September 22 Show - The founders of the AVS Forum, David Bott and Alan Gouger - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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September 22, 2005 - Podcast #29
Listen Now!

Our email address is hdtvpodcast@mac.com

Today's show:
In today's episode, we cover some news from the HDTV and Home Theater world and talk to the founders of the AVS Forum, David Bott and Alan Gouger.

About AVS Forum:
AVS Forum is the place to go for chat on just about anything home theater related. From industry professionals to end users, you will find someone there who can help out if you have a question or to just chat with you about your favorite home theater topics.


Origianlly called 'AV Science Q&A', the AVS Forum was founded way back in 1995. Those were the good old days, when CRT was really the only front display option around. As time passed and the consumer electronics industry boomed, founder David Bott saw the need the site could fill and opened up AVS Forum in 1999 as you see it today. Bott, along with co-founder Alan Gouger, have adapted and changed the site to keep pace with the ever-evolving world of home theater. Alan and David have formed a lasting friendship over the years, and share a passion and excitment for audio/visual electronics and the home theater industry. "It is like we think the same in not only our passion for home theater, but how we care to treat others." said David. They try their best to make the AVS Forum site reflect their own passions and commitment.

Listen to the show for insights into the world of HDTV and Home Theater from these two industry insiders.
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post #2 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 03:42 PM
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Nice job guys. Your enthusiasm is evident:)
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post #3 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 03:48 PM
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Thank you. The passion is still their. And I learned something. I talk too fast. :)

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


DISCLAIMER: All spelling and grammatical errors done on purpose for the proofreadingly challenged...:)

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post #4 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 05:39 PM
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Since this is a podcast I assume it is ok if I broadcast this on Satellite Guys Radio?

Scott
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post #5 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Thank you. The passion is still their. And I learned something. I talk too fast.
These days they electronically remove people's pauses anyway, to get more stuff in the same amount of time. So you are already ready for modern times.

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post #6 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 07:01 PM
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"I assume it is ok if I broadcast this on Satellite Guys Radio"

Seeing it is an AVS Forum show...not sure how that goes into "Satellite Guys Radio". I guess we would need more information as to the intent.

Thanks

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


DISCLAIMER: All spelling and grammatical errors done on purpose for the proofreadingly challenged...:)

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post #7 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 07:06 PM
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Dean...Good point. I feel better now. :) But really...I get so excited about the topic I just talk, talk, talk. I have been told at meetings that I need to slow down for they can not keep up with the notes with the ideas. :)

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


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post #8 of 33 Old 09-22-2005, 09:29 PM
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Oh wow, David you actually sound pretty similar to Scott. Kinda scarry :)
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post #9 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 07:23 AM
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I really enjoyed episode #29 of the HDTV podcast. After listening to the show, something occurred to me.

If a BIG group of consumers, say the 170,000 odd members of AVS forum were to speak with a unified voice in favor of a single Hi-Def DVD format, perhaps we could help to head off the pointless format war.

Our collective wish to have a single format is much stronger than our individual opinions on the lesser argument over whether the Blu-Ray or HD DVD format is better.

To use recent presidential elections as an example, for the business of the country to go forward, it was better for us to accept one person as president than to endlessly squabble over who should have won. (I know, this is a dangerous example and I happen to have backed the 'loser' twice, but it makes the point)

We could set up a 'winner takes all' vote on AVS forum. The only requirement for voting would be to pledge that whatever the outcome, your support and WALLET, would go to the winner, no matter what. Those who couldn't accept the outcome, even if there favorite lost, should not vote.

Given the technology differences, a unified format seems impossible.

However, if the manufacturers and movie studios knew that the 170,000 consumers who are members of AVS forum were committed to a single format and were planning on buying ONLY that format, perhaps the battle could be over without a single 'shot' being fired by consumers. This is particularly important since the 'bullets' will be cash coming out of OUR wallets.
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post #10 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 07:35 AM
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Greetings...

Glad you enjoyed the show. We have been pushing this for sometime now but they only seem to care about what "they" want. In any case you can see with the below link, we are all trying...

http://www.dvdsite.org/

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


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post #11 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 09:06 AM
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Sounds like we need to organize the '170,000 AV Enthusiast March.'

But, seriously, it's all about content. If the movies I want to watch are only on Blu-Ray, I'll need a BD Player, if they're only on HD-DVD, I'll need an HD-DVD player. If they're split 50/50, like it looks like they may be, I'll need a player that does both. So I guess we need to march on Hollywood.

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post #12 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 09:11 AM
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Sadly, the call for a unified format has failed. The next best outcome for consumers is for one format to win the "war" as quickly as possible.

Although there are pros and cons to each technology, I'd be ready to accept either format if it meant not having to check whether a given Hi-Def movie would work on my player over and over and over... I really want to buy a HD player as soon as possible, so I would like outcome of the war to be clear before the first hardware arrives on shelves.

David, do you have the capacity to set up a simple online voting site? Ideally, voters would sign a pledge before voting to support the outcome of the BR vs HD DVD vote REGARDLESS of the outcome. Such a pledge is the only way that the outcome of the vote would carry weight with the industry.

I know the outcome would be close, but I would be willing to have my favorite format lose if it meant one format. In the end, even companies who had backed the "losing" format would come out ahead because they wouldn't have wasted so much money.

The HD disk consumer advocacy alliance has a good cause, but the "What We Believe" section is too long and may be unrealistic. It introduced me to several smaller issues I hadn't thought about ie analog compatibility, fair use etc. While these additional issues are important, inclusion of such relatively minor issues could cloud the overarching theme--We want one format!
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post #13 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 12:46 PM
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Bgall, I heard that from one other person as well. :)

I don't think David sounds like me though. Although I also talk way to fast. The only time I talk slow is when I am speaking in public, I have given speached to 500 1000 people at a time and I sound like a different person.

Scott
SatelliteGuys.US / MultiChannel News
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post #14 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonks
Sadly, the call for a unified format has failed. The next best outcome for consumers is for one format to win the "war" as quickly as possible.
We have gained enormously from there being two competing formats (such as advanced codec support). I for one am happy to pay $1,000 (in the form of purchasing both high-def players upon release) to ensure competition continues. If one format "loses", I would hope it is only because they are supporting another format such as HVD.

I should also note that competing high-def formats are the reason that full strength HD component outputs is a possible option. If one format was to go away tomorrow, you can consider full strength HD component outputs dead.

Competition is our friend.
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post #15 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 09:17 PM
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Let the war begin, and may the format with the greatest data storage capability win.
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post #16 of 33 Old 09-23-2005, 09:34 PM
 
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I should also note that competing high-def formats are the reason that full strength HD component outputs is a possible option. If one format was to go away tomorrow, you can consider full strength HD component outputs dead.
has something changed that I do not know about
cause I thought these formats would only work with digital video output and HDCP complaint display devices
component would be down ressed to 480p
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post #17 of 33 Old 09-24-2005, 10:14 AM
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I really need to catch up, I didn't realize you had so many sessions (episodes?). It looks like I missed the last ten, I had to stop listening when my portable audio device failed.

I had listened to the segment. I thought it was pretty interesting, but if the "AVS Radio" segment is going to be a regular, I recommend using a better system than the telephone.
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post #18 of 33 Old 09-24-2005, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kny3twalker
has something changed that I do not know about
cause I thought these formats would only work with digital video output and HDCP complaint display devices component would be down ressed to 480p
I don't see HD component coming. As it is, the "competition" mentioned before are whoring for studio support, so the two formats are trying to outdo each other in terms of consumer unfriendlyness. I doubt that either format could change their requirements without studios defecting.
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post #19 of 33 Old 09-25-2005, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
I had listened to the segment. I thought it was pretty interesting, but if the "AVS Radio" segment is going to be a regular, I recommend using a better system than the telephone.
We are investing in a better telephone recording system. When we are done it will sound just like any other radio show that takes callers. Our (Ara and Braden) voices will sound the same throughout the podcast. The callers voice will sound a tad better than the the last telephone interview.

Both Braden and I appreciate you listening

Ara Derderian
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post #20 of 33 Old 09-26-2005, 05:55 AM
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@David:

I really liked one comment in the show about blu-ray and/or HD-DVD question. I don´t know exactly if you said it or Alan, but the other one agreed really well, so I put in on both of you.

You said:
"Whatever format, I wanted it yesterday." and the talk about the years going by to get a stable format going and not fighting each others. I think these two things really in the mind of people who watching HD. I think there are a lot of people who don`t even care if the HD-DVD (probaly more weak) will win, they just wanna have a format out there.

On the other hand I really agree with the 1080p Display talk, it`s kinda annoying when you hear from people: "If you wanna watch HD you need a 1080p Display" and when you ask them out, they haven`t even seen one picture in HD. I think the question there is if the eye can still see the difference between a good 1080i or 1080p content.


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post #21 of 33 Old 09-26-2005, 06:04 AM
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Just listened to the AVS episode and I'm hooked. I'm going to d/l all the episodes and listen to them.

Great job guys. Your show even reaches down here in Australia. :)
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post #22 of 33 Old 09-26-2005, 07:32 AM
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Hello Jeff:

As you know, phone is phone. Ara & Braden are in the studio, so they sound great. Phone call in will be another issues all together and will sound different. It is being looked into to being improved upon. After all, we will have chats with people in the industry and we want to be sure it can sound as well as we can make it sound.

Thank you kindly for the input.

BTW...The first AVS Radio show was last Thursdays with Alan and I, the other shows where all just the HT Guys without input from us. We just liked what they did and brought them aboard AVS Forum to reach more people. It is all about the fun.

Thanks

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post #23 of 33 Old 09-26-2005, 07:43 AM
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Doug...

That was Alan and was right spot on. More or less, we would LOVE to have hi-def content in a disk form. We both have D-VHS, but you know how that story goes. It is just not a disc with all that ease it brings. And you are right....most people, the general consumers, will not care either way is also my guess. However, two formats will make for a confused consumer. You will the need duel players to curb that issue and that in itself would be harder said then done based on how they may care to allow it.

On the 1080P issue. Sure 1080P is better than 1080i. Can a person see the difference on a 60" screen without test gear...I would think not. Remember, we are talking about the general public who just goes to buy a new set. But is it better from front projection? Answer is the same. Yes....sure. More pixels = better image (or should). But again, broadcast HD is 1080i or 720P. Thus any HD set with the current chips should render the full image as it is sent. Where it would really shine is with pure 1080P content. Then again, if you take field one and filed 2 of a 1080i program you end up with one frame of 1080p and thus should look very, very smooth and nice. ;) To people like us...it matters. To the mass general public, it becomes marketing for most would not know.

Had someone call me yesterday during football..."What the heck is DLP?" (TI ad for DLP) See what I mean. Thus my point is proven. :)

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post #24 of 33 Old 09-26-2005, 08:41 AM
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Thanks for answering me. I agree with you at the point that a 1080p would defently look awesome, but I think it will never be broadcast, not locally, neither over Cable or Satellite (on both providers). So same as your Opinion, when I understand you right. 1080p would just deal with hardware devices such as blu-ray. I mean Sony and Panasonic already told the press that they will release 1080p content on blu-ray if blu-ray gets through.

I have a 720p Display and I am just fine with it.

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post #25 of 33 Old 09-26-2005, 10:07 AM
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First off all great episode. Actually all of them are very good. I really like how this show is done to earth and doesn't recommend some overly expensive equipment. This proves what I am talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMan
On the other hand I really agree with the 1080p Display talk, it`s kinda annoying when you hear from people: "If you wanna watch HD you need a 1080p Display" and when you ask them out, they haven`t even seen one picture in HD. I think the question there is if the eye can still see the difference between a good 1080i or 1080p content.


DougMan
Keep up the great work!

Ernie
.: DVD Profiler :.

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post #26 of 33 Old 09-26-2005, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougMan
@David:
I think the question there is if the eye can still see the difference between a good 1080i or 1080p content.
I think it depends on the context and the content. If you mean looking at the mid-sized flat panels from across a room, probably very few, if anyone can see a difference. But if one were to project an image and watch from one screen width away, then I think a lot of people with good vision could tell.
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post #27 of 33 Old 09-27-2005, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arad
September 22, 2005 - Podcast #29
Listen Now!

Our email address is hdtvpodcast@mac.com

Today's show:
In today's episode, we cover some news from the HDTV and Home Theater world and talk to the founders of the AVS Forum, David Bott and Alan Gouger.

About AVS Forum:
AVS Forum is the place to go for chat on just about anything home theater related. From industry professionals to end users, you will find someone there who can help out if you have a question or to just chat with you about your favorite home theater topics.


Origianlly called 'AV Science Q&A', the AVS Forum was founded way back in 1995. Those were the good old days, when CRT was really the only front display option around. As time passed and the consumer electronics industry boomed, founder David Bott saw the need the site could fill and opened up AVS Forum in 1999 as you see it today. Bott, along with co-founder Alan Gouger, have adapted and changed the site to keep pace with the ever-evolving world of home theater. Alan and David have formed a lasting friendship over the years, and share a passion and excitment for audio/visual electronics and the home theater industry. "It is like we think the same in not only our passion for home theater, but how we care to treat others." said David. They try their best to make the AVS Forum site reflect their own passions and commitment.

Listen to the show for insights into the world of HDTV and Home Theater from these two industry insiders.
Thanks for the information on podcast. I am new to this forum as I want to buy a 1080p but after listening about difference, maybe I should buy a 720p.

I am a retired Electrical engineer with a lot of analog/didital design experience, but now I have to learn all the new items regarding HDTV. My old 1991 50 inch Mitsubishi just crashed, so I have to study just what I should get,

PS I am also on South OC, Mission Viejo.

Now I have to listen to all the podcasts,THANKS.

Ray
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post #28 of 33 Old 09-28-2005, 08:15 AM
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Could be OT, but...

@Arad:

I went to your guys webpage and I don`t know if it`s just because I used Firefox Internet Explorer to browse over your site, but you guys have a dark blue background and black color for the letters? I wasn`t able to read a few things.

Well but as I said could be cause I used Firefox instead of Mozilla, which aren`t compatible with few pages.

DougMan
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post #29 of 33 Old 09-28-2005, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi DougMan,

We check everything out on Firefox, Explorer & Safari (both Mac and PC) to make sure everything looks OK. Please tell us what was hard to read so we can adjust the site.

Also, when you click on the link for the audio in Firefox you are presented a dialog box to download the audio. IE automatically launches Windows Media Player and Safari just plays the audio in the browser window.

The best way to get the show is using our RSS feed and automatically syncing it to the mp3 player of your choice.

We are so happy to be involved with AVS Forum and really appreciate all your help!
Ara
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post #30 of 33 Old 09-28-2005, 10:12 AM
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I use Firefox exclusively (on WinXP) and everything looks/works fine. The background color should be a light blue-gray color, not dark blue. It's set by CSS as #7990B2. I'm not sure if it would help, but you might want to see about adjusting your monitor.

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