Toshiba XF550 series calibration service menu access and usage - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 307 Old 04-30-2008, 01:58 PM
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Hi all,

This post is to document what we see with the as delivered service menu settings and preset modes.

For this set of captures, I set my service menu to match the jam2001 default factory settings in column 1 of his spreadsheet. So my 52XF550U matches what he had coming from the factory.

I set the tv to sports mode and used HCFR to capture the performance.



Red and Blue are near the REC 709 targets. Green, Magenta, Cyan and Yellow are all missing their targets by quite a bit.

The brightness range is .017 ftL to 109.078 ftL for a contrast ratio of 6545:1

109+ ftL, no wonder it strains my eyes!



The Cool setting drives Blue at about 170% of Green and Red at about 50% of Green.
The Cool temp setting drives the white temp to over 12000 for all of the measured points.

The Standard preset follows.



The CIE chart looks much like the Sports mode, but Cyan and Yellow are a little closer to their targets, Magenta is a bit further out.

Brightness ranges from .024 ftL to 67.706 ftL for a contrast ratio of 2876:1



The Medium temp setting drives Blue at about 130-140% above Green and Red at 60-70% of Green. The White point is around 10500 for the Medium temp setting.

Movie and PC modes will be in the next post

links to the .chc files
http://www.mediafire.com/?giydyu7t3bm
http://www.mediafire.com/?jjyozw2db5i
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post #92 of 307 Old 04-30-2008, 02:28 PM
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This is Movie mode



In Movie mode Red, Blue, Magenta and Yellow are close to thier targets. Green and Cyan are still a long ways out. I can't explain why Green is even farther away from its target in this mode than in Sports or Standard modes.

The brightness range is from .024 ftL to 35.825 ftL for a contrast ratio of 1476:1



The Warm color temp pull Blue and Red closer to Green for an average color temp of around 8300. For a 6500 color temp the Red, Blue and Green lines will be on top of one another.



For a 6500 color temp the Red, Blue and Green lines will be on top of one another.

The PC mode is available for the HDMI inputs.



Not that much different from Standard mode.

The brightness range is from .046 ftL to 77.247 ftL for a contrast ratio of 1672:1



Using Medium temp gives us the almost the same chart as Standard mode again. The color temp runs around 10500.

the .chc file links
http://www.mediafire.com/?5lmtmt2mmj2
http://www.mediafire.com/?kdhmn5ycmdj

Next up, trying to calibrate with default service menu settings from Movie mode. We may be able to get where we want to be without touching the service mode. For now my settings are back to my last good calibration with service mode drives set for Medium temp setting at 6500
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post #93 of 307 Old 04-30-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post

Next up, trying to calibrate with default service menu settings from Movie mode. We may be able to get where we want to be without touching the service mode. For now my settings are back to my last good calibration with service mode drives set for Medium temp setting at 6500

LeRoyK,

This is amazing, but I am not sure that I understand very much. I had two questions:

1. I would have thought that it would be more of a control setting if you were to change the settings of each of the three modes so that they would be the same, and then measure the differences. Thus, you might use standard as your base, and take measurements (which you have done), and jot down the settings for standard. Then, change the settings for sports to the settings you just jotted down (which of course get reflected in preference mode) and take measurements. Then do the same with movie and PC modes. This way it would be more apples-to-apples and we could see what hidden changes are being made by the different modes (other then the contrast point which has been identified).

2. Why are you choosing movie mode as your starting point (although I guess the answer may be related to the first question.

Thanks for all your hard work on this.
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post #94 of 307 Old 04-30-2008, 03:35 PM
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My intent was to document the modes we get from Toshiba.

I plan to use Movie mode as a starting point because the colors are closer to target, sharpness is correct at the 50% setting and the Warm temp is the only one that can be pulled all the way to 6500 with a user setting.
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post #95 of 307 Old 04-30-2008, 03:39 PM
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I think the Display button for M menus is labeled RECALL on our remote. I have the LX177 codes programmed into my Harmony Remote, Display for the LX177 and RECALL do the same thing. The LX177 codes also include an Audio button.

But I have not been able to get to any service mode other than S. Maybe I am not holding my tongue in the right place.
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post #96 of 307 Old 04-30-2008, 05:24 PM
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Here is what I got, starting with Movie mode and service menu settings recorded by JAM2001 for his 52. This may not work well for other sizes.



I was able to align Red, Blue and Green drive pretty well using the user settings.

The brightness range is .024 flL to 33.291 ftL with a contrast ratio of 1400:1
A brightness of 33 ftL is in the well adjusted plasma panel range. It is fine for my controlled lighting room.



The results were temps near 6500 above 30% white. I need cuts for the low end.

Good luck, you may like these settings, you may like your own. In the end use the settings you like best.



All of the colors are near their targets now.

Here are the settings I changed starting in Movie Mode

Picture Settings
Contrast 97
Brightness 57

Advanced Picture Settings
Static Gamma -4
Color Temperature Warm
B Drive -11
G Drive -8

Color Master On

Green
Hue -14
Saturation -16

Yellow
Hue +8
Saturation -4

Magenta
Hue -22

Cyan
Hue -8
Saturation -13
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post #97 of 307 Old 04-30-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post

Here is what I got, starting with Movie mode and service menu settings recorded by JAM2001 for his 52. This may not work well for other sizes.



I was able to align Red, Blue and Green drive pretty well using the user settings.

The brightness range is .024 flL to 33.291 ftL with a contrast ratio of 1400:1
A brightness of 33 ftL is in the well adjusted plasma panel range. It is fine for my controlled lighting room.



The results were temps near 6500 above 30% white. I need cuts for the low end.

Good luck, you may like these settings, you may like your own. In the end use the settings you like best.



All of the colors are near their targets now.

Here are the settings I changed starting in Movie Mode

Picture Settings
Contrast 97
Brightness 57

Advanced Picture Settings
Static Gamma -4
Color Temperature Warm
B Drive -11
G Drive -8

Color Master On

Green
Hue -14
Saturation -16

Yellow
Hue +8
Saturation -4

Magenta
Hue -22

Cyan
Hue -8
Saturation -13

Leroy,

Thanks for doing this! I will test your settings with my default SM settings and see how it turns out.
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post #98 of 307 Old 05-01-2008, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post

I think the Display button for M menus is labeled RECALL on our remote. I have the LX177 codes programmed into my Harmony Remote, Display for the LX177 and RECALL do the same thing. The LX177 codes also include an Audio button.

But I have not been able to get to any service mode other than S. Maybe I am not holding my tongue in the right place.

I too couldn't get into the extra modes, trying various combinations. I suspect that some combination must work, but it isn't easy to figure out.
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post #99 of 307 Old 05-01-2008, 10:54 PM
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LeroyK,

I tested the settings that you gave me based upon your calculations and the result was similar to the previous time I used Movie mode. Perhaps my eyes need to be retrained how an accurate picture should look.

I tested the settings with Comcast Cable connected via an HDMI cable. I didn't try a DVD, but I did view a couple movie channels. Overall, I thought the picture seemed kinda dull and the flesh tones seemed to have too much color. I think that is probably due to the Warm setting. Like I said though, my eyes probably need to be retrained, but I normally prefer a more vibrant picture.

In my testing, I did notice something interesting. In the Service Menu, the COLC (color) setting on my TV while in Movie mode defaulted to "B3H". But in Standard mode, the default is "9DH". That seems to line up with what we've been saying about how the mode your start calibrating in, makes a difference.

Also, if you look in the spreadsheet, you'll see that everyone that has shared their SM settings has either "9DH" or "B3H" listed for COLC. But all of the other SM settings are different. I was hoping when I began this spreadsheet that I see a pattern with how people's SM's are setup. But that is the only consistent setting I've found.

Anyway, I think I'm going to stick with the settings that I have listed in the spreadsheet. (at least for Cable). They seem to work the best with my TV.

Thanks again for doing the calibrations. I felt like I had a personal ISF Technician looking at my TV, only it didn't cost me $300 bucks!
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post #100 of 307 Old 05-01-2008, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jam2001 View Post

LeroyK,

I tested the settings that you gave me based upon your calculations and the result was similar to the previous time I used Movie mode. Perhaps my eyes need to be retrained how an accurate picture should look.

I tested the settings with Comcast Cable connected via an HDMI cable. I didn't try a DVD, but I did view a couple movie channels. Overall, I thought the picture seemed kinda dull and the flesh tones seemed to have too much color. I think that is probably due to the Warm setting. Like I said though, my eyes probably need to be retrained, but I normally prefer a more vibrant picture.

In my testing, I did notice something interesting. In the Service Menu, the COLC (color) setting on my TV while in Movie mode defaulted to "B3H". But in Standard mode, the default is "9DH". That seems to line up with what we've been saying about how the mode your start calibrating in, makes a difference.

Also, if you look in the spreadsheet, you'll see that everyone that has shared their SM settings has either "9DH" or "B3H" listed for COLC. But all of the other SM settings are different. I was hoping when I began this spreadsheet that I see a pattern with how people's SM's are setup. But that is the only consistent setting I've found.

Anyway, I think I'm going to stick with the settings that I have listed in the spreadsheet. (at least for Cable). They seem to work the best with my TV.

Thanks again for doing the calibrations. I felt like I had a personal ISF Technician looking at my TV, only it didn't cost me $300 bucks!

i've also noticed that the COLC setting seems to change "automatically" depending on other settings entered in the service menu (and/or maybe depending on mode tv is set in). this could also explain why my default service menu COLC was different than EVERYONE else's on your spread sheet. seem odd to me, though, as i thought the service menu settings were independent of the mode or other service menu settings, but it appears that some service menu settings seem to be "aware" of what other settings are... who knows!

also, i tend to agree with you that leroy's settings are definitely less "vibrant" than the normal tv settings. i agree that our eyes might need to retrain to what a calibrated tv is supposed to look like. i would compare this experience to listening to high-end speakers or headphones...they all sound different. some headphones have more bass, mids, or treble than others. while there might be a certain "standard" as to what things should sound like, or, in our case, look like, in the end it all depends on personal prefrence. some people prefer more "bass" or "color" while others prefer things to be more natural. there really is no "right" setting or sound for anything. it's all in the eye or ear of the beholder.
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post #101 of 307 Old 05-02-2008, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jam2001 View Post

In my testing, I did notice something interesting. In the Service Menu, the COLC (color) setting on my TV while in Movie mode defaulted to "B3H". But in Standard mode, the default is "9DH".

How many steps is it down to go from 9DH to B3H? Another difference is that LeRoyK likes his backlighting set much lower then most of the rest of us, and the starting point for backlighting in movie mode is very low, if I remember correctly. Also, it is interesting that most of his individual saturation levels are signinifcant negative (perhaps because he started with warm). Too many possibilities, and preferences.
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post #102 of 307 Old 05-02-2008, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kkail View Post

How many steps is it down to go from 9DH to B3H? Another difference is that LeRoyK likes his backlighting set much lower then most of the rest of us, and the starting point for backlighting in movie mode is very low, if I remember correctly. Also, it is interesting that most of his individual saturation levels are signinifcant negative (perhaps because he started with warm). Too many possibilities, and preferences.

The backlighting for movie mode defaults at 20, which as you say is very low. I went the wrong way last night when changing my settings, so I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe that the number of steps between 9DH and B3H is pretty significant.
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post #103 of 307 Old 05-02-2008, 12:07 PM
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B3H - 9DH = 16H = 22 steps. Yes that is a whole lot. I have been experimenting with Dynamic Backlight of late. It drives the 0% screen luminance way down without affecting the 100% screen. I have been trying to catch it working, but have not seen any sudden transitions with a 40 backlight setting. I will calibrate to a 50 backlight, with Dynamic Backlight on over the weekend, and see if I can catch the dynalight working. In my light controlled room I prefer something in the 45-50 ftL range for 100% White. I am not surprised that the user settings only Movie mode did not wow anyone, it seemed a bit lifeless to me as well. Calibration is not the end all, but more of a hobby. Go with what looks best to you.
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post #104 of 307 Old 05-02-2008, 02:06 PM
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leroy, this is something i noticed a few days ago when i configured movie mode to standard mode settings. i changed ALL movie mode settings to be the same as standard settings, including having dynalight on. what i noticed was that dynalight, to me, seemed to not work as much when using movie as the base mode... i don't have any calibration equipment to confirm this, just my eyes. when changing channels on my cable box the screen will go black briefly, but the little info bar at the bottom will remain. while in standard mode with dynalight on the info bar at the bottom gets visibly darker when changing channels and the screen goes dark, then when the channel actually comes in, the info bar gets brighter again. while using movie as base mode, setting all variables the same as "standard" mode, the info bar at the bottom doesn't "dim" as much with dynalight on when the screen goes black. in summary, dynalight seems to work "more" when base mode is "standard" than it does in base mode "movie," regardless of what backlight is set to. therefore, it's much easier to "catch" it working while in standard mode. i hope that makes sense. just thought it might be something you would find interesting in your calibrations using dynalight.
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post #105 of 307 Old 05-03-2008, 09:30 AM
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Thanks corona081

I hate when I can notice the backlight change. Friday night I dialed in a Movie mode, 50 backlight with dynalight on. So far I have not been able to notice any backlight changes, but the meter reports lower black luminance with the dynalight on. I am really liking what I see. I may have a keeper here, but only time will tell. I will post my settings later if they hold.
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post #106 of 307 Old 05-08-2008, 07:04 AM
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LeRoyK,
Your knowledge in this is amazing. Even though I don't understand everything you've showed, I know enough to get the points. Thanks for taking the time to share this with the rest of the XF550 owners !
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post #107 of 307 Old 05-09-2008, 07:06 AM
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Is it impossible to find out how to get to the cut menu? I tried asking Toshiba CS and the answer I got was a nonanswer.
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post #108 of 307 Old 05-09-2008, 02:26 PM
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If looks like the COLC service menu setting is saved seperately for each mode sent to the tv. So if you find a great setting for 1080p, you will need to send a 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i signal to the XF550 and then go into service mode and match the setting. Lots of work, but it explains why when watching my 1080i DVR the saturation was different from my 1080p Blu-ray and my 480p DVD player.

Also be aware that COLC is different depending on the mode you start in. SPORT mode is higher than MOVIE mode.
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post #109 of 307 Old 05-09-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeRoyK View Post

If looks like the COLC service menu setting is saved seperately for each mode sent to the tv. So if you find a great setting for 1080p, you will need to send a 1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i signal to the XF550 and then go into service mode and match the setting. Lots of work, but it explains why when watching my 1080i DVR the saturation was different from my 1080p Blu-ray and my 480p DVD player.

Also be aware that COLC is different depending on the mode you start in. SPORT mode is higher than MOVIE mode.

wow. i knew there was something weird going on with that COLC setting in the service menu. i just didn't know what. thanks for the update
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post #110 of 307 Old 05-09-2008, 03:50 PM
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Does the COLC (Color Center?) setting (in SM) just determine what a given user menu color setting is? In other words, if I set COLC to same number (while feeding a 1080i signal) while in Standard Mode and also in Movie Mode, then a user setting of 50 (in both modes) for color saturation will look the same? (Ignoring for a moment the hidden differences of processing between starting modes.)
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post #111 of 307 Old 05-10-2008, 12:05 PM
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One more COLC note... the XF also stores a different value for Native aspect vs Natural and all of the others. So if you calibrate in Native, you will need to switch to at least Natural and store the setting you want for COLC in that aspect mode as well for all of the different resolutions you feed it. Whew lots of work.
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post #112 of 307 Old 05-10-2008, 12:14 PM
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Superdad

One of the ways to set a correct color saturation is to pick a color and measure its luminance compared to white. The recomendation is to make 100% pure Red luminance come out 21% of 100% White luminance.

So if the luminance of 100% White is different in the different modes, the luminance of 100% Red needs to track with White to maintain proper color saturation. White is brighter in Sports mode than in Standard and Standard is brighter than Movie. So the value in COLC has to change to keep the middle of the user color control about right.

For my setup, I will not be going into any of the preprogrammed modes, I will always be in preference mode, so I can set the COLC to whatever value I want. I just need to feed the TV all of my possible sources and make that same adjustment to COLC every time.
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post #113 of 307 Old 05-10-2008, 02:39 PM
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I get it now. Thanks!
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post #114 of 307 Old 05-14-2008, 08:15 AM
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I find alittle of a greenish/yellowish shadow in any faint shadows on my television. Does anyone have a suggestion for getting these out? Is this handled by the color management control?
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post #115 of 307 Old 05-14-2008, 09:35 AM
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i haven't noticed any green/yellow in shadows on my set so i can't really help. maybe try some of leroy's calibrations. if you don't want to enter the service menu, he did post some calibrations you can do from the tv's regular picture settings and colormaster controls that turn down the green saturation and adjust the hue of the yellow, among other things.

It's just a few posts up, but here's the link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13766456 I'm not sure what size you have. Leroy has the 52" and the settings in that link are for the default service menu values. it might be worth a try.
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post #116 of 307 Old 05-14-2008, 11:56 AM
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Thanks Corona - I've been using LeroyK's settings for the SM set to Medium with pretty good results, but have the greenish shadow issue. I used my Blu-ray DVE with the color filters. I tried to get the Blue and white from the test pattern in line with the blue filter using the Color Control (its now at 45) and get the Cyan and Magenta in test pattern in line with the Tint control (moved tint to +13). Then I fiddled with the Colormaster settings (I rearranged green and yellow to get them in line) and will try this as a solution. My understanding is that the greyscale needs to be set first (i.e. LeroyK's settings) before mesing with the colors. Since LeroyK's greyscale are as close to 6500K as we are going to get with the SM RB&G drives, that is what I used. Hopefully the Colormaster will correct the rest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey ra View Post

Thanks Corona - I've been using LeroyK's settings for the SM set to Medium with pretty good results, but have the greenish shadow issue. I used my Blu-ray DVE with the color filters. I tried to get the Blue and white from the test pattern in line with the blue filter using the Color Control (its now at 45) and get the Cyan and Magenta in test pattern in line with the Tint control (moved tint to +13). Then I fiddled with the Colormaster settings (I rearranged green and yellow to get them in line) and will try this as a solution. My understanding is that the greyscale needs to be set first (i.e. LeroyK's settings) before mesing with the colors. Since LeroyK's greyscale are as close to 6500K as we are going to get with the SM RB&G drives, that is what I used. Hopefully the Colormaster will correct the rest.

good luck and let us know how it goes.
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post #118 of 307 Old 05-14-2008, 04:23 PM
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So has anyone with a 40" XF550 yet done a calibration with a meter? I would dearly love to see a set of charts and settings for the 40" panel, ala what LeRoyK has bestowed upon us for the 52". Those who have read my prior posts know that I have a greyscale with green push in the midband that I just have not been able to shake with my SM drive without making other things worse--and I keep hoping that someone with a meter and s/w will be able to guide me towards happiness. (I'd buy a meter myself but there is no TV calibration s/w for Apple Mac computers.)
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post #119 of 307 Old 05-14-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdad View Post

So has anyone with a 40" XF550 yet done a calibration with a meter? I would dearly love to see a set of charts and settings for the 40" panel, ala what LeRoyK has bestowed upon us for the 52". Those who have read my prior posts know that I have a greyscale with green push in the midband that I just have not been able to shake with my SM drive without making other things worse--and I keep hoping that someone with a meter and s/w will be able to guide me towards happiness. (I'd buy a meter myself but there is no TV calibration s/w for Apple Mac computers.)

A lot of the MAC people I know run Fusion so they can run PC software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMware_Fusion
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post #120 of 307 Old 05-15-2008, 04:49 AM
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For those of you who are comfortable with going into the service menu, could you please post the factory settings for the following registers when in Movie mode.

BRTC
COLC
UVTT
CNTX

Look at them all in both Natural and Native aspect ratios. I plan to do another calibration of a stock 52" using Movie mode as a base. Getting those settings right will be important.

The settings can also vary with the input type, 1080i may be different than 1080p etc.

I would look myself, but I have been mucking with them too much to reconstruct the stock values.

Thanks,

LeRoy
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