Guide: GREYSCALE CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 258 Old 05-30-2008, 01:24 PM
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Yeah, I've posted there. I don't think it's anything unusual; ProjectorCentral's calculator says 13ftL for my screen size, but I think that is in High lamp mode and with the Iris open, and may not even be measurement after calibration.

Anyway, thanks to all for the guide and the help. I had fun doing it and now that I've got the itch to calibrate all the TVs in the house
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post #92 of 258 Old 05-30-2008, 09:19 PM
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For cburbs:



That looks alot better.....

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs... lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps? "

Sony 55EX500 Settings
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post #93 of 258 Old 05-31-2008, 09:34 AM
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This calibration guide is just what I have been looking for; I can't read French well enough to access the HCFR documentation, and even Tom Huffman's calibration guide was a little challenging. Thanks, Kal, for providing such a great service. I have one question - I just bought an Eye-One Display LT, but I also bought an AEMC CA813. I had been under the impression that one needed a light meter for grayscale adjustments, and a colorimeter for color calibration. The Dummy's guide uses only the latter for everything. Did I buy more than was needed, or is there an advantage to having both?

Kevin
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post #94 of 258 Old 05-31-2008, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin McCarthy View Post

This calibration guide is just what I have been looking for; I can't read French well enough to access the HCFR documentation, and even Tom Huffman's calibration guide was a little challenging. Thanks, Kal, for providing such a great service. I have one question - I just bought an Eye-One Display LT, but I also bought an AEMC CA813. I had been under the impression that one needed a light meter for grayscale adjustments, and a colorimeter for color calibration. The Dummy's guide uses only the latter for everything. Did I buy more than was needed, or is there an advantage to having both?

Kevin

The AEMC far more accurate that the i1 at low stimulus levels and thus can/should be used to set GAMMA...for purposes of grayscale and color ONLY THE i1 can be used as the AEMC does NOT measure indicidual colors.

HTH

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post #95 of 258 Old 05-31-2008, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Joel is correct. Tom mentions using a light meter a bit in his guide but I opted to not use one at all in mine since it's use is only limited to total light output and not individual colour output.

Since you can get 95%+ of the way there with the Eye-One (and since the guide is aimed at those new to colour calibration) I didn't think it was wise to suggest that people spend twice as much on equipment.

Kal
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post #96 of 258 Old 05-31-2008, 10:33 PM
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Thanks kal for the great guide. I've been messing around with HCFR and my Eye-One all weekend. My question is whether it is normal to have the measurements fluctuate while not adjusting anything. They don't move much, but the Y does change constantly.

Also, I may not be aiming the meter at the screen correctly as i read different amounts of RGB in 100 IRE if the sensor gets moved. I would think that only luminance would change and the RGB mix in white would remain constant.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #97 of 258 Old 06-01-2008, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Thanks kal for the great guide. I've been messing around with HCFR and my Eye-One all weekend. My question is whether it is normal to have the measurements fluctuate while not adjusting anything. They don't move much, but the Y does change constantly.

Yes, this is normal that xyY readings can / will change albeit by a minimal amount.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Also, I may not be aiming the meter at the screen correctly as i read different amounts of RGB in 100 IRE if the sensor gets moved. I would think that only luminance would change and the RGB mix in white would remain constant.

Yes, this too s normal and, in point of fact, is the reason that some applications, CalMAN being the one that use, have a "meter positioning procedure" to ensure that the meter is placed for maximum Y.

HTH

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post #98 of 258 Old 06-01-2008, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post

Yes, this too s normal and, in point of fact, is the reason that some applications, CalMAN being the one that use, have a "meter positioning procedure" to ensure that the meter is placed for maximum Y.

Correct. Which is why my guide includes such a "meter positioning procedure" as well.

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post #99 of 258 Old 06-01-2008, 01:09 PM
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Thanks guys.

I guess my question revolves around whether its best to achieve maximum Y by being square with the screen and farther away or closer to the screen but hitting at an angle so the sensor misses its shadow. I started about 3-4" from the screen with the sensor tilted up and then moved the sensor on both axes (sp?), until I achieved maximum Y. However, I can get a higher Y by moving the sensor farther from the screen and pointed closer to perpendicular. I just don't know how far from the screen I can go and still get an accurate reading.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #100 of 258 Old 06-02-2008, 01:07 PM
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Thanks for the guide; I'm new to this and it really helped.

I have two questions, and I'm not sure if this is the right thread to be asking (I'll assume no response means this is the wrong place to ask.)

1) For an LCD TV, how square does the colorimeter have to be to the TV screen? Since my TV is vertical, the sensor doesn't lie on the TV surface, and due to cord tension, it's not square with the TV either. I've been lightly pushing it against the screen to make it square and seal out ambient light (just touching it, not enough pressure to cause the screen to distort). Is this correct? Or should I just let it dangle and try to get it as close to square with the screen as I can? (The measurements do change depending on if I just let it dangle or not.)

2) Why do you use only 100% color patterns? Shouldn't we try at least the 75% patterns as well? My TV seems to have some non-linearity with the color controls, since at 75% my luminance values are all too high, but at 100%, they're nearly perfect except for blue. Which one is more important to get right?

Thanks again for all the advice here!
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post #101 of 258 Old 06-02-2008, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I guess my question revolves around whether its best to achieve maximum Y by being square with the screen and farther away or closer to the screen but hitting at an angle so the sensor misses its shadow. I started about 3-4" from the screen with the sensor tilted up and then moved the sensor on both axes (sp?), until I achieved maximum Y. However, I can get a higher Y by moving the sensor farther from the screen and pointed closer to perpendicular. I just don't know how far from the screen I can go and still get an accurate reading.

That's the beauty of this sort of positioning: You don't have to worry about having the sensor see its shadow as soon as it sees it's shadow the Y value will drop. In order words, don't worry about the shadow... just move it around to max out Y. When Y is maxed out, it won't be seeing the shadow. Simple!

Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

Thanks for the guide; I'm new to this and it really helped.

You're welcome!

Quote:


1) For an LCD TV, how square does the colorimeter have to be to the TV screen? Since my TV is vertical, the sensor doesn't lie on the TV surface, and due to cord tension, it's not square with the TV either. I've been lightly pushing it against the screen to make it square and seal out ambient light (just touching it, not enough pressure to cause the screen to distort). Is this correct?

Yup! The Eye One has little suction cups and if you're very careful a little bit of pressure on the sensor will cause it to stick to the screen slightly. You want it to be completely flat against to avoid any extra light coming in. Not so much an issue at higher IREs but may cause problems at lower IREs if you're not in a dark room.

Quote:


Or should I just let it dangle and try to get it as close to square with the screen as I can? (The measurements do change depending on if I just let it dangle or not.)

Nope. Make sure it's flat against the screen. I've updated the guide to make sure this is clear.

Quote:


2) Why do you use only 100% color patterns? Shouldn't we try at least the 75% patterns as well? My TV seems to have some non-linearity with the color controls, since at 75% my luminance values are all too high, but at 100%, they're nearly perfect except for blue. Which one is more important to get right?

I'll let some of the experts answer this one but I would probably go with making 75% more correct if you can't get both 75% and 100% correct. (More content in that range).

Kal
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post #102 of 258 Old 06-02-2008, 03:28 PM
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Although no expert the reason that 100% stimulus is used is because at this level one can check / see whether they are running out of a color...for example, at 100% stimuls the contrast may be set such thatthere is not enough red to get a prope grayscale tracking thus by setting things at 100% one can ensure that the greayscale can be accurately set throughout the entire stimulus range.

As it relates to colour calibration both are used...as such, my preference -- for a front projector -- is to ue 100% stimulus because the Y values are higher thus the process is faster and more accurate.

HTH

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post #103 of 258 Old 06-03-2008, 09:18 AM
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A couple questions from a total calibration rookie, as I'm eager to get my sensor and start tweaking.

For my 52" XBR5 LCD:

1) Do you have any backlight suggestions to start with? I know a lower backlight should give darker blacks but I also do enought viewing during the day in a dim room (curtains closed). Should I keep it on zero/min or leave it at 2 (on a scale of 10+) for all viewing (night viewing in a dark room).

2) Is there any sort of protocol for calibrating an LCD?

3) For my Oppo 981 which I have connected via HDMI and outputting 1080p, should I have the color set to SD or HD when calibrating with DVE or GetGray (I can adjust this in the XBR menu).

4) For my Xbox 360, via HDMI...would the setting for the 1080p/24 DVE Blu-ray on my PS3 be close? The only pattern I have for 360 is on the game 'FIFA 08' which has a greyscale with a pattern for brightness and contrast and a SMPTE pattern. Would regular DVE, upconverted, give me an accurate calibration for HD games?

For my 50" XBR1 SXRD:

1) For my Oppo 970 via HDMI @ 1080i, same question as #3, though I can't manually adjust the colorspace.

2) For digital cable via coaxial (no HD), how should I calibrate for this input?

3) What about a Nintendo Wii @ 480p via component. Should I set the Oppo to 480p and calibrate? Should I transfer the 1080i settings?

Sorry for the rambling questions, and I'm grateful for any help you (or others) can provide. I'm really excited about using a sensor and while I've done color filter and "by eye" calibration, I know it pales in comparison to a "by the numbers" approach.

Thanks!
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post #104 of 258 Old 06-03-2008, 10:52 AM
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JohnnytheSkin
>>Do you have any backlight suggestions to start with?

Generally the backlight is similar to the SXRD iris. You can typically set the brightness and contrast independantly and then use the backlight/iris to control the absolute light output. If you want you could take measurements with different backlight/iris settings to get a better understanding of any changes they might introduce, but for SXRD the iris setting basically just controls the absolute light output the TV will produce. Higher settings output more light and lower settings output less. As far as which compromises to make for different room lighting, that's something you'll have to decide. Higher settings will raise the top light output which might be useful with more light in the room, but it also raises black level which is probably not desirable in a darker room.


>>Is there any sort of protocol for calibrating an LCD?

I don't believe there's any mention of backlight/iris in the guide, but most everything else should be relatively similar to what's discussed regardless of LCD or SXRD. Typically with any measurements you'll first want to shut off any adusting light output controls. For example SXRD offers an adjusting iris that shouldn't be used for measurements. Instead on the SXRD you need to choose one of the fixed iris settings. The people that do this professionally have said that they use the maximum fixed settings while taking measurements on SXRD. If you take that route then you can ignore trying to obtain a certain 100% light output until the end. You can wait until the last thing to set your iris to what you consider most appropriate for your room - too low and you might not be able to make out near-black details in a room with light (assuming you set brightness for black clipping), and too high might make whites too bright in a dim room.


>>color set to SD or HD when calibrating with DVE or GetGray (I can adjust this in the XBR menu)

You could measure both TV settings and then see what results you get.


>>For my Xbox 360, via HDMI...would the setting for the 1080p/24 DVE Blu-ray on my PS3 be close?

Depends on how the consoles are set. Either console can be set for video or computer levels. If you're setting both to the same levels and using HDMI then it's possible they might be able to use the same TV settings. Video games don't seem to be as well standardized as video though so it might be useful to use non-calibrated settings for games. For example I have the brightness control set higher than normal on my Xbox because one game I play is too dark otherwise.
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post #105 of 258 Old 06-05-2008, 11:36 AM
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I have another question...both the XBR5 and the XBR1 SXRD have "Gamma" adjustments from Low to High. In order to get a flat gamma, when should I look at those settings? From default contrast and brightness, or after setting those two controls, after grayscale? Will I then have to go back and tweak the contrast and brightness again?

Thanks!
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post #106 of 258 Old 06-05-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin View Post

both the XBR5 and the XBR1 SXRD have "Gamma" adjustments from Low to High.

On the SXRD you'll probably want to leave off gamma and black corrector unless you have a specific reason you would want an unusual gamma. It's probably a good idea to set brightness (and maybe picture) first if you want to look at what controls such as gamma alter. You could make one set of measurements with the setting off and then you could make a second run with the setting on. That would allow you to compare the graphs and get a better idea what the setting does.
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post #107 of 258 Old 06-05-2008, 01:17 PM
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On most of the Sony SXRD and LCD sets, Los gamma is pretty close to 2.2.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #108 of 258 Old 06-06-2008, 08:36 AM
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I'm considering the purchase of an i1 display LT. However I own a Mac rather than a PC, so I cannot run HCFR.

Is there anyway to read the xyY data from an eye-one using a Mac?
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post #109 of 258 Old 06-06-2008, 08:44 AM
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Bootcamp
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post #110 of 258 Old 06-06-2008, 08:45 AM
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If your mac is an Intel one I'd instal widows Xp using the bootcamp program. Wondows installs on a drive partition size you set up, and you can choose how to bbot up your computer either normal mac or by holding down the alt key/option key when booting up. if you have a Gx processor you'd need virtual pc. I use my macbook(intel) and it works great.

Athanasios
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post #111 of 258 Old 06-06-2008, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tsanga View Post

Bootcamp

Pre-Intel here. Powerbook G4. I don't need all the fancy stuff. Just some way of reading the xyY values directly from the eye-one.
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post #112 of 258 Old 06-06-2008, 10:35 AM
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I'm not a mac user, but http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/06/23...r-calibration/ mentions a program called babelcolor with the i1pro.
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post #113 of 258 Old 06-06-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I'm not a mac user, but http://geekwithfamily.com/2006/06/23...r-calibration/ mentions a program called babelcolor with the i1pro.

Looks like this is exactly what I need. Thanks!!!
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post #114 of 258 Old 06-11-2008, 12:45 PM
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I just ordered the eye-one LT from Amazon and I have the Avia and DVE calibration standard verison. Avia has all the windows I need but I thought I read somewhere that they are not correct. Is this true?

The DVE has the 20,40, 60, 80, & the 100 IRE windows. What about the 10,30,50,70 for greyscale? I went throught the whole DVD trying to find them.

I also downloaded TomHuffman free calibration DVD which has what I need. Are they accurrate?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

Thanks in advance

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post #115 of 258 Old 06-11-2008, 03:53 PM
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Question regarding the initial setting of the "Color" control before going into the user menu. I think in Kal's guide it mentions setting the Color control so that red is at 21% of the white pattern. Just curious, is there any reason where you'd want to use green or blue first, then go into the CMS? I.e., adjust green to 70% and then use your CMS for red and blue, or set blue to 8%, then adjust red/green?

Tx

 

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post #116 of 258 Old 06-11-2008, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassfreak View Post

I just ordered the eye-one LT from Amazon and I have the Avia and DVE calibration standard verison. Avia has all the windows I need but I thought I read somewhere that they are not correct. Is this true?

Correct. My guide mentions that the Avia greyscale patterns are off. You can get around it by reducing colour saturation to zero (not easy on most sources other than HTPCs) or by disconnecting the correct component cable (I forget which).

Quote:


The DVE has the 20,40, 60, 80, & the 100 IRE windows. What about the 10,30,50,70 for greyscale? I went throught the whole DVD trying to find them.

Some discs only give some of the patterns unfortunately.

Quote:


I also downloaded TomHuffman free calibration DVD which has what I need. Are they accurrate?

Yup. AVS HD 709 is also a good choice (for free). I use it later in my guide for measure primaries/secondaries.

Kal
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post #117 of 258 Old 06-11-2008, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Question regarding the initial setting of the "Color" control before going into the user menu. I think in Kal's guide it mentions setting the Color control so that red is at 21% of the white pattern. Just curious, is there any reason where you'd want to use green or blue first, then go into the CMS? I.e., adjust green to 70% and then use your CMS for red and blue, or set blue to 8%, then adjust red/green?

Not sure why red is typically used first. Maybe some of the calibration experts want to chime in....

Kal
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post #118 of 258 Old 06-11-2008, 07:02 PM
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Thanks for putting this guide together, kal, I really appreciate it! I ordered an Eye-One Display LT from Amazon last night, and I'm looking forward to stepping through the guide. It's exactly what I've been looking for.

Thanks again!
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post #119 of 258 Old 06-11-2008, 07:54 PM
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Thanks Kal

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post #120 of 258 Old 06-12-2008, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Not sure why red is typically used first. Maybe some of the calibration experts want to chime in....

Kal

Not a expert but I think red runs out of gain first and others need to be adjusted to it.
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