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post #11 of 232 Old 01-10-2007, 08:29 PM
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Fishysan and Kits,

You might want to check with Projectorpoint.com, with the $400 cash rebate and the free 5 year extended warranty, it's pretty hard to beat.

I too am/was in the same boat, but since coming across the sale/deal that projector point is currently offering, my decision has been made. I ordered the Pearl not all that long ago, but it's going back for it won't do what I need/want it to do for a CIH setup. Well, not without the aid of an external processor.

After recently seeing what the PT-AE1000U can do, it put all my doubts to rest. It's defiantly not dim, blacks and shawdow detail is great, the picture is flat out gorgeous and the long throw makes almost any setup possible. Heck I can go on and on, but I won't. I don't want to come across as one who is trying to push this projector, but merely point out it's ALOT better then what some have made it out to be. It's defiantly probably the best way to go if one is wanting to do a CIH setup and keep the cost under 5k, or even 4k for that matter.

Just thought I'd offer my opinion and provide a little food for thought.

Sutter
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post #12 of 232 Old 01-10-2007, 10:04 PM
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Thanks for the thoughts Sutter.

I was thinking something similar.. The Panny would be a great upgrade I'm sure and will save me having to worry about processors and all that initially. My biggest concern with it was the brightness at max throw (23') as I'd like to do that for room positioning, best size through my prismasonic lens, and I can have it low on the back wall for my HighPower screen.

Unfortunately projectorpoint doesn't sell/ship to Canada.

Of course I'd love an RS1/HD1 one too - and now I've seen posts mentioning some firmware upgrade after release that will "enable" the stretch we need for CIH.
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post #13 of 232 Old 01-10-2007, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishysan View Post

Thanks for the thoughts Sutter.

I was thinking something similar.. The Panny would be a great upgrade I'm sure and will save me having to worry about processors and all that initially. My biggest concern with it was the brightness at max throw (23') as I'd like to do that for room positioning, best size through my prismasonic lens, and I can have it low on the back wall for my HighPower screen.

Unfortunately projectorpoint doesn't sell/ship to Canada.

Of course I'd love an RS1/HD1 one too - and now I've seen posts mentioning some firmware upgrade after release that will "enable" the stretch we need for CIH.

Yeah the RS1/HD1 would be nice. Despite all the praise it's been getting around here, I had to rule it out due to it's cost.

I was not aware of the AVS powerbuy on the unit, and henceforth missed out on it. Too bad for me, but it's alright, there's still a lot of great choices out there.

Sutter
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post #14 of 232 Old 01-10-2007, 10:37 PM
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Fishysan,

I forgot to mention, Projector Point does ship to Canada, at least they do according to their website.

From Projector Point's website.......

"U.S. Customers: Delivery to most addresses in the continental U.S. and Canada is via UPS.

International Customers: Due to the high rate of fraud on Internet orders placed from outside the United States and Canada, we do not ship to international addresses. We apologize for this inconvenience."

Sutter
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post #15 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 09:43 AM
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S.Cane, thanks for the information. My theater gets ready around the time RS1 ships. Since I pre-ordered it from AVS, 1000U price doesn't look tempting to me much compared to all the rave reviews JVC is getting. But the Vertical stretch does look too sweet to pass.

After some research and discussions I went with 138" WIDE 2.35 High Power Screen. Hoping it will help me zoom RS1 to fill the CIH screen without any scaler or lens and still look incredible.

Meanwhile, I am still looking around at all other possible options as I am not 100% sure if what I plan to do will look good after few 100 hours on my JVC.

One option that is so tempting to me at this stage is to get Pan 100AX and lens and enjoy that setup until bright 1080p comes with Vertical Stretch come down in prices. The other option is get a used pearl for <3K and zoom the picture. I saw Pearl setup and I just asked myself "Do I need anything to look better than this?" I thought it looked incredible but again, I never seen any 1080ps in action.

Not sure what I will do yet as my optional plan keeps changing every hour I visit this forum. All the raving about RS1 here is making it hard for me to leave that projector.
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post #16 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kits View Post

One option that is so tempting to me at this stage is to get Pan 100AX and lens and enjoy that setup until bright 1080p comes with Vertical Stretch come down in prices. The other option is get a used pearl for <3K and zoom the picture. I saw Pearl setup and I just asked myself "Do I need anything to look better than this?" I thought it looked incredible but again, I never seen any 1080ps in action.

Kits,

Funny you should say that, I too have been considering going with Panny AX100 as well. There's a lot of debate as to how much better a 1080p unit is, and some of the points made are valid ones at that. However, I've been in the game long enough to know that resolution isn't everything. Important, yes, but in my opinion it's the sum of the parts that equals the whole. I feel brightness and contrast is just as important. Some will agree, some will disagree, but it is of my opinion that one could get as good of a picture out the AX100 due to it's much higher lumans.

It's a debatable issue though, and a debate I usually stay out of. Everybody has their own opinions regarding the matter, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion, so it's all good.

Although I have yet to make a final decision, I very well may end up going with AX100 and then make the upgrade to a 1080p projector within the next 1-2 years. By then the prices will be more along the lines of what I'd prefer to pay, and more then likely there will also be brighter 1080p projectors available.

Sutter
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post #17 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 12:48 PM
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Sutter thanks! It was late and I read "international customers" as excluding Canada. Good to know, I'll revisit them!

Also, Sutter, what are your thoughts on the brightness loss at maximum throw on the Panny 1000? I'd use it at MAX throw for my setup, which is ideal for room and screen placement, and also best for the prismasonic lens.

The nice thing about the RS1/HD1 is that throw doesn't affect brightness with their lens. That's very interesting. It will be 2000$ more than the Panny though, and if they don't update the firmware to do vertical scaling/stretch of HD content...... I'll have to buy a processor.

Kits - I'll take your place on the pre-order if you want. Looks like our screens are almost similar size, I went 54" tall, by 127" wide for 2.35 with HighPower and the Permwall frame (make it fancier after).

Yeah too much information doesn't help hey? I want info about the new Epson 1080p too though!!! The Panny1000, Pearl, RS1/HS1, and the Epson are the ones I want to consider. Of course waiting until late March to get an RS1 will suck. I want it NOW!!!

Cheers.
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post #18 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 12:53 PM
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Oh Kits - can you do me a big favor and PM me the RS1 pre-order price? Though maybe I don't want to know.. hehe :P Thanks.
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post #19 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishysan View Post

Sutter thanks! It was late and I read "international customers" as excluding Canada. Good to know, I'll revisit them!

Also, Sutter, what are your thoughts on the brightness loss at maximum throw on the Panny 1000? I'd use it at MAX throw for my setup, which is ideal for room and screen placement, and also best for the prismasonic lens.

Hello Fishysan,

The loss of brightness at maximum throw depends on a few different factors, imo.

1. The type of screen you're using.

2. The color of your room. Is it light, or is it dark.

Personally I don't find it too bad in my room. I have it installed about 19' back in a totally black room. I will admit though, it could be better. But I find the fault is with my screen. If one is using a Higher gain screen like the Vutec SilverStar or Da-Lite High Power, I don't believe it'd be much of an issue. But then again it's very subjective, for it depends on just how bright you prefer your picture.

Right now I'm currently testing/reviewing the Panny PT-AE1000U, the Sony Pearl, and the Epson Powerlite Pro Cinema. I think I'm also going to include the Panny PT-AX100U to the list as well, for as I was explaining to kits, it might just be the better route to take for those who...

A. Want to do a CIH setup

and

B. Want to go with a really large screen without sacrificing much in the way of brightness.

To me this a very important issue. May not be with everybody, but it is to me. I like a really nice bright picture, for in my opinion I find it really provides and brings out the pop/wow factor when viewing.

Sutter
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post #20 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 01:17 PM
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And the best thing about AX100 is Costco sells it :-)
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post #21 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
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And the best thing about AX100 is Costco sells it :-)

Amen to that Kits, that's very true!

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post #22 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 01:54 PM
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Hey ya Sutter;

I have a HighPower 54" high x 127" wide 2.35 screen, and I'd put the Panny 1000 at 22 ft from the screen. The room is dark & a theater (basement) room.

I currently have an Epson Cinema 500 - and of course getting the HP helped it a LOT, but it's not bright either, and aging in terms of Contrast, resolution (720p), and brightness.

What Epson are you evaluating now? Not the 1080p unit I guess.

What lens do you two have? I have the Prismasonic H1000 .. no ISCO III unfortunately! hehe
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post #23 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 02:17 PM
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Fishysan,

Right now I've got the Prismasonic H-700. I've been contemplating whether or not I want to upgrade to Prismasonic H-1400. I might, but if I do it won't be for a little while yet. Probably May time frame, if I do.

As for the Epson, I had planned on testing/reviewing their new Powerlite Pro Cinema 1080, but I'm not sure if I'll have the time to throw that one into the mix.

Although it's too early in the testing process to come to any solid conclusions, I can say so far that my feelings regarding the AX100 stands true.

The biggest problem that I've noticed with all the 1080p projectors that I'm testing/reviewing lies with brightness. I haven't found any of these projectors to be dim. Some people might, but I haven't found that to be the case. However, that being said, they defiantly are not light cannons either.

I'll be able to comment more once all the testing has been completed, but at this point, I'd say these 1080p projectors are better suited for people who do not plan on going with anything bigger then a 110" screen. If one is going to go with anything larger then a 110" screen, then I personally feel a high gain screen is a must have. Again, this only my opinion based on my own likings.

Sutter
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post #24 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 02:27 PM
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so has anyone actually taken the PT-AE1000u and done a vertical stretch with the projector, added on an anamorphic lens and gotten the correct 235:1 ratio? If so, how's it look?

just a little confused from reading this thread if anybody actually did this or just speculated...
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post #25 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jplant View Post

so has anyone actually taken the PT-AE1000u and done a vertical stretch with the projector, added on an anamorphic lens and gotten the correct 235:1 ratio? If so, how's it look?

just a little confused from reading this thread if anybody actually did this or just speculated...

I'd like to hear from someone who has actually seen it work too! ... Anyone???
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post #26 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

I'd like to hear from someone who has actually seen it work too! ... Anyone???

Gents,

I have the Panny PT-AE1000U in my possession along with the Sony Pearl. Right now I've got the two units set up and over the weekend I'll be calibrating them. After that, I'll be testing these puppies out and reveiwing them both. I'll report back with info you seek, but knowing what I know about the Panny 1000U, I'm almost positive that yes it does.

Sutter
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post #27 of 232 Old 01-11-2007, 09:10 PM
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At a local shop where I had a quick glimpse at a Panny 1000 I confirmed, with 1080i input, that it would do the vertical stretch needed for CH. They didn't have a lens or such, but I'm quite famliar with the effect/need as I do it now with my 720p unit. I also checked the left/right cropping and it was fine, in fact I think there was less overscan. I don't remember top & bottom overscan though once stretched.

Sutter - good to hear re brightness - I do have a High Power Screen, and I'll be placing the PJ to be well into the 2.x gain so I should be OK then with 110" diag for 16x9 which then stretches to 54"x127" wide for 2.35.

Looking forward to your thoughts from the 1000 and the Pearl after the weekend.
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post #28 of 232 Old 01-13-2007, 07:57 PM
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The run down, so far.

As I've mentioned previously, in search of my next upgraded, I purchased the Panasonic PT-AE1000U, the Sony Pearl, and I recently picked up the Panasonic PT-AX100U as well.

Note: I am not a professional reviewer and usually don't write reviews at all. I'm also not what one would call a big time tweaker, either. When I sit down to watch a movie, that's what I want to do, watch and enjoy the film, not sit there and try to find every little flaw that might rear it's ugly head. So you won't find a lot of readings and measurments in my reviews, but mainly observations. I'm doing this to find the best projector for myself and help some of you along the way, who are also considering these projectors.

Ok, so let's get to it. I'll start with what's been done and observed up to this point and I'll start with the two 1080p projectors being reviewed here, the Panny AE-1000U and the Sony Pearl.

Out of the box I found the preformance of the AE1000U to be outstanding. I didn't have to hardly make any adjustment at all, other then a few minor tweaks to the contrast and brightness. Other then those few things, that was about it. I was glad to see that I didn't need to change the RGB balance. In fact, with the level of accuracy that this projector possess, it is truly one of the rare and few projector that I've come across that really doesn't require a basic calibration. Now that being said, of course a calibration of any kind will further improve performance, but it really looked good before I did any calibration.

The Pearl required a little more work. Out of the box, it's not bad, but it's not perfect either. I had to make a few more adjustments then what I did with AE1000U, but nothing dramatic and nothing that would cause one to want to steer away from the Pearl. The Pearl however is one that will benefit greatly from a proper calibration. How basic or advance you want to go with the calibration is entirely up to you.

I should also point out that AE1000U as well as the Pearl is a God send in terms of calibrating. Meaning you can tweak the ever living daylights out of these pupppies. The options are almost limitless. Note I said almost limitless, not limitless.

Once I finished with the calibration of both units, the picture coming from both projectors were fantastic and the viewing/reviewing began. I viewed everything from SD programing to HD programing, to SD-DVD, and HD-DVD/BD.

First off, you ain't going to go wrong with either of these projectors. They are both breath taking and will provide you with a truly outstanding picture. I've heard time and time and time again, how some claim that the Pearl and Panasonic produces what they say is a "Soft" picture. My responce to that, horse poop! Listen, to me and in my opinion you've got two types of images. You got what I call a digital type image, and then you got a film like image. A film like image is always going to appear what many label as "Soft" to those who favor a more digital type image. It's like ice cream gentlemen, you got to wet your tounge and pick your flavor. I understand that opinions vary. I also understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion. That said I've also come to the conclusion after many, many, years of being in this hobby that people tend to form their own definition to various terms. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does tend to cause a lot of confusion nonetheless.

Now I have seen many "Soft" pictures over the years and in my opinion neither the AE1000U or the Pearl puts off a soft image. What they both do is produce a very "Smooth" picture and there is a difference between the two. Meaning that there is a difference between a soft picture and a smooth picture, although they share alot of similar characteristics, therefore making it somewhat easy to get the two confused. However, it's all semantics in some form or another. What these projectors give you is a picture more true to film, or in other words a film like image. As I previously mentioned, when you start talking about a film like image, some call this "Soft" other's call it "Smooth", so which is it, really? Well, that answer is almost impossible to answer, for preferences vary. We all see things differently, just as we all hear things differently. Nevertheless, the picture will not disappoint you in anyway if you are one who likes a more film like presentation. I sincerely hope that I've at least helped to shed a little light on that issue, because it is confusing as hell. At least it can be.

Alright, now let's get down to some specifics. I'll start with Black levels, since that seems to be a biggie with most people. I know it is for me anyways.

The Black levels on both projectors, I found to be great, with the Pearl having a bit of an edge. Overall, I consider the PT-AE1000U to be very good in terms of black levels, and one of the best in terms of revealing shadow details. However, the Pearl does seem to produce a little darker and richer black levels between the two and although the shadow detail on the Pearl is very good, I didn't find it to be quite on the same level as the AE1000U.

In terms of the sharpness and clarity in HD 1080p, I found the AE1000U delivered the sharpest images of the two, and it defiantly beat out the Pearl with standard definition material. However the Pearl does seem to beat out the AE1000U in terms of contrast, though it does so at the expense of lumen output. At least it did to my eyes.

So what's the verdict? Which do I buy? Which do you recommend? What's the deal breaker?

They both are really excellent units. The deal breaker for most of us here is whether or not these projectors do vertical stretch to allow for a CIH setup, and I've got some good and bad news. The bad news, the Pearl does not. The good news, both Panasonic's, the PT-AE1000U as well as the PT-AX100U does.

Now if you're not interested in doing a CIH setup, well then it really comes down to a matter of nit picking and personal preferences. Either way, whichever you choose, you won't be making a bad choice.

This now brings me to the projector that I haven't talked much about up to this point, and that's the Panasonic PT-AX100U. Well, I've got more then just a few things to say about this little gem.

To say that I was impressed by the preformance of the AX100U would be a major understatement. What a suprise this projector turned out to be. I wasn't really expecting much from the AX100U. I had my mind set on jumping up to a 1080p, therefore I just wasn't expecting the AX100U to be able to hold it's own with the big boys. Damn was I ever wrong.

First of all, I like a bright picture, and this projector is very bright. I personally don't consider the AE1000U or the Pearl dim by any means, but they certainly are not light cannons. On the other hand, when comparing the AE1000U and the Pearl to the AX100U, they do indeed prove themselves to be quite dim. There's quite a big difference due to the much higher lumans that the AX100U has.

Second, I know this isn't going to sit well with some people, but the fact of the matter is, resolution isn't everything. I know there are some people out there who seem to think that it is, but it is not. The truth of the matter is it isn't any one specific thing. It's the sum of the parts that equals the whole, and this proves itself true in the AX100U.

There has been some here who have reported having some problems with the AX100U, but I did not experience any of the problems that have been reported. The AX100U preformed flawlessly and it did so with flying colors.

I'll be reporting more on all three of these units over the next few days. As of right now, my advice would be choose your screen wisely. If you plan on going with a screen size of 110" or smaller, then any screen that you prefer should serve you well. If however you plan on going with a screen that is greater then 110" and you plan on going with either the AE1000U or Sony Pearl, then a high gain screen is a must have in my opinion, due to the lower lumens that these 1080p projectors posses.

I know there's things that I did not cover, but there's more to come. I just wanted to give you all a run down of what I've observed, discovered and found so far.

Sutter
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post #29 of 232 Old 01-13-2007, 10:10 PM
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S.Cane, that was excellent comparision and lot of information for me as I WILL be doing CIH and that too BIG screen. 13' wide High Power. All current 1080p'a maybe good when the bulb is fairly new. I doubt even if the HIgh Power will hold enough brightness as the bulb gets to half it's life.

AX100 to be is looking more like my next projector now. I can enjoy it probably until 1080ps fall down to half the price in about an year with BETTER lumens for my screen.
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post #30 of 232 Old 01-13-2007, 10:15 PM
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Thanks for the great start on your reviews. I'm really looking forward to seeing your follow-ups.

Two questions:

1) Are you using an anamorphic lens with the AE1000U or the AX100U? if so, which lens are you using and which projector do you prefer for 2.35:1?

2) When you say a 110" screen are you referring to a 16:9 screen or a 2.35:1 screen and are you referring to the diagonal measurement or the width measurement?

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