February 22nd - Blu-ray Backlash - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Today's Show

We had planned some very different content for today's show, but something very strange happened this week. There seems to be a huge backlash against Blu-ray for some reason. It caught us somewhat by surprise, but the trend is too strong to ignore, so we just have to talk about it. If the war really is over, and by most accounts it is, why aren't people rejoicing in the peaceful times ahead? Why can't we put the differences behind us and move on to soak in all our movies in HD on one kind of disc, and maybe enjoy a little wide scale adoption at the same time? more...

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post #2 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:10 AM
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Maturity or lack there of.
False pride.
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post #3 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:15 AM
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I won't take part in any Sony-backed technologies as a general rule.
Just because the format war is supposedly over doesn't mean everyone needs to jump into Blu Ray to get their HD fix.
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post #4 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:22 AM
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Some people just don't like a particular company and the way they have conducted business over a period time.

I'm guessing that is a big part of the reason for the backlash.

Had HD DVD won, the response would be the same from the Blu Ray camp.

Sure, videophiles and early adopters embraced this technology, but I believe it is a myth that the "masses" were sitting on the sidelines waiting for a clear winner.

The masses really don't know much about it, or even that there was a format war to begin with. Price is still the determining factor, and when that becomes reasonable for the masses, you will see adoption at that point.
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post #5 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGrafx View Post

I won't take part in any Sony-backed technologies as a general rule.
Just because the format war is supposedly over doesn't mean everyone needs to jump into Blu Ray to get their HD fix.

I feel the same way. Sony is evil in my household, and I won't own any more products made by them.

I'm not in the war, but I do want this to get settled out so the path forward will be clear. With upconverting DVD players, there is no reason for me to change formats yet again.

I picked up a Toshiba HD-DVD drive in November at Wal*Mart, but I've not purchased any media for it. I needed another upconverting drive, and for a few $$ more I got HD-DVD.

I'm no fan of Sony, but I would like to see this settle out.

CJ

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post #6 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGrafx View Post

I won't take part in any Sony-backed technologies as a general rule.
Just because the format war is supposedly over doesn't mean everyone needs to jump into Blu Ray to get their HD fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post

I feel the same way. Sony is evil in my household, and I won't own any more products made by them.

I'm not in the war, but I do want this to get settled out so the path forward will be clear. With upconverting DVD players, there is no reason for me to change formats yet again.

I picked up a Toshiba HD-DVD drive in November at Wal*Mart, but I've not purchased any media for it. I needed another upconverting drive, and for a few $$ more I got HD-DVD.

I'm no fan of Sony, but I would like to see this settle out.

CJ

How is Sony's perceived "evil" behavior any better/worse than Microsoft's? Yes, the same Microsoft that was a primary force behind HD-DVD! Neither of these company's is bad, but they are both big and that can sometimes lead to being out of sync with the users.

Oh and by the way, both companies donate millions and millions to charities and community efforts.

Both technologies were/are solid formats and it should be good for the consumer that we can now move forward with a single format.
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post #7 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:33 AM
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Everybody keeps mentioning Sony, but there are a lot more companies involved in Blu-Ray than just Sony....especially now!

Me--I'm very happy with my SONY BPD-S300 Blu-Ray player...have had NO problems with it and I'm enjoying the hell out of my movies! I've just about sold all of my HD-DVDs, but am keeping my A3 as an upconverting machine.

Looking forward to a Blu future
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post #8 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheel23 View Post

Some people just don't like a particular company and the way they have conducted business over a period of time.

This is precisely the reason for the backlash. Sony has shown themselves to be quite anti-consumer over the last 2 years. I won't beat a dead horse by giving specific examples since most everyone here should know them already.

I'm also glad the mass media outlets have picked up on the fact that blu-ray is very much an unfinished product with hardware/software compatibility being a major concern.

Everyone here is an HD lover; but at some point a company can lose consumer trust to a point that it becomes less about the technology that we all love. It starts to become a matter of principle. I'm not saying everyone thinks that way; but I think there is a significant percentage of early adopters that do.
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post #9 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperGrafx View Post

I won't take part in any Sony-backed technologies as a general rule.
Just because the format war is supposedly over doesn't mean everyone needs to jump into Blu Ray to get their HD fix.

I couldn't agree more I won't buy sony-backed anything period.Blu-ray maybe better or not don't really care I will wait and see whatelse happens before I blow a ton of money on blu-ray.
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post #10 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:46 AM
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We need to remember that Toshiba and Sony are not the bad guys,it was the studios and retailers who decided the fate of HD DVD.
The studios have more to lose if HDM doesn't survive,Sony and Toshiba will continue to make other electronic devices.
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post #11 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:47 AM
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"AVS Forum Celebrates Peace in the Format War" I was an early HD DVD adopter, but as much as I dislike Sony, Blu Ray is still the best option out there right now, if you want the best quality possible.
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post #12 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:48 AM
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Pfft, Sony was a major contributor in the DVD Consortium. Have the Sony haters also abandoned that format?
Sure, there was a lot to like about HD-DVD. But it's over now, let it go.
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post #13 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheel23 View Post

Some people just don't like a particular company and the way they have conducted business over a period time.

I'm guessing that is a big part of the reason for the backlash.

Had HD DVD won, the response would be the same from the Blu Ray camp.

Sure, videophiles and early adopters embraced this technology, but I believe it is a myth that the "masses" were sitting on the sidelines waiting for a clear winner.

The masses really don't know much about it, or even that there was a format war to begin with. Price is still the determining factor, and when that becomes reasonable for the masses, you will see adoption at that point.

BINGO!!!

What a lucid, real world post! Such a rarity these days.

I absolutely never understood why soooo many people thought that what was keeping HDM from growing was that people were "confused" and waiting it out to see which format would emerge. The truth of the matter is that only the members of this site and other like it were the only one's espousing this notion. Non-movie hobbyist just don't care. Period! And, here's a tip: It you want them (general public) to notice you (HDM industry), become more attractive by lowering your damn prices (media and hardware)! And please save me the "my VCR or SD DVD player cost $_______when it was new" BS, 'cause you and I both know that they weren't flying off the shelves then either. Blu Ray IS and will always be a NICHE' Market!!

Confused?? Don't make me laugh! Ok then, now that the guess work has been taken out the format equation, lets put the confused theory...er..fact to the test. Blu ray is sitting in the highly coveted, highly visible big chair now and their isn't any ambiguity about it. So lets all just sit back and watch Sony...er...Blu ray struggle to get out it's own way...

By the way, I own both format players and an Oppo 981.

Price matters significantly, people!
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post #14 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad386 View Post

This is precisely the reason for the backlash. Sony has shown themselves to be quite anti-consumer over the last 2 years. I won't beat a dead horse by giving specific examples since most everyone here should know them already.

I'm also glad the mass media outlets have picked up on the fact that blu-ray is very much an unfinished product with hardware/software compatibility being a major concern.

Everyone here is an HD lover; but at some point a company can lose consumer trust to a point that it becomes less about the technology that we all love. It starts to become a matter of principle. I'm not saying everyone thinks that way; but I think there is a significant percentage of early adopters that do.


Chad or anyone else.....I've only been here for sizx months.
Can someone please fill me in on why I would dislike Sony for the last two years? I am all for not giving my money to bad companies.
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post #15 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 07:57 AM
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LOL @ people who complain about anything.

Complain about global warming, but they drive SUV's ...

Complain about $5 coffee, but get their frappuccino fix every afternoon ...

Puuhhhhlleeeeeeaaaasssseeeeee ... get a life. It's for your own good.

Never thought I'd see so many fanboys in the AVS forums ...

:sigh:
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post #16 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moviegeek View Post

We need to remember that Toshiba and Sony are not the bad guys,it was the studios and retailers who decided the fate of HD DVD.
The studios have more to lose if HDM doesn't survive,Sony and Toshiba will continue to make other electronic devices.

Yes they have alot to lose and if it continues the way it is they will lose.That another reason just wait if hd-dvd isn't round what's to say blu-ray will still be around a year from now.

Just seems to me the people I talk to about it at work and so forth....Don't want it and don't care about it at all.

Ofcourse that couldn't change but maybe toshiba was smart to get out before it gets worse.Just a thought.

I know no company is "EVIL" but I tend not to spend my money with sony products.I have my reasons for it.
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post #17 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:05 AM
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I would add (to ab2ad's post) that Sony has tried to monopolise the market as it did (unsuccesfully) with the SACD audio format. It seems that consumers have been categorised by SONY at its sole whim and discretion. The result cannot be in favour of consumers. Although I own players of both formats (I had to buy two BD players, one for each one of the two major reasons), I would have wished HD DVD to emerge victorious believing that the HD DVD industry would have served consumers better. The future will show whether I was right or wrong.
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post #18 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:07 AM
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Toshiba got out becasue studio support was for BR. This is known.
BR may not make it but that would be a sad thing as there would moist likely not be a HD-disc format then.
What then? Streaming? please no!
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post #19 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBB View Post

Although I own players of both formats (I had to buy two BD players, one for each one of the two major reasons)

Why did you hav to buy two BR players?
Can someone please fill me in on the Sony stuff, as far as why they are considered 'evil'?
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post #20 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad386 View Post

Sony has shown themselves to be quite anti-consumer over the last 2 years. I won't beat a dead horse by giving specific examples since most everyone here should know them already.

That may be the opinion of a very, very few people who post on forums but the facts are that Sony is consistently one of the most respected brands in the world and near the top in Consumer Goods. I'm not discounting a few peoples negative experiences with them, but they did not build that worldwide reputaiton by being anti-consumer.
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post #21 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:10 AM
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I personally don't like the way they "won". The war was NOT decided by the consumer based on features. It was won in the back-deals in board rooms of very powerful corporations. These type of deals are usually bad for the consumer and good for the corporations.

Everyone is predicting lower prices now, but I think the opposite is true. Sony will hold there media prices as high as they can. They bought their monopoly and now we have to pay for it.
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post #22 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by MrCrackers View Post

I personally don't like the way they "won". The war was NOT decided by the consumer based on features. It was won in the back-deals in board rooms of very powerful corporations. These type of deals are usually bad for the consumer and good for the corporations.

Everyone is predicting lower prices now, but I think the opposite is true. Sony will hold there media prices as high as they can. They bought their monopoly and now we have to pay for it.

Yes that is true why would sony drop prices when they can raise it lol you know as well as I do it's about making a buck or two and you they can do it now because they are the only one.
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post #23 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:17 AM
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Not different than anyother product or service is it? Pay for the best if you want it.
And as of now BR is by far the best way to watch HD material.
I owned an A2, HD-DVD lost, so I bought a PS3.
Sure I wish I could have spent that $400 on say ~ 12 discs, but it is what it is.
I do believe hd-dvd was trying to win it the same way....paying studios for support.
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post #24 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:19 AM
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I was pretty much neutral in this format war. I owned both formats, Toshiba A-35 and Samsung BDP-1400. If I had to pick which format I would have rather seen come out ahead I would have to say HD-DVD. I say this only because things just seemed to work better with this format. Maybe it was just me but I did not have nearly the disc and player problems with the A35 as the 1400. In fact my 1400 had to be sent in just this week because it refused to play BD discs. Played SD but not BD. It seems like every time I play a BD disc I cross my fingers that I can watch the whole movie without some glitch.
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post #25 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

Not different than anyother product or service is it? Pay for the best if you want it.
And as of now BR is by far the best way to watch HD material.
I owned an A2, HD-DVD lost, so I bought a PS3.
Sure I wish I could have spent that $400 on say ~ 12 discs, but it is what it is.
I do believe hd-dvd was trying to win it the same way....paying studios for support.

Very true it isn't any different from any other product that's why unlike alot of people I believe the prices are going to stay as high if not get higher.

I didn't blow any money on it yet nor will I for blu-ray I can wait for a long time.I keep hearing that prices will come down near christmas something tells me that's not true at all.I could be wrong but then again I can't figure out all the different versions of blu-ray players as of it anyway.
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post #26 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCrackers View Post

I personally don't like the way they "won". The war was NOT decided by the consumer based on features. It was won in the back-deals in board rooms of very powerful corporations. These type of deals are usually bad for the consumer and good for the corporations.

Everyone is predicting lower prices now, but I think the opposite is true. Sony will hold there media prices as high as they can. They bought their monopoly and now we have to pay for it.

+1

Agreed!

Oh, and for kicks, swing by Amazon and look at the prices of BR players now, especially the Panny BD30. The BD30 was consistently listed in the low-to-mid $400 range. Now it's close to $750.00! $750.00!! And, the Denon DVD-2500BTCI at BB is coming in at $999.99 at this stage in the HD game. What hubris!

When there's corporate competition, the consumer is the likely victor.
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post #27 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCrackers View Post

I personally don't like the way they "won". The war was NOT decided by the consumer based on features. It was won in the back-deals in board rooms of very powerful corporations. These type of deals are usually bad for the consumer and good for the corporations.

Everyone is predicting lower prices now, but I think the opposite is true. Sony will hold there media prices as high as they can. They bought their monopoly and now we have to pay for it.

+1

I agree 100%. I for one will help them pay for their monopoly.

Cheers
Willy
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post #28 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

+1

Agreed!

Oh, and for kicks, swing by Amazon and look at the prices of BR players now, especially the Panny BD30. The BD30 was consistently listed in the low-to-mid $400 range. Now it's close to $750.00! $750.00!! And, the Denon DVD-2500BTCI at BB is coming in at $999.99 at this stage on the HD game. What hubris!

When there's corporate competition, the consumer is the likely victor.

wow your right prices did go up already nice lol...I love hidef but you can keep this blu-ray stuff hopefully something else comes out that's better then blu-ray and not headed by sony.
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post #29 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCrackers View Post

I personally don't like the way they "won". The war was NOT decided by the consumer based on features. It was won in the back-deals in board rooms of very powerful corporations. These type of deals are usually bad for the consumer and good for the corporations.

Everyone is predicting lower prices now, but I think the opposite is true. Sony will hold there media prices as high as they can. They bought their monopoly and now we have to pay for it.

Right... and so did Microsoft... remember? They just did it a longer period of time ago
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post #30 of 146 Old 02-22-2008, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCrackers View Post

Everyone is predicting lower prices now, but I think the opposite is true. Sony will hold there media prices as high as they can. They bought their monopoly and now we have to pay for it.

Had Toshiba won the war, it would have been stupid to think prices were not gonna go up again... People don't seem to remember how much we paid for a DVD player 10 years ago... The first one I got cost me $500, and it wasn't among the most expensive ones... Next month I'll get a blu-ray player, and I won't mind spending $400 on it. DVD is affordable, nice. High Definition is a different thing, even if it is an "evolution" from SD DVD... 10 years ago, VHS was very affordable as well.
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