The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 5750 Old 02-14-2010, 08:19 AM
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Tom,

My LG BD390 seriously clips whites. The S&M clipping pattern does not show any windows on white, but strangely does show windows on the RGB patterns. Changes in the BD390 user settings for contrast do not alter that.
The Panasonic BD60 on the other hand does show the windows on white although a one click decrement in contrast is helpful.

Both players directly connected to HDMI 4 on an LG 55LH90.

What would you say to using the Panasonic S97 with the ChromaPure pattern disk for calibration with ChromaPure and the C5.
In the old thread on the S97 it was verified that this player will switch to Rec709 when driving an HDTV.

DVD Shoutout results:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=6&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0#PanasonicDVD-S97%20(HDMI)

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post #272 of 5750 Old 02-14-2010, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

What would you say to using the Panasonic S97 with the ChromaPure pattern disk for calibration with ChromaPure and the C5.

Should work fine. Use the Contrast pattern to check clipping. You should see five bars.

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post #273 of 5750 Old 02-15-2010, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Should work fine. Use the Contrast pattern to check clipping. You should see five bars.

What contrast pattern ? The brightness/contrast/sharpness chapter only contains three patterns.

Is there an explanation for the brightness and contrast patterns ?. The former shows bars, up to 5. Are these at -2, 0, +2 and +4. The latter shows a white window with a white pattern. Is the inner window at 255 and the outer at 235.
Seem to recall you had a document describing these patterns, but cannot find it now.

The other patterns are (grayscale, color and gamma) are self explanatory.

BTW, the S97 switches patterns so much faster then any BR player. Almost instant. It is a pleasure to use it.

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post #274 of 5750 Old 02-15-2010, 12:05 PM
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Take a look here and see what you think.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1508

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post #275 of 5750 Old 02-15-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

What contrast pattern ? The brightness/contrast/sharpness chapter only contains three patterns.

Is there an explanation for the brightness and contrast patterns ?. The former shows bars, up to 5. Are these at -2, 0, +2 and +4. The latter shows a white window with a white pattern. Is the inner window at 255 and the outer at 235.

I have created a new contrast pattern, but hadn't implemented it yet. With the pattern you have you should be able to visually distinguish between the inner and outer patterns. It's the same with the brightness pattern. You should be able to see all of the stripes.

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post #276 of 5750 Old 02-15-2010, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

Take a look here and see what you think.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1508

The grayscale is excellent. I'd turn the main Color control up one or two ticks to get the color dEs a little lower. The gamma is much too high, especially at the upper end. If all you have are gamma presets and that's the best you can get, then you are stuck. It is a design flaw with the TV.

BTW, the pre-post differences are negligible.

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post #277 of 5750 Old 02-16-2010, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

Take a look here and see what you think.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1508

Somehow Chad B. was able to control the gamma on this set. Can you move the gamma when you adjust your 10 point gray scale?

I've been interested in this set for some time and am now concerned about whether or not it does calibrate as well as Chad said in his review.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post16770548
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post #278 of 5750 Old 02-16-2010, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Somehow Chad B. was able to control the gamma on this set. Can you move the gamma when you adjust your 10 point gray scale?

If your display has a 10 pt gray scale control then you can attempt to tame the gamma at each point by moving the RGB controls at that point in unison after you've balanced them for the proper color mix. e.g. if the gamma at 70% is 1.9 then lower RGB at the 70% control in unison until you've lowered luminance at that point sufficiently to get to your target gamma. Depending on how LG implements these controls, it may affect the color mix somewhat and also affect the points closest to it. As with any calibrating, a number of iterations will probably be needed to get things optimal.

cheers,


--tom
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post #279 of 5750 Old 02-16-2010, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Somehow Chad B. was able to control the gamma on this set. Can you move the gamma when you adjust your 10 point gray scale?

I've been interested in this set for some time and am now concerned about whether or not it does calibrate as well as Chad said in his review.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post16770548


Yes, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post18141896
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post #280 of 5750 Old 02-16-2010, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rowland.johnson View Post

Yes, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post18141896

I'm still learning about this, so it is gratifying to learn that something I thought was possible is proven right. Thanks.
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post #281 of 5750 Old 02-16-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

The grayscale is excellent. I'd turn the main Color control up one or two ticks to get the color dEs a little lower. The gamma is much too high, especially at the upper end. If all you have are gamma presets and that's the best you can get, then you are stuck. It is a design flaw with the TV.

BTW, the pre-post differences are negligible.

Found the way to get a correct Gamma.

Credit to this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1510
Calibration results here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1519

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post #282 of 5750 Old 02-18-2010, 05:53 AM
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Hello,

I did 2 differents calibration and would like to have your comments about which one seems the best.

http://rapidshare.com/files/35237343...sults.zip.html

Thank you.

Pitou!
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post #283 of 5750 Old 02-20-2010, 01:29 PM
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The site says CIE '31 xy is the default which implies there's a way to switch to '76 uv but I can't find it.


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post #284 of 5750 Old 02-20-2010, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The site says CIE '31 xy is the default which implies there's a way to switch to '76 uv but I can't find it.

The original Excel-based report had both the 1931 and the 1976 charts. When we went to integrated reporting we used the 1931 chart only. We are going to put the Excel report back as an option and add the 1976 chart to the report in an upcoming release.

There's no value in having both charts in the main program because the Color Management module (and this is where it would make a real difference), doesn't use a CIE chart.

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post #285 of 5750 Old 02-21-2010, 04:00 PM
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Althought I can burn and play the ChromaPure calibration disc my Popcorn Hour can't reliably navigate the disc by opening the VIDEO_TS directory. So far this is the only DVD filesystem I have that's failing.

I don't suppose you'd consider using an AVSHD ordering?


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post #286 of 5750 Old 02-21-2010, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Althought I can make and play the ChromaPure calibration disc my Popcorn Hour can't reliably navigate the disc by opening VIDEO_TS directory. So far this is the only DVD filesystem I have that's failing.

I don't suppose you'd consider using an AVSHD ordering?

Downloaded this and burned to DVD with ImageBurn.

Plays in my BD390, BD60, S97 and Toshiba D2

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post #287 of 5750 Old 02-25-2010, 04:54 PM
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I just picked up chromapure (loving the ui and flows) along with the D2, and finally had a chance to calibrate my pn50b650. When calibrating color management section, I cant seem to get my decent saturation for red, blue, and magenta. I'm using the samsungs color space / custom option to make adjustments. Anyone care to share some tips to a newb?

I've attached my settings
here's a link to my cal report

http://foxtailsomersault.com/Calibra...ryDetailed.pdf

Cheers,

-S

 

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post #288 of 5750 Old 02-25-2010, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakama View Post
I just picked up chromapure (loving the ui and flows) along with the D2, and finally had a chance to calibrate my pn50b650. When calibrating color management section, I cant seem to get my decent saturation for red, blue, and magenta. I'm using the samsungs color space / custom option to make adjustments. Anyone care to share some tips to a newb?

I've attached my settings
here's a link to my cal report

http://foxtailsomersault.com/Calibra...ryDetailed.pdf
I did a B750 this weekend and got even worse results. I am not seeing great things from the 2009 CCFL Samsung LCDs. The 2008's seemed better, and the U-series LEDs seem better as well.

 

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post #289 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I did a B750 this weekend and got even worse results. I am not seeing great things from the 2009 CCFL Samsung LCDs. The 2008's seemed better, and the U-series LEDs seem better as well.

Tom, those are interesting results especially the gamma measurements. Does Chromapure have any built-in tools for helping to minimize dE with regards to chromacity performance? i.e. does it tell you the optimal Y target given the x,y coordinates and a reference? In looking at the CIE diagram, it's interesting to note that the optimized red actually looks to be farther from the target in x,y space - green also looks to be the same.
Do you think their CMS implementation has changed for the worse? Did making changes with it have any noticeable adverse affects?


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post #290 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasl View Post

Tom, those are interesting results especially the gamma measurements. Does Chromapure have any built-in tools for helping to minimize dE with regards to chromacity performance? i.e. does it tell you the optimal Y target given the x,y coordinates and a reference? In looking at the CIE diagram, it's interesting to note that the optimized red actually looks to be farther from the target in x,y space - green also looks to be the same.
Do you think their CMS implementation has changed for the worse? Did making changes with it have any noticeable adverse affects?

Sure. The Color Management modules and Color Decoding Modules do just that--Color Management uses fixed targets from the working color space and Color Decoding uses calculated targets from the measured xy coordinates.

Perhaps, but remember that the 1931 CIE chart is not perceptually uniform. What matters more are the dE results. In both cases, the dEs went down, though by small amounts.

The CMS implementation per se is the same. What seems to have taken a step backward is just the basic performance of the panel, though I am basing that statement on only 2 or 3 observed samples.

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post #291 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Sure. The Color Management modules and Color Decoding Modules do just that--Color Management uses fixed targets from the working color space and Color Decoding uses calculated targets from the measured xy coordinates.

Thanks Tom - that sounds exactly like how one would want things. On my one Samsung with a CMS, I initially set color/tint to optimize color decoding given the native primaries and then used my home grown program to tell me the best I could do via the CMS to get the lowest dE values. I currently use dE1994 since like you I've found that dELUV simply overstates the luminance correction in order to compensate for saturation error (either over or under-saturated).

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Perhaps, but remember that the 1931 CIE chart is not perceptually uniform. What matters more are the dE results. In both cases, the dEs went down, though by small amounts.

Right - I was just curious. The green measurement that you got in custom/native before making any changes seems to match up more or less with the green I've measured with my D2 on my two newer Samsungs. I picked up a 19B361 for the kitchen and green comes in at .284, .602 while a 32B540 I picked up comes in at .272, .584. It seems that a green sitting off to the slightly lower left of the HD709 green is fairly standard on Samsungs.


--tom
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post #292 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 12:04 PM
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Tom, my calibration was on the b650 plasma, i'll write down my latest settings and see if i can get similar default color performance as in your review of the 09 samsung plasmas
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post #293 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snakama View Post

Tom, my calibration was on the b650 plasma, i'll write down my latest settings and see if i can get similar default color performance as in your review of the 09 samsung plasmas

Sorry, I misread that. I have had great results with the B650 plasmas.

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post #294 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 02:20 PM
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For interested parties, here's a review of the recently-updated iScan Duo that I just posted on my web site.

IMHO, it is a seriously great product at a very good price.

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear.asp

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post #295 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

For interested parties, here's a review of the recently-updated iScan Duo that I just posted on my web site.

IMHO, it is a seriously great product at a very good price.

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear.asp


Thanks!

But your Pioneer PDP-5060 Kuro plasma has a black level of 0.001 fL?
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post #297 of 5750 Old 02-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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Thanks!

But your Pioneer PDP-5060 Kuro plasma has a black level of 0.001 fL?

Typo alert!

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post #298 of 5750 Old 03-02-2010, 01:56 AM
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Hello Mr. Huffmann,
I recently purchased a license of ChromaPure and it´s really a wonderful piece of software! The Calibration workflow is really fluent, everything is there where it should be

Did a first run on my Samsung LCD A659(equal A656) and seems like I am having a problem with gamma and saturation of the colors.

Can you please take a short look at the report?
Maybe you can see something and give me an advice to minimize the saturation error.

Thanks a lot and regards,
Peter

 

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post #299 of 5750 Old 03-02-2010, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
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Did a first run on my Samsung LCD A659(equal A656) and seems like I am having a problem with gamma and saturation of the colors.

Can you please take a short look at the report?
Maybe you can see something and give me an advice to minimize the saturation error.

Thgese results seem typical for a Samsung. You have probably got it as good as it can be done.

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post #300 of 5750 Old 03-02-2010, 08:04 AM
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I occured to me recently that it would be really useful to have a white balance display (in real time) on the same screen as the gamma calibration page. I find that when I'm adjusting my VideoEQ to set the gamma up point by point from 100 IRE down, I then have to go back to check the RGB at each 10 IRE point as well due to some interaction/drift.

If there was a way to display them both together this would be useful. Also, is there way to display different colour saturations on the same colour gamut chart it would be helpful (although I can check this using HFCR, if I want to).

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