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Display Calibration

TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Driver failing to install. Meter not detected.
Go to Update driver in the Device Manager, select "Browse my Computer for Driver Software". Make sure you browse to the i1Pro2 folder and not the i1Pro-D2 folder.

Also, make sure that the meter is sitting on the calibration plate on a flat service when you try to initialize.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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I'll give it a try when I get home. thx
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Tom, updating the driver worked. Here's a picture of the i1 Pro2 hanging from the TV. The display holder is a bit short so the meter is not quite centered.
Attached: untitled (1 of 1).jpg (220.7 KB) 
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Did my first correction with both meters. It was quick with some light in the room. I'll run it again tomorrow, with lights down.


Can you explain what the numbers are showing here?
Attached: first test.JPG (33.4 KB) 
dunan's Avatar dunan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
If you don't profile the D3 to a spectro meter you may well be quite a ways off to begin with and you'll never know.
This Is what I'm starting to think because....



Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Magenta and yellow have dE values of 0.8 and 1.5 respectively. Leave them alone.
I started the color calibration process part over to see if I could get all dE values lowered and I was successful, all from 0.4 to 0.9 dE. Looks great on the chart but not on screen, I was afraid if this. Everything is cyan heavy. Very heavy. I'm not sure how it got that way. I'll post the chart later this afternoon. Very discouraging.
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Did my first correction with both meters. It was quick with some light in the room. I'll run it again tomorrow, with lights down.


Can you explain what the numbers are showing here?
It's xy values, the values shown on a CIE chart.
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post
I started the color calibration process part over to see if I could get all dE values lowered and I was successful, all from 0.4 to 0.9 dE. Looks great on the chart but not on screen, I was afraid if this. Everything is cyan heavy. Very heavy. I'm not sure how it got that way. I'll post the chart later this afternoon. Very discouraging.
Get white/black levels, gamma, grayscale, and color gamut right. If those are right, then anything you see that seems wrong reflects your subjective expectations, which may or may not be the same as the objectively correct values.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Tom, I just finished profiling the i1d3 to the i1pro2 with the room lights down. The xy values of the i1d3 are close to those of the reference meter, which is great to see.
Attached: meter profiling 8-16-2014.JPG (31.3 KB) 
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Going by the correction table that accompanied the i1d3, I did a little math. Here is my new table. Is it accurate?
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Here it is
Attached: corrections 8-16-14.JPG (16.9 KB) 
dunan's Avatar dunan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Get white/black levels, gamma, grayscale, and color gamut right. If those are right, then anything you see that seems wrong reflects your subjective expectations, which may or may not be the same as the objectively correct values.
Here is the latest chart. This is the heavy cyan calibration I was referring to. Let me know if anything seems off to you.

Does anything not look right here other than it not being perfect of course. I must be doing something wrong somewhere. I also think the WB on this tv is borked some, its taking way too long to get the white balance right. Hours. Also, is it normal for IRE60 to throw off 90 and 100 in the WB detail settings? Because that's what its doing and once I get that down to say 20/30, those will throw off 90 again which will throw off 60 again, etc...I think I glanced somewhere that panasonic acknowledged that there was an issue with the WB on this set, Something to look into I guess.
Attached: _number14.JPG (95.0 KB) 
TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post
Here is the latest chart. This is the heavy cyan calibration I was referring to. Let me know if anything seems off to you.

Does anything not look right here other than it not being perfect of course. I must be doing something wrong somewhere. I also think the WB on this tv is borked some, its taking way too long to get the white balance right. Hours. Also, is it normal for IRE60 to throw off 90 and 100 in the WB detail settings? Because that's what its doing and once I get that down to say 20/30, those will throw off 90 again which will throw off 60 again, etc...I think I glanced somewhere that panasonic acknowledged that there was an issue with the WB on this set, Something to look into I guess.
A "heavy cyan" appearance would mean a profound lack of red. There is no indication of that, though you haven't posted the grayscale. If it takes more than 10 minutes to do grayscale, then something is wrong. Using phrases such as "throws off" are not helpful, because there's no way to know what tolerances you are aiming for. Just get all grayscale levels below dE 2.0. Don't worry about variations below that.

Use the
Custom Picture mode
Normal color temp
AGC 0
Black Extension 0
Color Gamut Normal
Gamma 2.4
Black level Light
Screen Format Full
Overscan Off
chunon's Avatar chunon
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Tom,

What is the advantage to using normal color temp on the ST60 ? I have heard several people state that is the way to go.
dunan's Avatar dunan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
A "heavy cyan" appearance would mean a profound lack of red. There is no indication of that, though you haven't posted the grayscale. If it takes more than 10 minutes to do grayscale, then something is wrong. Using phrases such as "throws off" are not helpful, because there's no way to know what tolerances you are aiming for. Just get all grayscale levels below dE 2.0. Don't worry about variations below that.

Use the
Custom Picture mode
Normal color temp
AGC 0
Black Extension 0
Color Gamut Normal
Gamma 2.4
Black level Light
Screen Format Full
Overscan Off
Sorry about the vague descriptions. By throwing off I mean once I set the rgb say on IRE 60 in the grayscale, I go back and check 100 - 60 again (this was advised because changing one affects the other) and find that IRE 90 that was almost a perfect 100% across the rgb values before is now 98.4/99.2/104.5 again, and so now I have to fix that and get those even and vice versa. I thought that was the goal, to get an even plane as possible in the grayscale, regardless of dE value? And to get as flat a gamma curve as possible using the fine gamma tunings? That is what is taking so long, getting the rgb values in the grayscale as close to 100% even as possible across the entire range of 10-90. Is it not necessary?

I am using everything you suggested at the bottom, except the color temp is warm 2 (normal seemed too cold, any reason to use this specific setting?) Overscan is on, and I'm using 2.6 gamma as it shows up as 2.2 in chromapure and also did in calman when I used it before.

I'll post the gamma chart later this afternoon.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Just wanted to post my initial session with the i1d3 corrected off the i1pro2.


I used the set's CMS and WB control and removed my Mini3 for now.


In the Chromaticity chart, the gamut errors are below 1, except for blue, where the green value has maxed out at zero in the CMS. This isn't bad, but I don't recall maxing out the values in blue before.


I'll run the i1d3 to the Spectro several more times. I had the i1pro in contact mode and the i1d3 an inch from the panel when I ran the WRGB patterns. Maybe it skewed the correction. If that's true, all the values are wrong. Then, again, the report shows the actual range of the display's Custom mode color settings and it doesn't matter, as Tom said.




















Edit: picture quality is first rate, but black crush is noticeable. Must get the Mini3 back in the mix to correct below 20 IRE.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Photo's a bit blurry but PQ is almost film like.


Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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According to an HDTVtest review of the Samsung S9C OLED, the "Custom" setting uses the super-wide "native" gamut as its starting point and does not offer enough range in its CMS for precision adjustments. Wow.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I'll run the i1d3 to the Spectro several more times. I had the i1pro in contact mode and the i1d3 an inch from the panel when I ran the WRGB patterns. Maybe it skewed the correction. If that's true, all the values are wrong. Then, again, the report shows the actual range of the display's Custom mode color settings and it doesn't matter, as Tom said.


Is the field meter showing values for before or after corrections?



TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Is the field meter showing values for before or after corrections?
This screen shows the native xy values of both meters, and it is from this that the correction matrix (which is not shown) is created.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Thanks, I see now why contact vs non-contact does not matter.


btw profiling the meter before each session is now part of my routine. Takes little time with the pattern generator on the Mini3 and has given me more confidence in the i1 Display Pro 3.
dunan's Avatar dunan
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I took a more refined approach to my latest attempt and matched these numbers almost exactly and got the best calibration yet. Once I matched these numbers for the primaries the secondaries practically fell into place and am very pleased with where they landed.

REC 709 (HDTV):
Red: x=0.640 / y=0.330 / Y=0.2126
Green: x=0.300 / y=0.600 / Y=0.7152
Blue: x=0.150 / y=0.060 / Y=0.0722

I am STILL a little in red in the grayscale, even though I made sure that the red percentages were a little under green and blue when I configured 100-10, for example (99.4/100/99.9%, RGB respectively)

Weird, but I did read another poster state that the iD3 gives a red boost when it's taking readings or something to that affect?

I'll try to post the calibration report later.
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767
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This may or may not apply.

from zoyd (I think):

The only tint you can detect is in reference to the white that is the brightest shade of gray on the screen. That's why when red clips and the brightest white goes blue, your eye tells you all the lower swatches just turned pinkish. Your eye can be sensitive to see if the grayscale is consistent, but it doesn't have a clue what the whitepoint is.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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What's causing the blue to be elevated here? Is luminance adjustable?






Thought I could reduce the blue's green value using the Radiance control panel, but the bar won't go down any further; however, it does goes up if I hit the up arrow.



TomHuffman's Avatar TomHuffman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
What's causing the blue to be elevated here? Is luminance adjustable?



Lower the display's main Color control. You'll then have to use the Radiance controls to raise luminance elsewhere as appropriate.
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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I'll reduce color in the display menu and go from there. Thanks!
Pres2play's Avatar Pres2play
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Adjusting the main color control had no affect, but when I lowered the blue component, instead of green, the luminance dropped down.

BEFORE:



AFTER:




Even though blue component has greater error now and bar looks whacky, blue as a whole has lower dE. Is this final result common/acceptable for calibrators?





Edit: Tom, do you think the error in blue is due to the spectral difference between plasma and OLED displays and meters being set to plasma?


Maybe I get better gamut luminance for blue if I use the "Auto" color space, which is closer to Rec709. Will try tomorrow, and use the Mini3d to dial in the color points if I need to.
dunan's Avatar dunan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
A "heavy cyan" appearance would mean a profound lack of red. There is no indication of that, though you haven't posted the grayscale. If it takes more than 10 minutes to do grayscale, then something is wrong. Using phrases such as "throws off" are not helpful, because there's no way to know what tolerances you are aiming for. Just get all grayscale levels below dE 2.0. Don't worry about variations below that.

Use the
Custom Picture mode
Normal color temp
AGC 0
Black Extension 0
Color Gamut Normal
Gamma 2.4
Black level Light
Screen Format Full
Overscan Off
I'm not sure why it's taking so long to do the grayscale but it does, because I try to get all the primaries as even as possible and getting one right makes the ones down the line etc so I have to go back and forth to correct them... What a pain. I've only had this issue with this TV.

But anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation of the settings, I was having some real issues with everything looking good but and skin tones and ambient occlusion not looking right using the warm 2 setting. Using the gamma 2.4 setting and the normal color temp completely solved those issues so far (only got to test with braveheart so far which has a plethora of skin tone variables) so I'll take a look later today but so far so good. Now THIS is the best calibration yet, all primaries and secondaries are 1.5 and lower.
chunon's Avatar chunon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post
I'm not sure why it's taking so long to do the grayscale but it does, because I try to get all the primaries as even as possible and getting one right makes the ones down the line etc so I have to go back and forth to correct them... What a pain. I've only had this issue with this TV.

But anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation of the settings, I was having some real issues with everything looking good but and skin tones and ambient occlusion not looking right using the warm 2 setting. Using the gamma 2.4 setting and the normal color temp completely solved those issues so far (only got to test with braveheart so far which has a plethora of skin tone variables) so I'll take a look later today but so far so good. Now THIS is the best calibration yet, all primaries and secondaries are 1.5 and lower.
What is ambient occlusion ?
dunan's Avatar dunan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
What is ambient occlusion ?
It applies to every surface but very important in skin tones - it's how specific surfaces react to ambient lighting.

Like how skin or other surfaces react to sunlight, florescent lighting. I was having issues with skin tones looking great in one scene and in another scene skin tones looked bland, lifeless, or overly pink - just not right, like if you were to go to the movies and see what I was seeing you think something is definitely wrong with the picture.
simonk83's Avatar simonk83
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Hi gents,

Sorry to butt in here with something you've probably seen a million times, but we all have to start somewhere

Completely new to calibration, but I'm passionate about my movies and want the display to be as good as I can get it (within budgetary reason of course ). So I bought this today and am currently tossing up between Calman Basic and ChromaPure Standard. I'm leaning towards ChromaPure but I just want to make sure that it's going to be suitable, both for a total beginner (I hear good things, so I assume it's noob friendly, but just triple checking), for the meter above and for my TV (currently a Samsung F9000, with a projector to follow in the next year or so).

I should say right now that I'm colourblind (not severely, but enough to muddle things up). There's an argument that I may not need calibration at all in that case, but this being an enthusiast board I assume you get it (I know it's currently wrong, I want it to be right ). So that being said, and with this really being an objective tool that's going to tell me if a colour is correct or not without my eyes factoring into the equation, am I still going to be OK to use the software etc properly?

Thanks for your time, appreciate the help!

EDIT: I'm going to be needing a calibration disc as well... I see there's a specific Chromapure one, but being in Australia it'd cost a bit to get one shipped over (not to mention the time). On CurtPalme for example, the shipping actually costs more than the disc itself Any suggestions there?

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