Chat Room Q&A - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 07-07-2014, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Chat Room Q&A



Scott Wilkinson and Mark Henninger spend a pleasant hour answering questions from the chat room about the demise of plasma, DSD and high-res audio, how to prevent and erase image retention on a plasma, Dolby Atmos in the home, how to improve a TV's internal sound, curved versus flat projection screens, low-cost surround-sound systems, cost-no-object movie systems, the best portable high-res audio players, our dream systems, and much more.

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post #2 of 13 Old 07-08-2014, 10:32 AM
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For us trying to use avsforum with an ipad this is a problem... The avsforum website does not allow control of the video since the active topics and an ad are always displayed over the video. You cannot use the controls to expand full screen, etc because something is always on top. This is not the first video with this problem, would be nice if it got fixed. Thanks for the videos, been enjoying them!
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post #3 of 13 Old 07-08-2014, 10:57 AM
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This is a great podcast! Thanks, Scott and Mark.
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post #4 of 13 Old 07-08-2014, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by freeman4 View Post
This is a great podcast! Thanks, Scott and Mark.
Thank you too. I had a really great time on the show and could have kept going for hours.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #5 of 13 Old 07-08-2014, 11:11 AM
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Fantastic episode, Scott and Mark! Thanks.

Best regards,
Lloyd C.

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post #6 of 13 Old 07-08-2014, 04:13 PM
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Scott and Mark show at CEDIA?
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post #7 of 13 Old 07-08-2014, 04:33 PM
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In response to the chat room question about active ambient noise cancellation for use with a speaker system as opposed to headphones, I don't think such a device currently exists. There are certainly white noise devices that can be used to drown out ambient noise, but those would negatively impact your listening experience moreso than simply turning up to the volume on the sound system to hopefully accomplish the same goal. I did see a couple articles about a device called Sono (not Sonos), that attaches to a window and uses a microphone to detect ambient noise so that it can actively cancel it out (using the window pane as a speaker) and that you can even selectively filter some noises out while allowing others to pass, but this device is currently only in the concept and initial prototype phase. Even if it did exist, I doubt that it would be able to completely cancel out the noise of your window AC unit while not impacting the audio from your sound system. The filters would have to be extremely precise with controls that allow you to easily distinguish between what is noise and what is not.

This is a good question though, and I would be surprised if AVR manufacturers are not putting research into this problem. It seems that if it was possible to do what you want, the sound system would be the best device to do it since it more directly connected to the audio that you want versus the noise that you don't want and already has the speakers available to perhaps cancel out the noise.

Last edited by HockeyoAJB; 07-08-2014 at 04:38 PM.
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post #8 of 13 Old 07-08-2014, 04:43 PM
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In response to the chat room question about active ambient noise cancellation for use with a speaker system as opposed to headphones, I don't think such a device currently exists. There are certainly white noise devices that can be used to drown out ambient noise, but those would negatively impact your listening experience moreso than simply turning up to the volume on the sound system to hopefully accomplish the same goal. I did see a couple articles about a device called Sono (not Sonos), that attaches to a window and uses a microphone to detect ambient noise so that it can actively cancel it out (using the window pane as a speaker) and that you can even selectively filter some noises out while allowing others to pass, but this device is currently only in the concept and initial prototype phase. Even if it did exist, I doubt that it would be able to completely cancel out the noise of your window AC unit while not impacting the audio from your sound system. The filters would have to be extremely precise with controls that allow you to easily distinguish between what is noise and what is not.
The original article that piqued my interest can be found here: High-tech system lets restaurant set noise level - SFGate.com

Gizmodo covered it: New Noise-Cancelling Technology for Restaurants Uses 123 Speakers to Serve Up Peaceful Meals

As I understand it, the market is big enough, and the applications varied enough, that it is an active area of research. Bose sells a system for automotive cabin open-air active noise cancellation.
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post #9 of 13 Old 07-09-2014, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The original article that piqued my interest can be found here: High-tech system lets restaurant set noise level - SFGate.com

Gizmodo covered it: New Noise-Cancelling Technology for Restaurants Uses 123 Speakers to Serve Up Peaceful Meals

As I understand it, the market is big enough, and the applications varied enough, that it is an active area of research. Bose sells a system for automotive cabin open-air active noise cancellation.
Perhaps the articles don't do a good job of explaining it, but it sounds like they aren't actually using the speakers and mics to produce active noise cancellation. The way it is described, they are using the passive treatments to greatly reduce the noise and then using the speakers to add it back in at whatever level they deem appropriate, since they don't actually want dead silence.
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post #10 of 13 Old 07-09-2014, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
Perhaps the articles don't do a good job of explaining it, but it sounds like they aren't actually using the speakers and mics to produce active noise cancellation. The way it is described, they are using the passive treatments to greatly reduce the noise and then using the speakers to add it back in at whatever level they deem appropriate, since they don't actually want dead silence.
You are right, that is how the system is implemented. From a Meyer Sound FAQ:

Q: Is Constellation at Comal using active noise cancellation to reduce the level of unwanted sounds?
Active noise cancellation shows promise from experiments done at Meyer Sound, however it is not implemented at Comal at this time. Constellation, Libra, and other acoustic materials are used together at Comal to give the restaurant management the flexibility to absorb reverberation and enhance the acoustics of the space. Each installation has different requirements and Meyer Sound is pursuing a patent for these methods.


Bose appears to be the leader in the field of active noise cancellation in 3D space, plenty of articles out there about its application in cars.

Here's something... http://www.acousticontrol.com/silent...reduction.html Thanks for prodding me to dig deeper and look into the state of the technology. From what I gather, ANC is sometimes used in HVAC systems to reduce fan noise.

Here's an example with a range hood—not that different from a window AC IMO. http://www.silentium.com/products-an...s/cooker-hoods


Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com

Last edited by imagic; 07-09-2014 at 06:27 AM.
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post #11 of 13 Old 07-09-2014, 07:41 AM
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Bose appears to be the leader in the field of active noise cancellation in 3D space, plenty of articles out there about its application in cars.
Now that I think back on it, from 1998 thru 2003 I worked as a drafter/designer for a company called Universal Dynamics Inc. in Woodbridge, VA, which makes equipment used in the plastics processing industry. At the time, Una-Dyn was owned by Mann+Hummel, a fairly large corporation based in Germany. I recall reading a company newsletter put out by Mann+Hummel which had an article about the work of one of our sister companies in the field of automotive noise filtration. While different in execution, the basic purpose and considerations were very similar to the restaurant scenario. Apparently, the ability to reduce engine noise had gotten so good that, even 12 years ago, they were beginning to implement artificial engine noise (or filtering out the undesirable noise and reintroducing the desirable noise directly to the cabin) since hearing your engine rev is an integral part of enjoying a high performance automobile. At the time, I think they were looking to get their "filters" installed in a few different German automotive manufacturers' vehicles.

I don't specifically remember if they used active noise cancellation back then, but Googling it produced a more recent news release describing how their improved technology is being used now, specifically in hybrid vehicles...
https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/mann-...ail/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=501&cHash=cd6b199007943c606fc1167de20ec04f

PS. Hmm. For some reason the link doesn't work. Try copy pasting the whole thing into the address bar. If that doesn't work, Google "Mann+Hummel noise filter" and it should be your first result.
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post #12 of 13 Old 07-09-2014, 07:32 PM
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Just got to listen to the Q&A show today while at work... really look forward to more of this format in the future.

I am excited for tomorrows HTGeeks show with Andrew Jones.
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post #13 of 13 Old 07-11-2014, 03:57 PM
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Scott, I would like to point something out.

In my opinion, the illusion of live music has nothing to do with the Wilsons. It is a phoenomenon that happened to me too in several occasions. In my old home, I used to listen to music in the basement. However it the volume was high enough, listening from the first floor, through the stairs, a couple of times I had the perfect illusione that James Taylor was in my home (-80s Pioneer amp and JBL speakers). In my friend's home recording studio, more than once I had the illusion that a sax player was playing (it was a sax VST) when I was in another room.

In both instances I knew that there were no musicians playing.

I think is a pretty common phoenomenon.
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