The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 189 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 18Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5641 of 5663 Old 08-15-2014, 12:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Driver failing to install. Meter not detected.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg i1 pro2.JPG (45.3 KB, 17 views)
Pres2play is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5642 of 5663 Old 08-15-2014, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 6,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Driver failing to install. Meter not detected.
Go to Update driver in the Device Manager, select "Browse my Computer for Driver Software". Make sure you browse to the i1Pro2 folder and not the i1Pro-D2 folder.

Also, make sure that the meter is sitting on the calibration plate on a flat service when you try to initialize.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #5643 of 5663 Old 08-15-2014, 03:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
I'll give it a try when I get home. thx
Pres2play is offline  
post #5644 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 01:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Tom, updating the driver worked. Here's a picture of the i1 Pro2 hanging from the TV. The display holder is a bit short so the meter is not quite centered.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg untitled (1 of 1).jpg (220.7 KB, 29 views)
Pres2play is offline  
post #5645 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 01:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Did my first correction with both meters. It was quick with some light in the room. I'll run it again tomorrow, with lights down.


Can you explain what the numbers are showing here?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg first test.JPG (33.4 KB, 31 views)
Pres2play is offline  
post #5646 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 09:24 AM
Advanced Member
 
dunan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
If you don't profile the D3 to a spectro meter you may well be quite a ways off to begin with and you'll never know.
This Is what I'm starting to think because....



Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Magenta and yellow have dE values of 0.8 and 1.5 respectively. Leave them alone.
I started the color calibration process part over to see if I could get all dE values lowered and I was successful, all from 0.4 to 0.9 dE. Looks great on the chart but not on screen, I was afraid if this. Everything is cyan heavy. Very heavy. I'm not sure how it got that way. I'll post the chart later this afternoon. Very discouraging.
dunan is offline  
post #5647 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 01:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 6,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Did my first correction with both meters. It was quick with some light in the room. I'll run it again tomorrow, with lights down.


Can you explain what the numbers are showing here?
It's xy values, the values shown on a CIE chart.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #5648 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 01:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 6,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post
I started the color calibration process part over to see if I could get all dE values lowered and I was successful, all from 0.4 to 0.9 dE. Looks great on the chart but not on screen, I was afraid if this. Everything is cyan heavy. Very heavy. I'm not sure how it got that way. I'll post the chart later this afternoon. Very discouraging.
Get white/black levels, gamma, grayscale, and color gamut right. If those are right, then anything you see that seems wrong reflects your subjective expectations, which may or may not be the same as the objectively correct values.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #5649 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 01:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Tom, I just finished profiling the i1d3 to the i1pro2 with the room lights down. The xy values of the i1d3 are close to those of the reference meter, which is great to see.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg meter profiling 8-16-2014.JPG (31.3 KB, 16 views)
Pres2play is offline  
post #5650 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 02:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Going by the correction table that accompanied the i1d3, I did a little math. Here is my new table. Is it accurate?
Pres2play is offline  
post #5651 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 02:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Here it is
Attached Images
File Type: jpg corrections 8-16-14.JPG (16.9 KB, 21 views)
Pres2play is offline  
post #5652 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
dunan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Get white/black levels, gamma, grayscale, and color gamut right. If those are right, then anything you see that seems wrong reflects your subjective expectations, which may or may not be the same as the objectively correct values.
Here is the latest chart. This is the heavy cyan calibration I was referring to. Let me know if anything seems off to you.

Does anything not look right here other than it not being perfect of course. I must be doing something wrong somewhere. I also think the WB on this tv is borked some, its taking way too long to get the white balance right. Hours. Also, is it normal for IRE60 to throw off 90 and 100 in the WB detail settings? Because that's what its doing and once I get that down to say 20/30, those will throw off 90 again which will throw off 60 again, etc...I think I glanced somewhere that panasonic acknowledged that there was an issue with the WB on this set, Something to look into I guess.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _number14.JPG (95.0 KB, 34 views)
dunan is offline  
post #5653 of 5663 Old 08-16-2014, 10:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 6,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunan View Post
Here is the latest chart. This is the heavy cyan calibration I was referring to. Let me know if anything seems off to you.

Does anything not look right here other than it not being perfect of course. I must be doing something wrong somewhere. I also think the WB on this tv is borked some, its taking way too long to get the white balance right. Hours. Also, is it normal for IRE60 to throw off 90 and 100 in the WB detail settings? Because that's what its doing and once I get that down to say 20/30, those will throw off 90 again which will throw off 60 again, etc...I think I glanced somewhere that panasonic acknowledged that there was an issue with the WB on this set, Something to look into I guess.
A "heavy cyan" appearance would mean a profound lack of red. There is no indication of that, though you haven't posted the grayscale. If it takes more than 10 minutes to do grayscale, then something is wrong. Using phrases such as "throws off" are not helpful, because there's no way to know what tolerances you are aiming for. Just get all grayscale levels below dE 2.0. Don't worry about variations below that.

Use the
Custom Picture mode
Normal color temp
AGC 0
Black Extension 0
Color Gamut Normal
Gamma 2.4
Black level Light
Screen Format Full
Overscan Off

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #5654 of 5663 Old 08-17-2014, 06:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 485
Tom,

What is the advantage to using normal color temp on the ST60 ? I have heard several people state that is the way to go.

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is online now  
post #5655 of 5663 Old 08-17-2014, 08:02 AM
Advanced Member
 
dunan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
A "heavy cyan" appearance would mean a profound lack of red. There is no indication of that, though you haven't posted the grayscale. If it takes more than 10 minutes to do grayscale, then something is wrong. Using phrases such as "throws off" are not helpful, because there's no way to know what tolerances you are aiming for. Just get all grayscale levels below dE 2.0. Don't worry about variations below that.

Use the
Custom Picture mode
Normal color temp
AGC 0
Black Extension 0
Color Gamut Normal
Gamma 2.4
Black level Light
Screen Format Full
Overscan Off
Sorry about the vague descriptions. By throwing off I mean once I set the rgb say on IRE 60 in the grayscale, I go back and check 100 - 60 again (this was advised because changing one affects the other) and find that IRE 90 that was almost a perfect 100% across the rgb values before is now 98.4/99.2/104.5 again, and so now I have to fix that and get those even and vice versa. I thought that was the goal, to get an even plane as possible in the grayscale, regardless of dE value? And to get as flat a gamma curve as possible using the fine gamma tunings? That is what is taking so long, getting the rgb values in the grayscale as close to 100% even as possible across the entire range of 10-90. Is it not necessary?

I am using everything you suggested at the bottom, except the color temp is warm 2 (normal seemed too cold, any reason to use this specific setting?) Overscan is on, and I'm using 2.6 gamma as it shows up as 2.2 in chromapure and also did in calman when I used it before.

I'll post the gamma chart later this afternoon.
dunan is offline  
post #5656 of 5663 Old 08-17-2014, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Just wanted to post my initial session with the i1d3 corrected off the i1pro2.


I used the set's CMS and WB control and removed my Mini3 for now.


In the Chromaticity chart, the gamut errors are below 1, except for blue, where the green value has maxed out at zero in the CMS. This isn't bad, but I don't recall maxing out the values in blue before.


I'll run the i1d3 to the Spectro several more times. I had the i1pro in contact mode and the i1d3 an inch from the panel when I ran the WRGB patterns. Maybe it skewed the correction. If that's true, all the values are wrong. Then, again, the report shows the actual range of the display's Custom mode color settings and it doesn't matter, as Tom said.




















Edit: picture quality is first rate, but black crush is noticeable. Must get the Mini3 back in the mix to correct below 20 IRE.

Last edited by Pres2play; 08-17-2014 at 02:54 PM.
Pres2play is offline  
post #5657 of 5663 Old 08-17-2014, 07:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Photo's a bit blurry but PQ is almost film like.

Pres2play is offline  
post #5658 of 5663 Old 08-17-2014, 10:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
According to an HDTVtest review of the Samsung S9C OLED, the "Custom" setting uses the super-wide "native" gamut as its starting point and does not offer enough range in its CMS for precision adjustments. Wow.
Pres2play is offline  
post #5659 of 5663 Old 08-19-2014, 12:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
I'll run the i1d3 to the Spectro several more times. I had the i1pro in contact mode and the i1d3 an inch from the panel when I ran the WRGB patterns. Maybe it skewed the correction. If that's true, all the values are wrong. Then, again, the report shows the actual range of the display's Custom mode color settings and it doesn't matter, as Tom said.


Is the field meter showing values for before or after corrections?


Pres2play is offline  
post #5660 of 5663 Old 08-20-2014, 12:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TomHuffman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 6,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Is the field meter showing values for before or after corrections?
This screen shows the native xy values of both meters, and it is from this that the correction matrix (which is not shown) is created.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

TomHuffman is offline  
post #5661 of 5663 Old 08-20-2014, 01:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Pres2play's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Thanks, I see now why contact vs non-contact does not matter.


btw profiling the meter before each session is now part of my routine. Takes little time with the pattern generator on the Mini3 and has given me more confidence in the i1 Display Pro 3.
Pres2play is offline  
post #5662 of 5663 Old 08-20-2014, 08:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
dunan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I took a more refined approach to my latest attempt and matched these numbers almost exactly and got the best calibration yet. Once I matched these numbers for the primaries the secondaries practically fell into place and am very pleased with where they landed.

REC 709 (HDTV):
Red: x=0.640 / y=0.330 / Y=0.2126
Green: x=0.300 / y=0.600 / Y=0.7152
Blue: x=0.150 / y=0.060 / Y=0.0722

I am STILL a little in red in the grayscale, even though I made sure that the red percentages were a little under green and blue when I configured 100-10, for example (99.4/100/99.9%, RGB respectively)

Weird, but I did read another poster state that the iD3 gives a red boost when it's taking readings or something to that affect?

I'll try to post the calibration report later.

Last edited by dunan; 08-20-2014 at 08:43 AM.
dunan is offline  
post #5663 of 5663 Old 08-20-2014, 11:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
buzzard767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Naples, FL & Wausau, WI
Posts: 3,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 337
This may or may not apply.

from zoyd (I think):

The only tint you can detect is in reference to the white that is the brightest shade of gray on the screen. That's why when red clips and the brightest white goes blue, your eye tells you all the lower swatches just turned pinkish. Your eye can be sensitive to see if the grayscale is consistent, but it doesn't have a clue what the whitepoint is.

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator

 

buzzard767 is online now  
Reply Display Calibration

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off