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post #5671 of 5684 Old 08-26-2014, 11:55 PM
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Hi gents,

Sorry to butt in here with something you've probably seen a million times, but we all have to start somewhere

Completely new to calibration, but I'm passionate about my movies and want the display to be as good as I can get it (within budgetary reason of course ). So I bought this today and am currently tossing up between Calman Basic and ChromaPure Standard. I'm leaning towards ChromaPure but I just want to make sure that it's going to be suitable, both for a total beginner (I hear good things, so I assume it's noob friendly, but just triple checking), for the meter above and for my TV (currently a Samsung F9000, with a projector to follow in the next year or so).

I should say right now that I'm colourblind (not severely, but enough to muddle things up). There's an argument that I may not need calibration at all in that case, but this being an enthusiast board I assume you get it (I know it's currently wrong, I want it to be right ). So that being said, and with this really being an objective tool that's going to tell me if a colour is correct or not without my eyes factoring into the equation, am I still going to be OK to use the software etc properly?

Thanks for your time, appreciate the help!

EDIT: I'm going to be needing a calibration disc as well... I see there's a specific Chromapure one, but being in Australia it'd cost a bit to get one shipped over (not to mention the time). On CurtPalme for example, the shipping actually costs more than the disc itself Any suggestions there?

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post #5672 of 5684 Old 08-27-2014, 04:47 AM
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Hi

After auto calibration for a perfect chromaticity CIE94 you need to adjust manually in radiance colors output CMS with the post calibration color gamut from chromapure ?

i think the auto calibration is good but for a perfect result, you need to adjust after? i'm right
my post CIE is not 100% inside "reference"

If YES, it's not a problem with 9x9x9 3dlut autocal?
let me know
thank you

Last edited by vincz; 08-27-2014 at 04:51 AM.
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post #5673 of 5684 Old 08-27-2014, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonk83 View Post
Sorry to butt in here with something you've probably seen a million times, but we all have to start somewhere

Completely new to calibration, but I'm passionate about my movies and want the display to be as good as I can get it (within budgetary reason of course ). So I bought this today and am currently tossing up between Calman Basic and ChromaPure Standard. I'm leaning towards ChromaPure but I just want to make sure that it's going to be suitable, both for a total beginner (I hear good things, so I assume it's noob friendly, but just triple checking), for the meter above and for my TV (currently a Samsung F9000, with a projector to follow in the next year or so).

I should say right now that I'm colourblind (not severely, but enough to muddle things up). There's an argument that I may not need calibration at all in that case, but this being an enthusiast board I assume you get it (I know it's currently wrong, I want it to be right ). So that being said, and with this really being an objective tool that's going to tell me if a colour is correct or not without my eyes factoring into the equation, am I still going to be OK to use the software etc properly?

Thanks for your time, appreciate the help!

EDIT: I'm going to be needing a calibration disc as well... I see there's a specific Chromapure one, but being in Australia it'd cost a bit to get one shipped over (not to mention the time). On CurtPalme for example, the shipping actually costs more than the disc itself Any suggestions there?
We can provide the disc as a digital download on request so long as you have the ability to burn Blu-rays from an iso image. Yes, ChromaPure works well with this meter. I don't know how anyone other than you can answer a question about your ability to get a satisfactory calibration given your color-blindness. If you have a rudimentary understanding of the vocabulary and main concepts of display calibration, ChromaPure shuld be quite straightforward to use. The included Help file is quite good.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #5674 of 5684 Old 08-27-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincz View Post
After auto calibration for a perfect chromaticity CIE94 you need to adjust manually in radiance colors output CMS with the post calibration color gamut from chromapure ?

i think the auto calibration is good but for a perfect result, you need to adjust after? i'm right
my post CIE is not 100% inside "reference"

If YES, it's not a problem with 9x9x9 3dlut autocal?
let me know.
To provide some perspective, the result of your 729-color calibration is an average dE of 0.6, with over 90% of the colors below a dE of 1.0. This is just about as good as it gets. You are focusing on the wrong thing, which is the result of a very few colors at the very edge of the gamut.

As we discussed, I don't know why these particular colors are problematic for your installation. I couldn't reproduce the problem, nor has anyone else reported this. Has anyone else had an otherwise excellent result with 729 auto-cal EXCEPT RGBCYM at the edge of the gamut at 100% stimulus having higher than expected luminance?

EDIT: If your display has an auto-iris, turn it off for calibration. A fixed iris is fine.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #5675 of 5684 Old 08-27-2014, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
We can provide the disc as a digital download on request so long as you have the ability to burn Blu-rays from an iso image. Yes, ChromaPure works well with this meter. I don't know how anyone other than you can answer a question about your ability to get a satisfactory calibration given your color-blindness. If you have a rudimentary understanding of the vocabulary and main concepts of display calibration, ChromaPure shuld be quite straightforward to use. The included Help file is quite good.
Thanks Tom.

EDIT: Sorted out via email

Last edited by simonk83; 08-27-2014 at 05:29 PM.
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post #5676 of 5684 Old 08-28-2014, 05:04 AM
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Hi,simonk83


I strongly recommend ChromaPure,even if you are beginner in calibration science.

It is very straightforward,easy to use, friendly interface, very powerful and above all a fantastic customer support.
ConnecTEDDD and nhcrew6 like this.
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post #5677 of 5684 Old 08-28-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post
Hi,simonk83


I strongly recommend ChromaPure,even if you are beginner in calibration science.

It is very straightforward,easy to use, friendly interface, very powerful and above all a fantastic customer support.

not easy, very difficult to have a perfect CIE for new 4K projector (jvc x500) and i'm not alone to have this mistake
it's not a problem with chromapure, you need before to understand how VP can work better in autocal
i check for the moment only in 5x5x5

my problem is probably with the color profil in VP. not sure to use the good one
with my old VP (jvc hd350) all is most easy with autocal
i'm pretty sure if i find i will be happy

Last edited by vincz; 08-28-2014 at 01:51 PM.
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post #5678 of 5684 Old 08-28-2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post
Hi,simonk83


I strongly recommend ChromaPure,even if you are beginner in calibration science.

It is very straightforward,easy to use, friendly interface, very powerful and above all a fantastic customer support.
Thanks, ordered it yesterday. And yes, the support has been great so far (and a shoutout to Kal from CurtPalme too).
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post #5679 of 5684 Old Yesterday, 01:23 AM
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Adjusting the main color control had no affect, but when I lowered the blue component, instead of green, the luminance dropped down.

BEFORE:



AFTER:




Even though blue component has greater error now and bar looks whacky, blue as a whole has lower dE. Is this final result common/acceptable for calibrators?





Edit: Tom, do you think the error in blue is due to the spectral difference between plasma and OLED displays and meters being set to plasma?


Maybe I get better gamut luminance for blue if I use the "Auto" color space, which is closer to Rec709. Will try tomorrow, and use the Mini3d to dial in the color points if I need to.

Still working on why the blue luminance is so high.


Regarding OLED , I came across this year-ago blog at NegativeSpace, which states the white target for OLED monitors is actually different from Rec.709. The article refers to Sony professional monitors, so don't know how much of this relates to consumer OLED TVs. The highlight is used in the article.


"An overview of the process, first input a 100% white test signal into the monitor and then use the probe to objectively measure the screen. It will tell where this white image is hitting in the gamut by way of x and y coordinates. From here, RGB gains are adjusted until the probe verifies that white is hitting the correct coordinates, x .313 y .329. If you're using an OLED monitor, you will use different coordinates than x .313 y .329 and you may need to adjust Bias as well to compensate for chroma cast in the dark tones of the picture. This process is very similar to adjusting White Balance, just using 20% neutral gray instead of 100% white."


And in a related article in the same blog...


"...When we white balance a monitor we start at D65 and then adjust Red, Green, and Blue gains to push 100% into the correct target white point in the gamut. As is exemplified in the above graphic, this is represented by a two dimensional chart with coordinates. For LCD's, CRT's, and other legacy displays the coordinates for white within Rec. 709 are x .313 y .329. It turns out however, these targets aren't well suited for today's OLED monitors."


http://www.negativespaces.com/blog/2...libration.html
https://negative-spaces.squarespace....e-balance.html

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post #5680 of 5684 Old Yesterday, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pres2play View Post
Still working on why the blue luminance is so high.


Regarding OLED , I came across this year-ago blog at NegativeSpace, which states the white target for OLED monitors is actually different from Rec.709. The article refers to Sony professional monitors, so don't know how much of this relates to consumer OLED TVs. The highlight is used in the article.


"An overview of the process, first input a 100% white test signal into the monitor and then use the probe to objectively measure the screen. It will tell where this white image is hitting in the gamut by way of x and y coordinates. From here, RGB gains are adjusted until the probe verifies that white is hitting the correct coordinates, x .313 y .329. If you're using an OLED monitor, you will use different coordinates than x .313 y .329 and you may need to adjust Bias as well to compensate for chroma cast in the dark tones of the picture. This process is very similar to adjusting White Balance, just using 20% neutral gray instead of 100% white."


And in a related article in the same blog...


"...When we white balance a monitor we start at D65 and then adjust Red, Green, and Blue gains to push 100% into the correct target white point in the gamut. As is exemplified in the above graphic, this is represented by a two dimensional chart with coordinates. For LCD's, CRT's, and other legacy displays the coordinates for white within Rec. 709 are x .313 y .329. It turns out however, these targets aren't well suited for today's OLED monitors."


http://www.negativespaces.com/blog/2...libration.html
https://negative-spaces.squarespace....e-balance.html
This issue is about white balance, not the color gamut. It is not that x0.3127, y0.329 are intrinsically incorrect for Sony OLEDs, rather it is that the 1931 standard observer equations used to calculate CIE coordinates may need to be updated. There has been some work on this, but as of now the 1931 data is still the official standard. Sony recommends x0.307, y0.318 for their Trimaster professional OLED displays.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #5681 of 5684 Old Yesterday, 05:02 AM
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post #5682 of 5684 Old Today, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
This issue is about white balance, not the color gamut. It is not that x0.3127, y0.329 are intrinsically incorrect for Sony OLEDs, rather it is that the 1931 standard observer equations used to calculate CIE coordinates may need to be updated. There has been some work on this, but as of now the 1931 data is still the official standard. Sony recommends x0.307, y0.318 for their Trimaster professional OLED displays.
Thanks for the clarification, Tom. Please know I'm very happy with CP and would recommend to all my friends.
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I'll register tomorrow. Are there instructions on how to set it up in the meter?
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Just realized I've been using the wrong picture mode all this time. Instead of Movie, I've been using Cal Night. I measured each mode and in Movie mode the blue color point is outside the gamut triangle, while in Cal Night it's inside. Perhaps this is the reason I'm having issue with blue. Will run it tonight.
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