Can one "calibrate" to a different color standard than D65? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 97 Old 07-29-2013, 02:43 PM
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Greetings

Peter, the video series that you subscribe to already answers this question for you. smile.gif Video #8

As well as this article.

All based on the mantra ... "The marketing of a TV set has nothing to do with providing accurate images; it has everything to do with selling more TVs."


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post #62 of 97 Old 07-29-2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I think the point here as Doug mentioned earlier was that higher color temperatures don't produce a higher contrast image than that of a display properly calibrated to D65, since color temperature and contrast ratio are not related. So, 'higher contrast image' was just referring to what other poster was talking about (higher color temperature image to be exact).

Yes, that too, of course.

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post #63 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

Peter, the video series that you subscribe to already answers this question for you. smile.gif Video #8

As well as this article.

All based on the mantra ... "The marketing of a TV set has nothing to do with providing accurate images; it has everything to do with selling more TVs."


Regards

Thanks Michael,

Perhaps my previous comments have been flavoured by my experiences calibrating my new TV.
It is a Sharp Aqueous LC-60LE651K which is an Edge Lit LED LCD which does not have a CMS.

Out of the box it is in display mode (very high color temp) and changing it to home mode still gives a 100% white temperature approaching 8K.
Gamma varied from 1.8 in an 'S' shape up to 2.7 with massive dE values at many of the stimulus percentage points.
Colors (apart from green) were equally inaccurate despite the single Colour control being accurately set.
Brightness and Contrast were close but Brightness control is too coarse.

Calibrating via my Duo using both Calman and Chromapure was easy giving excellent results in both cases (I use a gamma of 2.2).

The difference in PQ is alarming (I can use Duo bypass to view original state).

This is now such a good panel (according to both my softwares and my eyes).

Having produced a panel that can give such excellent results it seems that Sharp have been determined to make the panel as far away from its capabilities as they can.

Such a shame, I'm sure Sharp are not alone in this respect but perhaps the Display manufacturers are right and accurate calibration is just a state of mind that makes us feel smug.

Maybe we should consider changing our standards to the higher standards the manufacturers think we like?
After all, probably more than 90% of the viewing population seems to prefer it if the Display manufacturers are to be believed?
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post #64 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

I read somewhere?
On another forum?
My thoughts?
Perhaps?
You're being too vague. Please provide specifics. Don't you think pro monitor manufacturers would have financial/marketing reasons for how they conduct their business? Have you considered that there might be practical technical reasons why a display would not be completely calibrated until it is sold and installed in a specific system?

Here is the 'somewhere' and its 'forum', see post #240 particularly the last sentence :

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hdtv-video-displays-processors/59276-darbee-visual-presence-darblet-23.html

The post writer is a person whose opinions I continue to respect..
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post #65 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Here is the 'somewhere' and its 'forum', see post #240 particularly the last sentence :

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hdtv-video-displays-processors/59276-darbee-visual-presence-darblet-23.html

The post writer is a person whose opinions I continue to respect..

The Dolby monitor is calibrated out of the box, whether it's a good enough calibration might be a different question. SpectraCal has relations with many of the pro-grade monitor manufacturers and I can assure you that shipping calibrated monitors is definitely a value add feature in that market. You can even get relatively affordable PC Monitors from dell or asus that have a calibration and a calibration certificate.

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post #66 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

The Dolby monitor is calibrated out of the box, whether it's a good enough calibration might be a different question. SpectraCal has relations with many of the pro-grade monitor manufacturers and I can assure you that shipping calibrated monitors is definitely a value add feature in that market. You can even get relatively affordable PC Monitors from dell or asus that have a calibration and a calibration certificate.

Thanks Joel,

As you know I am totally ignorant concerning most Displays irrespective of their cost.
I promised to find the reference for my general comments on the post and that is what I have done for GeorgeAB.
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post #67 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

I read somewhere?
On another forum?
My thoughts?
Perhaps?
You're being too vague. Please provide specifics. Don't you think pro monitor manufacturers would have financial/marketing reasons for how they conduct their business? Have you considered that there might be practical technical reasons why a display would not be completely calibrated until it is sold and installed in a specific system?

Here is the 'somewhere' and its 'forum', see post #240 particularly the last sentence :

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hdtv-video-displays-processors/59276-darbee-visual-presence-darblet-23.html

The post writer is a person whose opinions I continue to respect..
Thanks for providing the extra detail. The Dolby Professional Reference Monitor must be implemented in a total system to be useful and also verified that functions and characteristics are to spec. Here is a pertinent article: http://library.creativecow.net/kaufman_debra/NAB_2012-Dolby/1 . All monitors and televisions are aligned from the factory in varying degrees of completeness. Manufacturers have gotten better in the digital age at presenting a reasonably watchable picture out of the box. Adjustments still need to be made to fit specific applications and environments.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
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A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #68 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 11:59 AM
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Dolby personnel are calibrating their Professional Reference Monitor at the client's enviroment (and for their needs) with Dolby's field calibration service.

This service is being included in the price, at least for each of the clients who I have spoken to. Service contracts are available for ongoing support including for this service.


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post #69 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 08:59 PM
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And as said many times before, you connect a calibrated video display, let's say an absolutely PERFECT video display, to any given computer system, pro or consumer, and there is zero guarantee you will be viewing calibrated images. You would then have to either "de-perfect" the perfectly calibrated monitor to make the images correct, or you would have to leave the perfect monitor alone and calibrate the computer video system. Which is eminently do-able with better computer video systems. BUT, all it takes is a firmware update for the computer video system to change the output results. Joe Kane went through this with a major video board manufacturer... worked with them for quite some time to get their board to the point it could be calibrated perfectly (well... pretty perfectly), everybody was happy with the results and 6 or 9 months later when a firmware update was required for the board, installing it essentially undid everything they had done and it was a matter of having to start over from scratch.

So places that do this sort of work have to be incredibly diligent at keeping the system in perfect calibration all the time, including after operating system updates, firmware updates, production software updates, video display updates (if any), and on and on. It is NOT an easy peasy plug and play world. We have it a bit easier at home as long as we aren't using a PC as the video source since dedicated home theater products tend to have hard-coded video systems that are "immune" to changes from firmware updates and such... of course many of them have adjustments that allow you to output TERRIBLE video if you are determined to do that. But keeping the bad controls "off" generally produces some decent results... except for TVs of course and we all know they are all over the place.

And calibrating video displays in a production environment would be the death of every video display manufacturer. That $1500 TV you might spend your money on today would likely cost $2500-$3000 if it was calibrated by the manufacturer. Because they simply CANNOT calibrate Serial Number 1 and copy all the settings into serial numbers 2-25,000 because 2-25,000 will not measure right. This is because electronic components that are acceptably priced for comsumer TVs have a tolerance of +/- 10%. That means every TV is different and every TV would need a different and custom calibration. That would take a lot of time, though over time, some of it could be automated, automation doesn't always produce good results as people are finding out with auto-calibration software. Besides that, the general public who buy 99% of the TVs sold are CLUELESS about accurate video images and could care less if a video display is accurate or not. They have a $1500 budget (or whatever amount) and they will NOT pay $1600 for a calibrated version of the same TV even if it was offered.
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post #70 of 97 Old 07-30-2013, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Besides that, the general public who buy 99% of the TVs sold are CLUELESS about accurate video images and could care less if a video display is accurate or not. They have a $1500 budget (or whatever amount) and they will NOT pay $1600 for a calibrated version of the same TV even if it was offered.

That is starting to change a bit. We do now see companies like Asus and Dell offering monitors like the PA248Q, Dell U3014 and U2413, and even the older U2410 that are all factory calibrated. How good of a calibration could be debatable, but in general the reviews on places like Anandtech are bearing out that these displays are very good out of the box. The typically command a 20-30% premium over similar but uncalibrated monitor. The question is will TV makers follow suit. Projectors will always need calibration in the environment.

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post #71 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post


... except for TVs of course and we all know they are all over the place.

And calibrating video displays in a production environment would be the death of every video display manufacturer. That $1500 TV you might spend your money on today would likely cost $2500-$3000 if it was calibrated by the manufacturer. Because they simply CANNOT calibrate Serial Number 1 and copy all the settings into serial numbers 2-25,000 because 2-25,000 will not measure right. This is because electronic components that are acceptably priced for comsumer TVs have a tolerance of +/- 10%. That means every TV is different and every TV would need a different and custom calibration. That would take a lot of time, though over time, some of it could be automated, automation doesn't always produce good results as people are finding out with auto-calibration software. Besides that, the general public who buy 99% of the TVs sold are CLUELESS about accurate video images and could care less if a video display is accurate or not. They have a $1500 budget (or whatever amount) and they will NOT pay $1600 for a calibrated version of the same TV even if it was offered.

Thanks very much Doug for the full post, it confirms my worst fears about TV manufacturers.

I suppose I should be pleased that at least my set is different than most others and probably somewhere near correct to its intended inputs.

However your component tolerance of +/- 10% raises the point that with our meters getting more and more accurate, why have such accuracy if the assembly we are testing is likely to fluctuate in output?
Todays super accuracy will surely not be maintained tomorrow by this TV made up of components that have errors built into them.

Our best efforts at calibration are likely to be frustrated if the assembly we are measuring is a moving target?

Perhaps the TV manufacturers realise this more than anyone and stay away from calibration simply because it will give them a standard that they know they cannot maintain?
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post #72 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 08:38 AM
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Greetings

The parts tolerance issue one comes in at a production line level. Unless you are running such a line in your home, it is a non-issue since you only have one TV and that is all you are concerned with. You calibrate it and it stays calibrated ... (aside from drift). It's not practical to calibrate 100,000 displays coming off a line.

It is applicable to people in the copying settings game ...

I had heard an industry number of 31 sec. spent calibrating a TV off an assembly line used by one major TV company. Any more time on the line drives up the cost of the TV.

Years ago, there was a story out of RCA with respect to their 34" CRT 16:9 TV that sold for $4999 ... (I had one of those behemoths) and the TV had a lousy line doubler control in it. It cost $5 or so on the production end. A much much better one was available for $8-$10, but they could not do it because it would drive the cost of the TV above the $4999 target to $5050. So it was left out and the rest is history.

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post #73 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Thanks very much Doug for the full post, it confirms my worst fears about TV manufacturers.

Our best efforts at calibration are likely to be frustrated if the assembly we are measuring is a moving target?


You're way over thinking this.

Manufacturers of consumer TVs don't spend money on calibration because calibration as a feature doesn't make money and doesn't provide a competitive advantage. Manufacturers of semi-pro or color critical monitors calibrate at the factory because it does add value and does make money. Any factory calibration won't be quite as good as an installed because of things like using the exact target luminance you want.

The drift in most displays is very stable, it takes months before any drift would accumulate into visible error. A TV that was calibrated a year ago would still be much closer than an out of the box uncalibrated display.

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post #74 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 09:12 AM
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Talking about being nice here. I boost the blue way up to compensate for one of my eyes having a cateract with a high yellow filtering component. Both eyes combined giving me close to Rec 709 with a d 65. I know all you guys approve of what I did. smile.gif

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post #75 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 09:38 AM
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Hi Michael,

I agree that my TV is likely to have the characteristics of all of its component parts so will most likely be unique but my worry is that we then assume its output will remain constant.

Can we really assume that any assembly that uses components that vary +/- 10% is likely to give a constant output?
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post #76 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 09:59 AM
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Greetings

And the answer is ... yes ... maybe. Plasma TVs ... I am now returning to some Pioneer and Panasonic plasma units done 3 years ago ... and finding little to no drift at all. The consistency exists ... but it also depends on the display technology. LED projectors drift a whole bunch as they age ... and the UHP bulb ones are more stable and steady.

LCD/LED sets drift a lot more than the non-drift found in plasma sets.

My d65 bias light behind the TV is now closer to 5500K after 5000 hours of use ...

It appears the LED/CCFL stuff drifts more ... but then nothing is forever.

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post #77 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Can we really assume that any assembly that uses components that vary +/- 10% is likely to give a constant output?

Every display is different made with different components, no answer will every be complete or accurate for every display, so you'll have to take our word for it. Modern displays are relatively stable for the most part.

Doug pulled that +- 10% number out of thin air to illustrate the problem.


Displays can be calibrated.
Calibrated displays will stay relatively calibrated for months if not years for consumer purposes.
You cannot copy the settings from one TV to another and get the calibrated image.
This means to produce a display that is calibrated, the display must be individually calibrated.
Individual calibration adds enough expense to production, that it must be demanded as a feature and paid for by the end user.
Only pro-sumer and color critical displays have demand for calibration as a feature.

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post #78 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

That is starting to change a bit. We do now see companies like Asus and Dell offering monitors like the PA248Q, Dell U3014 and U2413, and even the older U2410 that are all factory calibrated. How good of a calibration could be debatable, but in general the reviews on places like Anandtech are bearing out that these displays are very good out of the box. The typically command a 20-30% premium over similar but uncalibrated monitor. The question is will TV makers follow suit. Projectors will always need calibration in the environment.
I'll let you know what I find. I'm calibrating a Dell U3011 today.

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post #79 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 11:15 AM
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Years ago, there was a story out of RCA with respect to their 34" CRT 16:9 TV that sold for $4999 ... (I had one of those behemoths) and the TV had a lousy line doubler control in it. It cost $5 or so on the production end. A much much better one was available for $8-$10, but they could not do it because it would drive the cost of the TV above the $4999 target to $5050. So it was left out and the rest is history.

So that explains why a certain CE manufacture decided we didn't really need an REC709 color decoder in a set marketed as 1080i "Fully HD-Ready!" smile.gif ... That thing drove me nuts for years, (Where's all this blue coming from in 1080i mode??? --- I've re-checked the greyscale 3 times! --- SMPTE Bars + Grey Ref looks perfect! ) --- The answer: I didn't have access to a 1080i/720p REC709 encoded SMPTE chart, and made the erroneous assumption that Color/Tint settings from the 540p mode would carry through to 1080i mode ... I wasn't until I got a BD player and DVE:HD Basics that I figured out what was really going on ... and that it wasn't just a simple greyscale or Color/Tint control issue. So, at that point it was either spend another $1100 on a EOL'ed Lumagen model to properly twist REC709 back to REC601 or re-engineer my $15 RF attenuator to "adjust" the Cb component level to something that looked reasonably close on the SMPTE chart ... You can probably guess which option I went with. wink.gif

PS: In my defense, I can only say that I had the set for a number of years before BD a/o HD-DVD were brought to market ... and actual HD content was limited to maybe 4 channels on D*, broadcast HDTV was still mostly up-converted SD and what HD was available was always subject to the master-control operator's ability to remember that there was actually an HD feed available for any given program. ... Ah .... good times .... biggrin.gif
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post #80 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Hi Michael,

I agree that my TV is likely to have the characteristics of all of its component parts so will most likely be unique but my worry is that we then assume its output will remain constant.

Can we really assume that any assembly that uses components that vary +/- 10% is likely to give a constant output?
It sounds like you may be thinking a +/- 10% tolerance figure means that the performance characteristics swing from one end of the range to the other at any given moment or over any given span of time. It simply means that a bin of capacitors will include individual part samples that will not deviate in value beyond the stated tolerance, as an example.

Military spec and aerospace grade components have much tighter tolerances, and therefore cost more. They are typically more reliable, stable, and durable than consumer electronics. Some prototype circuit designs, hand-built reference instruments, or high-end audiophile components ( like Boulder Amplifier Company's $35,000.00 phono preamp), will use hand-selected, sorted, and matched components that may have 0% deviation from spec. Devices resulting from manufacturing on automated assembly lines should not be compared to hand-built, close tolerance devices (either in performance or cost).

Unfortunately, many consumers have no concept of such issues. They assume too much out of ignorance of the details. Most wouldn't sit still very long, even if you took the time to explain the details, before their eyes would glaze over and become distracted. These types of consumers frequently become irate at the thought that their $500.00 TV would not be fully calibrated out of the box.
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post #81 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

It sounds like you may be thinking a +/- 10% tolerance figure means that the performance characteristics swing from one end of the range to the other at any given moment or over any given span of time. It simply means that a bin of capacitors will include individual part samples that will not deviate in value beyond the stated tolerance, as an example.

Military spec and aerospace grade components have much tighter tolerances, and therefore cost more. They are typically more reliable, stable, and durable than consumer electronics. Some prototype circuit designs, hand-built reference instruments, or high-end audiophile components ( like Boulder Amplifier Company's $35,000.00 phono preamp), will use hand-selected, sorted, and matched components that may have 0% deviation from spec. Devices resulting from manufacturing on automated assembly lines should not be compared to hand-built, close tolerance devices (either in performance or cost).

Unfortunately, many consumers have no concept of such issues. They assume too much out of ignorance of the details. Most wouldn't sit still very long, even if you took the time to explain the details, before their eyes would glaze over and become distracted. These types of consumers frequently become irate at the thought that their $500.00 TV would not be fully calibrated out of the box.

I was thinking exactly like your first sentence. So the components will always output the same value but that value is skewed somewhere between its tolerance?

The components are made into an assembly which then outputs a constant which has all the component variables giving a skewed but constant output?
This is then ready for calibration to constant accuracy.

Is that a fair assessment of the process ?.

Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding this process.
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post #82 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

It sounds like you may be thinking a +/- 10% tolerance figure means that the performance characteristics swing from one end of the range to the other at any given moment or over any given span of time. It simply means that a bin of capacitors will include individual part samples that will not deviate in value beyond the stated tolerance, as an example.

Military spec and aerospace grade components have much tighter tolerances, and therefore cost more. They are typically more reliable, stable, and durable than consumer electronics. Some prototype circuit designs, hand-built reference instruments, or high-end audiophile components ( like Boulder Amplifier Company's $35,000.00 phono preamp), will use hand-selected, sorted, and matched components that may have 0% deviation from spec. Devices resulting from manufacturing on automated assembly lines should not be compared to hand-built, close tolerance devices (either in performance or cost).

Unfortunately, many consumers have no concept of such issues. They assume too much out of ignorance of the details. Most wouldn't sit still very long, even if you took the time to explain the details, before their eyes would glaze over and become distracted. These types of consumers frequently become irate at the thought that their $500.00 TV would not be fully calibrated out of the box.

I was thinking exactly like your first sentence. So the components will always output the same value but that value is skewed somewhere between its tolerance?

The components are made into an assembly which then outputs a constant which has all the component variables giving a skewed but constant output?
This is then ready for calibration to constant accuracy.

Is that a fair assessment of the process ?.

Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding this process.
That's pretty much it. There are features in many circuit designs that allow for final compensation for non-linearity of values within the circuit. With TVs, examples include the well known picture controls of color/tint/brightness/contrast/sharpness/etc. The service menu adjustments are even closer to the fundamental circuit-level compensations I describe. When generic boards are replaced in a repair, technicians may use protected service menus and special instruments to match the new board to the rest of that individual device's characteristics. Some boards may be able to simply be swapped, but others must be tested and adjusted in the device upon installation.
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post #83 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I was thinking exactly like your first sentence. So the components will always output the same value but that value is skewed somewhere between its tolerance?

The components are made into an assembly which then outputs a constant which has all the component variables giving a skewed but constant output?
This is then ready for calibration to constant accuracy.

Is that a fair assessment of the process ?.

Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding this process.

Yes. As an example, there are 100s, maybe even more than 1000 resistors in a contemporary TV. When a manufacturer purchases a 100 ohm resistor, they can purchase 100 ohm resistors with +/- 10% tolerance for a penny each. But if they want +/- 1% tolerance, they might pay a dollar for each resistor. And if they want a resistor that is PRECISELY 100 ohms every time it is used, those might cost $10 each.

Your low-cost +/- 10% resistor tolerance means you will get resistors that vary between 90 ohms to as high as 110 ohms. If you can make that work in your product, obviously, you save a TON of money on the parts used to build the product. If there are 125 of those 100 ohm resistors in a particular TV, they are all going to have a slightly different measured resistance. You might have 3 that measure 91 ohms and 10 that measure 93.5 ohms and 20 that measure 98 ohms, etc. Because the resistors have different values, you have to design your circuits so that you aren't completely messed up if the resistance varies a bit. And with every part having that kind of tolerance, you have to make every part of every circuit tolerant of variations in the components. Each of the 25,000 production (a guess) of a specific model could have a completely uniqiue set of actual component values. That means every TV is essentially unique. Which is why sharing settings among owners of a specific brand/model doesn't usually work very well. You might get some agreement at times, but there's undoubtedly going to be a range of several clicks on several settings that are going to make a fair bit of difference in how the TV ultimately looks. Calibration has the same issue... copying 1 calibration to the entire production run won't result in calibrated TVs... in fact, they may not even be particularly close... some will be good, many, probably most, won't be too great.

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post #84 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 03:18 PM
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I've read the warmest settings on tvs are sometimes around 5500.Mine looked quite red.Not sure if that's the best thing when the abl is activating as much as it does on ths tv.sam51pne450
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post #85 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 03:59 PM
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I've read the warmest settings on tvs are sometimes around 5500.Mine looked quite red.Not sure if that's the best thing when the abl is activating as much as it does on ths tv.sam51pne450
Do you have a question?
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post #86 of 97 Old 07-31-2013, 10:58 PM
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I've asked questions but they're often not answered.Sometimes they are.Without a meter here I'm talking a different language than most except Doug B
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post #87 of 97 Old 08-01-2013, 12:42 AM
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I've asked questions but they're often not answered.Sometimes they are.Without a meter here I'm talking a different language than most except Doug B

I think it is difficult for experts in their field to be interested in what to their eyes is basics. When they reply they often use language that assumes a knowledge of video terminology (because they work with similar knowledgeable people on a daily basis).

Having absolutely no grounding in video science my learning curve continues because my elementary education in these subjects is often lacking so I continue to make fundamental mistakes (this is with a meter so without a meter must be really hard for you).

This is sometimes ignored, ridiculed, referred to 'stickies' or answered in full.
So any answers I get will follow the style of the person who replies. Unfortunately you will have to decide who the real experts are because often, like me they base their answers on basic errors.

As I was once told a mistake is evidence someone tried to do something. Continuing to make that mistake is lack of intelligence.

Incidentally, many thanks to Joel, Michael, Alan and Doug for furthering my education regarding my most recent misunderstanding of the video process. Unfortunately there will be many more examples of my errors.
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post #88 of 97 Old 08-01-2013, 07:51 AM
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Greetings

Sometimes, we grow tired of answering certain peoples questions when it becomes apparent that the people that ask the questions are not actually interested in hearing the answers at all. Or they just keep asking until someone tells them what they want to hear. frown.gif

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Michael Chen @ The Laser Video Experience
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The Video Calibration Education Hub - www.TLVEXP.com

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post #89 of 97 Old 08-01-2013, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Yes. As an example, there are 100s, maybe even more than 1000 resistors in a contemporary TV. When a manufacturer purchases a 100 ohm resistor, they can purchase 100 ohm resistors with +/- 10% tolerance for a penny each. But if they want +/- 1% tolerance, they might pay a dollar for each resistor. And if they want a resistor that is PRECISELY 100 ohms every time it is used, those might cost $10 each........
I have to wonder what impact component tolerances have in a totally "digital" TV, where even the adjustments are done computationally. After all, the "1' s and "0"s stay perfect(!) from input to output and we all know computers are unaffected (short of failures) by tolerances.
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post #90 of 97 Old 08-01-2013, 12:23 PM
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I have to wonder what impact component tolerances have in a totally "digital" TV, where even the adjustments are done computationally. After all, the "1' s and "0"s stay perfect(!) from input to output and we all know computers are unaffected (short of failures) by tolerances.

Everything ultimately winds up as a analog voltage (even if it's presented in "discrete" digital steps) ... except perhaps for DLP ... and then you've still have analog-ish color-wheel speeds and indexes to deal with ... and I suspect even the tiny little mirrors may have "tolerances" wrt to how far they twist and for how long they twist. Then you've got UHP lamps ... etc., etc., ...

Then again, this is another one of those topics that I might have to chew on for a while to make sure I'm not missing anything. wink.gif
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