February 22nd - Blu-ray Backlash - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 146 Old 02-24-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

yes, it is...if you like fiction. My A30 has not frozen on any disc, had synch issues,or any other glitch. (With NO firmware updates!) A friend (who owns a Sony BDP3000) unfortunately cannot say the same.

Your fiction is another man's truth.

I can't tell you how many times my Toshiba A1 has locked up on me since I have owned it. Let's just say quite a bit. And that isn't "fiction" to me, or my family, when it happens, I promise you.


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post #122 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 09:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Your fiction is another man's truth.

I can't tell you how many times my Toshiba A1 has locked up on me since I have owned it. Let's just say quite a bit. And that isn't "fiction" to me, or my family, when it happens, I promise you.

I don't doubt that. But remember, the A1 was the first generation model (as well as the first HD player to make it to market). Issues can always be expected. It is no longer the case for many newer models. Don't get me wrong...I am aware that some people have reported issues with various models on BOTH formats. I was simply taking issue with the poster who stated that glitches were format-specific to HD-DVD, which is very much not the case.
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post #123 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

yes, it is...if you like fiction. My A30 has not frozen on any disc, had synch issues,or any other glitch. (With NO firmware updates!) A friend (who owns a Sony BDP3000) unfortunately cannot say the same.

Thank you for making my point. The fact that you have had no problems, and others and myself have, shows that quality control left much to be desired. The fact that some of us are having problems is not fiction, its reality. The fact that you are not is not fiction, its reality. This reality unfortunately points to QC problems, and that is a fact.
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post #124 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

I don't doubt that. But remember, the A1 was the first generation model (as well as the first HD player to make it to market). Issues can always be expected. It is no longer the case for many newer models. Don't get me wrong...I am aware that some people have reported issues with various models on BOTH formats. I was simply taking issue with the poster who stated that glitches were format-specific to HD-DVD, which is very much not the case.

I never stated glitches were specific to HD DVD, don't know where you got that from. However, my PS3 has not caused me a single issue, not one. Every disc that has gone in its drawer has played back flawlessly. No washing disc, no disc boiling, no issues. That has not been the case for my A1, XA-2 or A-35. All of them have had issues, some solved(A1) some still a problem but manageable(cannot run my XA-2 in 24fps mode), and some just plain unaddressed(A-35 cannot get through a single HD DVD). I am going to have to return my A-35 for repair, and perhaps the XA-2 as well.

There are alot more than SOME people having issues with HD DVD players. You can read this board, HTF and audioreview and see that quite a few HD DVD players are coming out with issues. Playing an issue down does not make it go away.
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post #125 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence View Post

If you think that downloads are your answer to quality, then your ceiling is my floor. Downloads are not even half the quality of these formats, but if that is your ldea of quality, the future of the rental world will be heavenly for you. For me, downloads are my floor. And the only thing I want to do with my floor is walk on it.

Ignorance is bliss. I would have thought the same thing a few months ago.
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post #126 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

I don't doubt that. But remember, the A1 was the first generation model (as well as the first HD player to make it to market). Issues can always be expected. It is no longer the case for many newer models. Don't get me wrong...I am aware that some people have reported issues with various models on BOTH formats. I was simply taking issue with the poster who stated that glitches were format-specific to HD-DVD, which is very much not the case.

So being a "first generation model" means that I need to expect it to freeze up? So I need to buy another HD DVD player that is second or third generation? I guess the price argument in favor of HD DVD would be more than dead then, wouldn't it?!

My Pioneer Elite HD1 is a first generation player as well. You should check the owners thread on this player, and you will see that there are very, very few problems. The player just works.

I can't say the same for my Toshiba A1.


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post #127 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

yes, it is...if you like fiction. My A30 has not frozen on any disc, had synch issues,or any other glitch. (With NO firmware updates!) A friend (who owns a Sony BDP3000) unfortunately cannot say the same.

i have a bdp''300'' no issues since i had it
i also have an tosh a20 no issues,both with the latist firmwares.
whats your point?
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post #128 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 11:20 PM
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I predict that Blu-Ray will grow along with HDTV penetration and become a mainstream format. Quite simply, people will see the difference and want the higher resolution player for their new HDTV. Now that the fear of picking the wrong format has been removed and all the studios are aligned, there is really nothing to stop adoption of BD. Manufacturers will invest in developing BD players, causing pricing to come down to the point ($200) where mass market adoption can occur. I think this will happen within a year or so. When it does, I will be jumping on the bandwagon. Yes, there will still be DVDs and downloading will grow, but for the near term, BD offers the only choice for high quality playback. So, BD will survive in spite of Sony.

But I won't be buying a Sony BD player.

Sony's proprietary formats and high pricing do not offer value to the consumer. For example, I refuse to buy a Sony Notebook because it only has a Memory Stick slot. How stupid is that? Most of my cameras and portable devices use SD media. None of them use a Memory Stick. Almost every other brand of notebook comes with an SD slot. So am I supposed to pay more for a product that meets Sony's needs but doesn't meet mine? I think not. Additionally, my own experience has shown that their products are less reliable than other brands. Should I go on? OK, I dislike the sound of their audio products. Every Sony product I have owned seems to sound soft, lacking dynamics, rhythm and pace. Then there's the rootkit fiasco. Did they think that people wouldn't notice, or care? I remember when Sony stood for quality and innovation (OK, I'm old). They were the CE company to watch, much like Apple is today. But they have lost touch with their customers and now are my last choice in consumer electronics.
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post #129 of 146 Old 02-25-2008, 11:45 PM
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I bought an A1 shortly after it was available and it has never had a problem. I have a PS3 also and it has done very well but ive watched it a lot less since I just got it a month ago.
I have an A3 and A35 but havent used them much, hopefully my luck will hold.

Now if my sony 60" xbr1 wasnt coated in yellow tint im sure both formats would look better.
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post #130 of 146 Old 02-26-2008, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biloxi View Post

Blu-ray won for reasons other than technology and product pricing. And the consumer should be very afraid of what that reason is.

Oh really, So they didn't win because they put a free blu-ray player on the PS3 for 399$ right before X-mas?? that sounds like great technology and product pricing to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biloxi View Post

Sony, et al, used their muscle in content production and distribution to beat out HD..

Isn't that what HD-DVD tried to do when they bought out Paramount/dreamworks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biloxi View Post

Sony, et all, are trying to control the market rather than the consumer controlling the market. We have two perfect examples staring at us right now, ie (1) Sony's abandonment of (arguably) superior technology to steer more consumers to much higher margin LCD and (2) beating out HD to drive us to higher margin DVD players..

by "superior technology" do you mean RPTV?? Are you serious?? I mean I love my KDSR60XBR2 SXRD but I would not call it a "superior technology". I preferr my KDL52XBR4 LCD much more. (But I will love the Pioneer PDP-6010FD I just ordered much more probably)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biloxi View Post

There are laws in the US and EU marketplaces to stop this unethical behaviour. But how will it end? We have to vote with our pocketbooks.

What would you call what microsoft (former HD-DVD backer) is doing with Windows??

Yea, you are right!
Sony is EVIL!!
Damn them for putting a 399$ blu-ray/playstation/dvd-upconvertor/web-browser on the market right before X-mas so many people could enjoy BD-ROM for a great price as well as getting a PS3.
And lets put our hands together for HD-DVD for waiting until AFTER X-MAS to drop the price of HD-DVD players drastically. What a smart move HD-DVD!!!

Oh and by the way, Let Microsoft keep thier streaming video! I don't want it! too many issues.
I will keep my Blu-ray made by the evil corpration.

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #131 of 146 Old 02-27-2008, 11:25 AM
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Just glad I have the ax2 hd dvd player that upconverts standard dvds very close to hi def. quality. I have tried with both formats and it is very difficult to tell any difference, and that is on a 106" screen. Both can keep their Very Costly Media; I will stick with looking at SD DVDS unless they drop the prices to standard dvd prices, which I doubt will happen now with no competition. Just my view.

Joe
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post #132 of 146 Old 02-27-2008, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BluRayFreak View Post

Everybody keeps mentioning Sony, but there are a lot more companies involved in Blu-Ray than just Sony....especially now!

Me--I'm very happy with my SONY BPD-S300 Blu-Ray player...have had NO problems with it and I'm enjoying the hell out of my movies! I've just about sold all of my HD-DVDs, but am keeping my A3 as an upconverting machine.

Looking forward to a Blu future

But does it support BD Profile 2.0?


And don't forget, Sony Pictures...so they do have a stake in it as a content provider.


I myself probably will stick with DVD until thy either stop making them or BD pricing comes down to present DVDs (players less than $150).

My TV does a decent job upconverting my DVDs, which BTW is a Sony only because of a BF deal I couldn't refuse.

My friend has a Sony P4 desktop computer. It has PC133 memory instead of DDR. He doesn't know the performance it he's taking, but knows the cost of upgrading that 256MB would cost more than what the machine is worth...

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post #133 of 146 Old 02-27-2008, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by moviegeek View Post

We need to remember that Toshiba and Sony are not the bad guys,it was the studios and retailers who decided the fate of HD DVD.
The studios have more to lose if HDM doesn't survive,Sony and Toshiba will continue to make other electronic devices.

Don't forget, Sony is a studio...

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post #134 of 146 Old 02-27-2008, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathRider View Post

Don't forget, Sony is a studio...

Actually Sony is a company that also owns a studio (which is also a company).


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post #135 of 146 Old 02-27-2008, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence View Post

This is a red herring of an argument. The competition is still there, but its now behind one format. Sony has to compete with Panasonic, who has to compete with Pioneer, which has to compete with Sharp, which has to compete with Daewoo. Do you think that Toshiba is the only competition? So you believe its better to endanger HDM on disc just so the format war keeps Sony in check? That is ridiculous and absurd. Now that we don't have a war, Sony has to compete with all of the other bluray manufacturers for my money. Whoever makes the best quality player, wins. The one with the least amount of problems wins. The one that has the best performance to value ratio wins. The competition between the manufacturers will raise the performance of all players, and the ones that are problem plagued will not sell. You do not need competition from two formats to acheive this. This is doomsday FUD at its best.


Well, for now, the PS3 is still the best player/most bang for the buck, at least until everyone starts selling profile 2.0 players for under $400...

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post #136 of 146 Old 02-27-2008, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wipron View Post

Don't know if it can just be called a blu-ray backlash, but most of us figured that when the "war" was decided, the BOGOs for the most part would be over and prices of players would hold firm. It's only been about a week since Toshiba ended HD DVD, so I guess we'll see.

But to have so many people wanting one of the formats to die, I never understood that. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face

I can also say with certainty that if prices stay between 25 -30 bucks, there will be no more coming into my home.

With almost 1000 sd dvds and over 160 HD movies + DirecTV HD package, I can do without.

If prices stay the same, we can say that SONY and Blu-ray won the battle but will undoubtedly lose the war. IMHO of course.

It would be much cheaper for me to upgrade my TiVo S3 to 2TB of storage ( I do get all the movie channels but HBO in HD) than go BD...and quicker to access

I only have a Sony 46" W3k since I picked it up for $1100 less than the present retail price...

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post #137 of 146 Old 04-11-2008, 04:04 AM
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I don't have any problem with Sony Blu-Ray player.

My Favorite
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post #138 of 146 Old 05-26-2008, 04:26 AM
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BR-HD. I don't care. I just want to watch movies when I want, where I want without worrying that what I pay for now is just going to go down the toilet in another year. Best scenario? Get rid of all the various "portable" devices we all use when we travel and make it one. Are we going to always have to carry one thing for texting and talking (cell phone), one music (Ipod/MPG?), something for videos (who knows...) and something for books (let's see... what's this Kindle thing about??)?
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post #139 of 146 Old 05-31-2008, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathRider View Post

Don't forget, Sony is a studio...

That is really splitting hairs, especially with how controlling a company like Sony tends to be. With Sony owning the studio, the studio IS Sony...

Read about the Sony Rootkit fiasco.
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post #140 of 146 Old 05-31-2008, 07:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JackieJ View Post

BR-HD. I don't care. I just want to watch movies when I want, where I want without worrying that what I pay for now is just going to go down the toilet in another year. Best scenario? Get rid of all the various "portable" devices we all use when we travel and make it one. Are we going to always have to carry one thing for texting and talking (cell phone), one music (Ipod/MPG?), something for videos (who knows...) and something for books (let's see... what's this Kindle thing about??)?

This is what happens in a free market society. We get the best(usually) for less and we have choices. If you want just one unit, you either need to invent it or vote for communism(or Microsoft...JK)

Scott
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post #141 of 146 Old 06-02-2008, 07:17 AM
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But I won't be buying a Sony BD player.

Sony's proprietary formats and high pricing do not offer value to the consumer. For example, I refuse to buy a Sony Notebook because it only has a Memory Stick slot. How stupid is that? Most of my cameras and portable devices use SD media. None of them use a Memory Stick. Almost every other brand of notebook comes with an SD slot. So am I supposed to pay more for a product that meets Sony's needs but doesn't meet mine? I think not. Additionally, my own experience has shown that their products are less reliable than other brands. Should I go on? OK, I dislike the sound of their audio products. Every Sony product I have owned seems to sound soft, lacking dynamics, rhythm and pace. Then there's the rootkit fiasco. Did they think that people wouldn't notice, or care? I remember when Sony stood for quality and innovation (OK, I'm old). They were the CE company to watch, much like Apple is today. But they have lost touch with their customers and now are my last choice in consumer electronics.[/quote]

Amen! or Ramen as it were...
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post #142 of 146 Old 06-10-2008, 03:58 PM
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I'm looking forward to getting an Blu-ray player, all I care about for the moment is quality picture.
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post #143 of 146 Old 06-14-2008, 10:52 PM
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Wow, what a thread Bradon started. I just scanned this thread and I can't believe all of the "sour grapes" that I've read. Some sound just disgruntled that their choice didn't win. and some are just pissed at Sony. I wonder how many of the you guys will change your tune when your Toshiba player stops working. I fault both Sony and Toshiba for not willing to compromise (but that in part is also related to the Japanese heritage).

As for hating Sony, my feelings towards Toshiba is just as strong, if not stronger. Sony makes products that they believe the consumers should buy. But the products are, for the most part, of good to very good quality. Their pro-sumer and professional lines are usually excellent (TV cameras, studio monitors, etc.). As a company, they are obsessed with quality. They have also made some very bad decisions too (re: the rootkit issue), and failing to put more effort into the development of non-CRT studio monitors soon enough.

I have had two Sony TV sets and they both outlived the other brands I have had, by 2:1, or more. I too really don't like to buy Sony products, if there is a viable choice, but that is because I don't like their corporate policies (on copy protection, etc.), not because Sony Electronics doesn't make good products. The same is true for Disney and other Sony Studio corporate products. As for customer service, I've had need of it twice, and both times I got good service (once for free, even though I was willing to pay for it, since my mother dropped the portable radio and I didn't have my receipt either).

I can't say the same for Toshiba. I've owned 2 of their products. My Toshiba laptop failed 1 month after the 1 year warranty expired. The other was a Toshiba MT700 projector (OEM from BenQ). It had a design defect, which caused the lamps to fail in 50 to 350 hours, which BenQ found and fixed. Toshiba refused to admit that there was a problem (even though their repair facility couldn't fix them) and they just stopped selling the PJ and dropped their (2 year) warranty before the first 2 years was up. Oh, and it took them 9 months to supply a new design (one of BenQ's 2 fixes) replacement lamp through my lamp warranty company. My conclusion is that Toshiba is out to screw the customer in order to maximize their profits. Their taking a bath on the HD-DVD front was their just deserts, IMHO. I do regret that they took a lot of their customers with them (and I feel really bad for those of you). But Toshiba could care less.

Now that the "war" is over, the Blu-ray manufacturer battles really begin. I will probably get a BD player sometime later this year. Most likely either the latest Pioneer (preferred) or Panasonic. The new Pioneer models (51FD and Elite 05FD) are projected to have lower prices than Panasonic BD50 (a first). So far there are only a dozen, or so, titles of the movies I like, have been released. Also, the BD consortium hasn't gotten their act together either (Sony doesn't control the whole show, like Toshiba did). Therefore, I'm in no real hurry to "upgrade", although the itch is there. I've held off since the HD war began, another 3-6 months is peanuts.

Last item is the cost. A lot of the complaints about price increases are a little misplaced. People are, conveniently, forgetting that we (USA) are having a financial problem - decreased value of the dollar, and very high (for us) fuel prices effecting transportation costs across the board. So don't expect price drops until we got our financial house under control again.

I only hope that whatever replaces Blu-ray DVD media, will have better video and audio properties than current BD and HD-DVD does. HD video quality (the best examples) alone is just not good enough, nor is a long download time (if internet sourced). The current time it takes to get a 25 - 50GB file is unacceptable, compared to spending $25 - $35 for a DVD.

I used to pay $35 - $65 for a good Laserdisc movie years ago, so the current prices are not "outrageous". If that's too much, just get a SD DVD and quit griping (some titles are better on SD DVDs anyway). After all, that's what a lot of VHS owner's did, before DVDs hit full-fledged commodity status.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #144 of 146 Old 06-23-2008, 01:23 PM
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wow! homerun man great post

amen
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post #145 of 146 Old 06-24-2008, 06:47 PM
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indeed...

i too don't have any issues with sony blu-rays...
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post #146 of 146 Old 06-25-2008, 10:14 AM
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I will be jumping on the Blu-Ray bandwagon soon, and am the only one contemplating it of everyone I know. Most are satisfied with DVD, and don't think the difference is big enough, especially with the price difference. Combine that with downloadable HD already out there, and Blu-Ray could have a short life.
The main thing that I'm not looking forward to is the long wait for blank media to go down in price. DVD-DL is finally at a decent price, and it's taken quite awhile. I hate to imagine how long it will take Blu-Ray recordable to be at a decent price.
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