To 4K or Not to 4K with Josh Kairoff - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 06-18-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Video-industry consultant Josh Kairoff wears a fantastic suit and tie covered in test patterns as he talks about his recent trip to Orlando, FL, for the annual InfoComm trade show. Topics include new 1.9mm LED direct-view displays, large LCD panels supplanting projection systems, the importance of a balanced systems approach to video with an eye toward the specific application, the convergence of AV and IT, what's important and what's not about 4K, HDBaseT, wireless AV, answers to chat-room questions, and more.

 

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post #2 of 12 Old 06-18-2013, 01:59 PM
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Awesome! Love these podcasts, keep up the great work Scott!
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post #3 of 12 Old 06-19-2013, 11:35 AM
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Great podcast...keep up the good work
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post #4 of 12 Old 06-19-2013, 02:21 PM
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Good podcast. Another fun part of these is trying to figure out what is on the shelf behind Mr Wilkinson along with the lava lamp and remote biggrin.gif
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post #5 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Good podcast. Another fun part of these is trying to figure out what is on the shelf behind Mr Wilkinson along with the lava lamp and remote biggrin.gif


Thanks! Now that I use a high-def webcam, you should be able to see more detail back there. Over my right shoulder are two unusual clocks; can you figure out how to read them?


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post #6 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 01:40 PM
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A couple of good points were bought up,like why do we need more than 2160p60 instead of 2160p24. Also, more bit rate with 4k is something good, but can we get more with the current hdmi?
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post #7 of 12 Old 06-20-2013, 02:34 PM
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Nice podcast Scott.

Josh made a statement that I've heard others say - that the eye doesn't see resolution, but contrast and motion, so more pixels don't help, especially with motion. This is not an accurate statement for me. I looked at the Sony 4k TV at Frys, and the extra resolution has a profound impact, both in still image and most definitely in motion. Yes, contrast has a major impact too, but resolution - or shall we say a more fine grid on the canvas makes a huge difference. Try drawing something on microsoft paint, then go to a fine grid in Adobe illustrator.
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post #8 of 12 Old 06-22-2013, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by OShag View Post

Nice podcast Scott.

Josh made a statement that I've heard others say - that the eye doesn't see resolution, but contrast and motion, so more pixels don't help, especially with motion. This is not an accurate statement for me. I looked at the Sony 4k TV at Frys, and the extra resolution has a profound impact, both in still image and most definitely in motion. Yes, contrast has a major impact too, but resolution - or shall we say a more fine grid on the canvas makes a huge difference. Try drawing something on microsoft paint, then go to a fine grid in Adobe illustrator.

How the eye sees is a matter of a few items and your post was a pretty good point. One of the items missed is "edge adjacency" which fools the eye into thinking things are sharper than they really are. - This is similar to just slightly upping the contrast.

I think my biggest beef with the 4k venue is that both DVD and Blu Ray continue to suffer on how well the original films are "transferred" over. Some are thoughtful transfers with some adjustments made and others are no more than "dumps" off originals, 2nd level quality copies and even video copies. If all the greedy studios and such can't even offer a standard for quality what makes one think 4k will be any better? Imagine buying 4k film only to find it is nothing more than say an up-scaled copy transfer made from a DVD or Blu Ray level movie. Yeah, it would suck and there is nothing we can do about that because the studios don't care other than squeezing a few more coins out of our pockets.
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post #9 of 12 Old 06-22-2013, 03:32 PM
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A good pc monitor usually has the highest resolution for video content and especially gaming. Its also great for web browsing and drawings. A 4ktv can be a good benefit for those owners of 1080p tvs in the next 10 years
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post #10 of 12 Old 06-23-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OShag View Post

Nice podcast Scott.

Josh made a statement that I've heard others say - that the eye doesn't see resolution, but contrast and motion, so more pixels don't help, especially with motion. This is not an accurate statement for me. I looked at the Sony 4k TV at Frys, and the extra resolution has a profound impact, both in still image and most definitely in motion. Yes, contrast has a major impact too, but resolution - or shall we say a more fine grid on the canvas makes a huge difference. Try drawing something on microsoft paint, then go to a fine grid in Adobe illustrator.


Profound impact ? Really.

I saw the Sony sitting side by side with a 1080P variant with the same content on it and was unimpressed unless I got within a couple feet.

You gonna sit that close ?

Good luck getting actual 4k content.

With the state of content and what it is going to take to get "on demand" programming
that we know we all want 4k is a marketing gimmick.

Follow along little sheep and give me your money........

Don't forget to ask what you can actually watch in native 4k while you are overpaying............
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post #11 of 12 Old 06-24-2013, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post


Thanks! Now that I use a high-def webcam, you should be able to see more detail back there. Over my right shoulder are two unusual clocks; can you figure out how to read them?



I can't see them they well but they look interesting. That's my admittance that I have no clue how to read those clocks biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 12 Old 06-25-2013, 07:31 AM
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Well,

My opinion on 4k??? I saw the Sony 4k set at Frys on the 28th Frys Anniversary in their theater room. A 55"-60"-ish TV. As said before, I had to get close to it in order to start seeing the detail differences. What this means? 4k content is likely only going to be useful on VERY LARGE SCREENS, like projection-based setups and 90"+ LCDs. In the 55"-65" range, 4k just doesn't seem to hold enough to detail to really move someone to spend thousands of extra dollars. I was really looking forward to this but found the comparison in my current TV size range, unimpressive.

Next, I suspect that the video compression methods for H265, while more advanced, are taking even more dramatic compression shortcuts than the H264 codec. Sacrificing further detail that should be apparent at 4k in favor of lowering bitrate. At times watching the 4k at Frys, there seemed to be occasional good moments and then occasional moments where the quality 'improvement' just wasn't there. 4k needs more bitrate IMO and it needs a VERY large screen to see the detail that 4k is supposed to have (which is commercial-theater quality).
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