Sharing display menu settings? - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 223 Old 07-21-2009, 06:09 PM
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I did post to D_NICE in the G10 plasma thread George. I think using someone elses good settings as a start can usually get you in the ball park, especially if they give you their original settings. It is wise to write down everything in the menu before you start to change anything and to use a calibration dvd too in order to fine tune things after using the copied setting advances as a starting point.

Unfortunately many of the poorer consumers, like me, are already way past what we should probably be spending when we buy a modern TV so we can't easily afford a professional to come in and tune it properly for us.

I hope the manufacturers can one day make TV sets that are really true to the media they are ideally made to faithfully reproduce, right out of the box.

Perhaps better burn in and quality control procedures would help?

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post #212 of 223 Old 07-21-2009, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I understand your position completely. If you believe swapping settings is of value to you, go right ahead. The purpose of this thread is to inform practitioners of the methodology that the place to engage in this activity is best done in the threads dedicated to specific makes and models of their display device. This thread is also an attempt to dispel the misunderstanding that swapping settings is a substitute for genuine display calibration. Such practice has no place in this section of the forum. If it is encouraged, only confusion will result, as well as unrealistic expectations, and the unwanted burden of inappropriate thread traffic.

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post #213 of 223 Old 07-22-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tblewy View Post

I think using someone elses good settings as a start can usually get you in the ball park, especially if they give you their original settings.

Well, you can "think" this all you like if it makes you feel better... but the reality is... shared settings are a complete crap-shoot. AND using offsets to alter your settings are equal crap-shoots. Some people put a quarter in a slot machine and win 100 quarters. Most don't win anything. You have about the same odds when sharing settings directly or via offsets. Displays and electronics don't work the way you think they do. If every panel was identical, every circuit board was identical, and every power supply was identical, you're vision would have some basis in reality. However... panels are not identical, circuit boards are not identical, power supplies are not identical... everything has tolerances that allow them to be made economically for the consumer electronics market. Making each subassembly identical would cause a $2000 display to sell for $8000 or more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tblewy View Post

Unfortunately many of the poorer consumers, like me, are already way past what we should probably be spending when we buy a modern TV so we can't easily afford a professional to come in and tune it properly for us.

I suspect most of us have been in your position at some point. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts to better video.

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Originally Posted by tblewy View Post

I hope the manufacturers can one day make TV sets that are really true to the media they are ideally made to faithfully reproduce, right out of the box.

Joe Kane's Samsung projectors meet your requirements... they sell for $7500 or $10,000. What you want doesn't translate to consumer-priced products. The main obstacle is TIME - because reasonably priced sub-assemblies have tolerances, every combination of parts produces a different "TV" - to make them accurate takes TIME... HOURS of time. If those hours happen on the assembly line, the retail price goes up... period. Your $2000 display could easily end up being priced at $2800 for just 2 hours of calibration time in manufacturing. Nothing is free.

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Originally Posted by tblewy View Post

Perhaps better burn in and quality control procedures would help?

Only if you are willing to PAY MORE to get them. Remember, all the manufacturers are competing to sell as many video displays as possible and that means lowest possible prices - but they still need to be able to cover their costs and make a little profit, otherwise, why bother being in business? Everything you want costs money, one way or another. Frankly, a $2000 display with a $300 pro calibration is the LEAST expensive way to get what you want (or a $1000 display with a $300 pro calibration... because the $1000 display would still need 2 hours of attention in manufacturing to make it accurate so it would become an $1800 display). Sure, they only pay the assembly tech $20 an hour or whatever, but the 2 hours that tech spends is 2 hours that could have been put towards building more TVs so there are MANY costs of manufacturing associated with taking more time with each display, not just the hourly rate for the tech - plus the inevitable retail markup.

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post #214 of 223 Old 07-22-2009, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I was looking at product info on a Grade 1 LCD broadcast monitor recently. It was around 20" diagonal, still should be calibrated after installation, had no tuner, and was priced around $7,000.00.
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post #215 of 223 Old 07-23-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Well, you can "think" this all you like if it makes you feel better... but the reality is... shared settings are a complete crap-shoot. AND using offsets to alter your settings are equal crap-shoots. Some people put a quarter in a slot machine and win 100 quarters. Most don't win anything. You have about the same odds when sharing settings directly or via offsets. Displays and electronics don't work the way you think they do. If every panel was identical, every circuit board was identical, and every power supply was identical, you're vision would have some basis in reality. However... panels are not identical, circuit boards are not identical, power supplies are not identical... everything has tolerances that allow them to be made economically for the consumer electronics market. Making each subassembly identical would cause a $2000 display to sell for $8000 or more.



I suspect most of us have been in your position at some point. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts to better video.



Joe Kane's Samsung projectors meet your requirements... they sell for $7500 or $10,000. What you want doesn't translate to consumer-priced products. The main obstacle is TIME - because reasonably priced sub-assemblies have tolerances, every combination of parts produces a different "TV" - to make them accurate takes TIME... HOURS of time. If those hours happen on the assembly line, the retail price goes up... period. Your $2000 display could easily end up being priced at $2800 for just 2 hours of calibration time in manufacturing. Nothing is free.



Only if you are willing to PAY MORE to get them. Remember, all the manufacturers are competing to sell as many video displays as possible and that means lowest possible prices - but they still need to be able to cover their costs and make a little profit, otherwise, why bother being in business? Everything you want costs money, one way or another. Frankly, a $2000 display with a $300 pro calibration is the LEAST expensive way to get what you want (or a $1000 display with a $300 pro calibration... because the $1000 display would still need 2 hours of attention in manufacturing to make it accurate so it would become an $1800 display). Sure, they only pay the assembly tech $20 an hour or whatever, but the 2 hours that tech spends is 2 hours that could have been put towards building more TVs so there are MANY costs of manufacturing associated with taking more time with each display, not just the hourly rate for the tech - plus the inevitable retail markup.

Doug, I second all of the above. Most of Us have heard of Monday & Friday Vehicels on assembley line. They always said get one built on Wed. This is also how they say the Antique Vehicels was done better than on the factory line. It was done to perfection. A custom calibration on Your set in Your Home is the same & = the Best. Each set is not the same. Factory settings is to sell the TV at show room.
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post #216 of 223 Old 08-25-2009, 07:58 PM
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just buy a thx certified tv! problem solved.
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post #217 of 223 Old 08-25-2009, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Close, but no cigar (not yet fully calibrated- you must consider associated signal source devices and the viewing environment). Genuine calibration must be understood in light of a total system approach. Display calibration is only part of the story. A complete calibration service takes into account every component in the system, including the room conditions.
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post #218 of 223 Old 08-28-2009, 06:35 PM
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Hi
...maybe the better solution for all is that in future more display screens have an advanced setting panel that is accessible for ALL the users easily (only maybe with a warning screen) with ALL the settings for the display that are involved in the calibration of the screen itself, so IF someone want to call a certified expert he can call and IF he want to try calibrate itself he can.
Now, and day after day the situation get worse, many people with the "help" of the manufacturers start to think that it's a lot better for their business if someone is "forced" to call someone else...and so we have the situation of useful settings not displayed in the menu of the screen, some many simple calibration settings hidden in unaccessible service menus, the codes for access these menus are more often not easy to obtain (probably for someone it's a lot better if they are not public), and so on...
If I think that everyone as the right to have all the settings for regulate an object, then if he doesn't want to do it (or don't have time) he can call someone else...another story it's to be forced to call someone else to raise a bar or push a button.The screen don't explode if someone try a bad setting on a gamma bar or try a setting on a secondary color for example and also these are only calibration settings they are not for repairing the display screen so I think they must be accessible to the owners of the the display screen like the more common (for now ) brightness or contrast.

Just a "different" point of view by an owner-user and not by a worker in the field
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post #219 of 223 Old 08-28-2009, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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You can try taking it up with the manufacturers. Some make service menus unavailable to the casual user and the untrained in order to limit warranty claims.
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post #220 of 223 Old 08-29-2009, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVMaster19 View Post

Hi
...maybe the better solution for all is that in future more display screens have an advanced setting panel that is accessible for ALL the users easily (only maybe with a warning screen) with ALL the settings for the display that are involved in the calibration of the screen itself, so IF someone want to call a certified expert he can call and IF he want to try calibrate itself he can.
Now, and day after day the situation get worse, many people with the "help" of the manufacturers start to think that it's a lot better for their business if someone is "forced" to call someone else...and so we have the situation of useful settings not displayed in the menu of the screen, some many simple calibration settings hidden in unaccessible service menus, the codes for access these menus are more often not easy to obtain (probably for someone it's a lot better if they are not public), and so on...
If I think that everyone as the right to have all the settings for regulate an object, then if he doesn't want to do it (or don't have time) he can call someone else...another story it's to be forced to call someone else to raise a bar or push a button.The screen don't explode if someone try a bad setting on a gamma bar or try a setting on a secondary color for example and also these are only calibration settings they are not for repairing the display screen so I think they must be accessible to the owners of the the display screen like the more common (for now ) brightness or contrast.

Just a "different" point of view by an owner-user and not by a worker in the field


Actually, this is exactly what is happening. More vendors have more settings in user accessible menus than ever before. Calibration often does NOT require access to service level menus these days.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area: http://www.tvrepairpros.com/
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post #221 of 223 Old 09-01-2009, 06:00 AM
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Where's the professional UN55B7000 Calibration share settings?. All i see is opinionated talk but no settings share.
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post #222 of 223 Old 09-01-2009, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Please read the opening post of this thread.
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post #223 of 223 Old 09-01-2009, 09:36 AM
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Closed at OP's request.

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