The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 243 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7261 of 7287 Old 02-14-2017, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
I haven't experimented with the display personally, but if the Adaptive Backlight Control is a dynamic system that changes light output as content changes (like a dynamic iris on a projector), then I would turn it off. The backlight level should be set as low as possible while still getting adequate light output from the panel.
Thanks Tom

I'll experiment with the settings. One thing I am learning already is that the rewards for calibrating are for patience and experimentation as much as the mere objective use and interpretation of the calibration equipment.

TV: Panasonic TX58-DX902B
BluRay: Panasonic: MP-UB900EBK
SoundBar: Panasonic: SC-HTB885EBK
Calibration: ChromaPure 3.2.1, X-Rite Display 3 PRO II Colorimeter
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post #7262 of 7287 Old 02-14-2017, 05:05 AM
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Terminology

Tom

Would you make sure my understanding of basic terminology is correct please. Reading your explanatory articles I understand most things but the words Stimulus and Amp. are used and I am not 100% sure of what they mean.

What is Amp.? Eg Full Field Amp/75%S

S = Saturation but does Amp = Amplitude = Stimulus = Brightness = Luminance?

Are the following correct:

Intensity = Luminance?
Stimulus = Luminance?
Stimulus = Brightness = Luminance?

Thank you.

TV: Panasonic TX58-DX902B
BluRay: Panasonic: MP-UB900EBK
SoundBar: Panasonic: SC-HTB885EBK
Calibration: ChromaPure 3.2.1, X-Rite Display 3 PRO II Colorimeter
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post #7263 of 7287 Old 02-14-2017, 05:17 AM
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Tom, as you can see I cannot select any OLED option. Which setting in CP V2 comes closest for ideal OLED calibration?

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post #7264 of 7287 Old 02-14-2017, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aletheia View Post
Would you make sure my understanding of basic terminology is correct please. Reading your explanatory articles I understand most things but the words Stimulus and Amp. are used and I am not 100% sure of what they mean.

What is Amp.? Eg Full Field Amp/75%S

S = Saturation but does Amp = Amplitude = Stimulus = Brightness = Luminance?

Are the following correct:

Intensity = Luminance?
Stimulus = Luminance?
Stimulus = Brightness = Luminance?
Yes, these terms are used more or less interchangeably. % Video is also used. They all refer to the strength of the signal. A stronger signal yields a brighter image.

Tom Huffman
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ISF/THX Calibrations
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post #7265 of 7287 Old 02-14-2017, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post
Tom, as you can see I cannot select any OLED option. Which setting in CP V2 comes closest for ideal OLED calibration?

Probably plasma.

Tom Huffman
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post #7266 of 7287 Old 02-14-2017, 05:35 AM
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Yes, these terms are used more or less interchangeably. % Video is also used. They all refer to the strength of the signal. A stronger signal yields a brighter image.
Thanks for your quick response Tom.

I can see a great deal of time, effort, competence and dedication has gone in to what's you write and produce and I am enjoying reading it and learning a lot from it.

TV: Panasonic TX58-DX902B
BluRay: Panasonic: MP-UB900EBK
SoundBar: Panasonic: SC-HTB885EBK
Calibration: ChromaPure 3.2.1, X-Rite Display 3 PRO II Colorimeter
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post #7267 of 7287 Old 02-16-2017, 09:13 AM
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Considering a ChromaPure purchase, but have some questions

Hi everyone,

I'm really new to the word of calibrating, but I have some questions that drive me crazy.
(And please excuse my english, I'm from France)

I just bought a Samsung UE55KS9000 that I'm really happy with (maybe too much clouding, I'll see with time), but I'd like to calibrate it to get a great TV experience.

Important for the whole thing, I'm not a pro or power user, quite a real noob about color, gamut stuff, etc.

I have a Spyder 4 HDTV I got years ago, but from what I read, it's quite crap, so after hours of reading on forums (here mainly), I won't use it and I bought a "X-rite EODIS3 i1 Display Pro" on amazon and I'm receiving it later today.

amazon.fr/gp/product/B0055MBQOW/ << what I took (put the 3w before)


Now I think I have 2 choices :

Go with HCFR (free but time consuming and seek method for yourself)
or ChromaPure (paid but quite straightforward and help is included from what I read)

(I saw other solutions like Calman Control, but really out of my budget)
Beacause yes, after the TV and the meter, I'm short...


So my questions are :

1) Will my EODIS3 i1 will work with Chromapure, or it has to be modded by TomHuffman? (I read this on a review here (homecinema-fr.com/forum/les-logiciels-de-calibration/la-calibration-chromapure-pas-a-pas-t30015916.html) (put the 3w before)

2) For what expect to do with, is the lite version enough? (I have actually no idea how valuable for me are "Gamma, Advanced Color Management, ColorChecker, Reports, Auto-Calibrate, Lumens Calculator, Conversion Utility, PRO meters, Signal Generator support, and Options."
- Gamma, Advanced Color Management, ColorChecker, mostly, the rest is aiming quite advanced users I think.

3) For the paterns, chromapure's seem to be included with a "hardware purchase", can I use AVS HD 709 just fine ?

3) My TV seems to be capable of HDR-10, should I get "R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns" to calibrate my HDR mode, or AVS HD 709 is fine, since my meter is not HDR capable like the SpectraCal C6-HDR?

I'm really sorry if some of these questions look stupid, I'm really getting started with all of this, and just want to get my picture (and maybe a friend's) fine for the best price

In advance a huge thank to you,
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post #7268 of 7287 Old 02-16-2017, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroDegre View Post
1) Will my EODIS3 i1 will work with Chromapure, or it has to be modded by TomHuffman? (I read this on a review here (homecinema-fr.com/forum/les-logiciels-de-calibration/la-calibration-chromapure-pas-a-pas-t30015916.html) (put the 3w before)

2) For what expect to do with, is the lite version enough? (I have actually no idea how valuable for me are "Gamma, Advanced Color Management, ColorChecker, Reports, Auto-Calibrate, Lumens Calculator, Conversion Utility, PRO meters, Signal Generator support, and Options."
- Gamma, Advanced Color Management, ColorChecker, mostly, the rest is aiming quite advanced users I think.

3) For the paterns, chromapure's seem to be included with a "hardware purchase", can I use AVS HD 709 just fine ?

4) My TV seems to be capable of HDR-10, should I get "R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns" to calibrate my HDR mode, or AVS HD 709 is fine, since my meter is not HDR capable like the SpectraCal C6-HDR?
1. Yes, it will work, but for the modifications you have to send the meter to us.
2. No, I don't think so. I would recommend ChromaPure Standard.
3. Yes.
4. Yes. To do HDR calibration you would need this.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
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post #7269 of 7287 Old 02-16-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
1. Yes, it will work, but for the modifications you have to send the meter to us.
2. No, I don't think so. I would recommend ChromaPure Standard.
3. Yes.
4. Yes. To do HDR calibration you would need this.
Hi TomHuffman, thanks a lot for your answer.

Points 2,3 & 4, Ok and big thanks.

Point 1: So "as it", out of the box, I cannot use it if I decide to get à Chromapure licence?

Or the "hardware mod" unlocks possibilities for better calibration?

Sorry to double ask but licence + 2 way shipping + (potential import taxes) + mod cost = a no go for my wallet
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post #7270 of 7287 Old 02-16-2017, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeroDegre View Post
Hi TomHuffman, thanks a lot for your answer.

Points 2,3 & 4, Ok and big thanks.

Point 1: So "as it", out of the box, I cannot use it if I decide to get à Chromapure licence?

Or the "hardware mod" unlocks possibilities for better calibration?

Sorry to double ask but licence + 2 way shipping + (potential import taxes) + mod cost = a no go for my wallet
Not at all. You can use it as is. You would just get improved accuracy by having it corrected. Even without corrections, the i1d3 is an excellent meter.
ZeroDegre likes this.

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post #7271 of 7287 Old 02-19-2017, 03:36 AM
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Not at all. You can use it as is. You would just get improved accuracy by having it corrected. Even without corrections, the i1d3 is an excellent meter.
Thanks for everything! Waiting my licence from chromapure.co.uk (no answer since friday, maybe on holiday), but can't wait to start using it
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post #7272 of 7287 Old 02-19-2017, 07:01 AM
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Tom what are your recommended settings under ChromaPure Options/ Meters/Display 3?
I have my I1D3 Pro set to
Measurement Mode CRT
Integration time 0.9 seconds, any lower and my 0% stimulus reads 0.003ftL for the mll, its a Panasonic ST60, 0.9 seconds 0% stimulus reads 0.002ftL mll which is what these measure at.
Normal Read Mode
1 cdm2 low light threshold
3 Number of measurements

Also what do you do to combat IR during calibration so your measurements are not affected due to having the patterns on the screen for so long? I think that sometimes IR could be affecting my measurements because I've had been calibrating for so long , since the process is so iterative.

Last edited by hungro; 02-19-2017 at 07:19 AM.
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post #7273 of 7287 Old 02-21-2017, 02:08 PM
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21 point White Balance on Chromapure Disc?

Hi guys. I just recently purchased Chromapure and the accompanying disc. I cannot find the slides for the 21 point white balance adjustment on the disc however. If someone could tell me where I could get that or where it is on the disc I would greatly appreciate it. I'm a very novice calibrator and just started using Chromapure a week ago, be gentle. Thanks.

Denon x2300w
XBox One S
Sony BDP-S6500
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post #7274 of 7287 Old 02-21-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post
Tom what are your recommended settings under ChromaPure Options/ Meters/Display 3?
I have my I1D3 Pro set to
Measurement Mode CRT
Integration time 0.9 seconds, any lower and my 0% stimulus reads 0.003ftL for the mll, its a Panasonic ST60, 0.9 seconds 0% stimulus reads 0.002ftL mll which is what these measure at.
Normal Read Mode
1 cdm2 low light threshold
3 Number of measurements

Also what do you do to combat IR during calibration so your measurements are not affected due to having the patterns on the screen for so long? I think that sometimes IR could be affecting my measurements because I've had been calibrating for so long , since the process is so iterative.
That sounds fine.
You just have to make sure that you don't linger on any one test pattern too long.

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post #7275 of 7287 Old 02-21-2017, 10:28 PM
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When to use Rec 2020 - Gamma & Gamut settings?

Hi Guys. I'm calibrating (trying to) with Chromapure 3 and the Chromapure disc. My TV is an LG OLED B6, receiver is Denon x2300w, and I'm currently using the Xbox One S for UHD. I noticed in the settings that there is an option in Gamut for Rec 2020. Should I be using that instead of Rec709 with this setup? Also I noticed that there is a Gamma option for BT.1886. Should I be using that instead of 2.2 in the settings and should that match my TV setting? Very confused. Help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Denon x2300w
XBox One S
Sony BDP-S6500
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post #7276 of 7287 Old 02-21-2017, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post
Hi Guys. I'm calibrating (trying to) with Chromapure 3 and the Chromapure disc. My TV is an LG OLED B6, receiver is Denon x2300w, and I'm currently using the Xbox One S for UHD. I noticed in the settings that there is an option in Gamut for Rec 2020. Should I be using that instead of Rec709 with this setup? Also I noticed that there is a Gamma option for BT.1886. Should I be using that instead of 2.2 in the settings and should that match my TV setting? Very confused. Help would be appreciated. Thanks.
If you will be watching both UHD and HD sources, then you need two separate calibrations. The CP disc is for HD only. Use Rec. 709/BT.1886 (or 2.22). For UHD sources, you need Ryan Masiola's test patterns and select Rec. 2020/HDR. Calibrate to 50% Saturation/50% Intensity Rec. 2020 in Color Management.

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post #7277 of 7287 Old 02-22-2017, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
If you will be watching both UHD and HD sources, then you need two separate calibrations. The CP disc is for HD only. Use Rec. 709/BT.1886 (or 2.22). For UHD sources, you need Ryan Masiola's test patterns and select Rec. 2020/HDR. Calibrate to 50% Saturation/50% Intensity Rec. 2020 in Color Management.
Thanks for the reply Tom. Very much appreciated. I think I'm still a bit confused. If I'm using a device (specifically Xbox One S in this situation) that upscales everything to 4k, would I want to use Ryan's or your disc and which parts? HDR content would be obvious as my TV will switch to HDR when it gets that information from a disc but what about for the Blu Ray player that upscales everything? Would I rely on BT.1866 or Rec. 2020 and which Sat level? Thank you!

Denon x2300w
XBox One S
Sony BDP-S6500
Apple TV4
LG OLED65B6p
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post #7278 of 7287 Old 02-22-2017, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post
Thanks for the reply Tom. Very much appreciated. I think I'm still a bit confused. If I'm using a device (specifically Xbox One S in this situation) that upscales everything to 4k, would I want to use Ryan's or your disc and which parts? HDR content would be obvious as my TV will switch to HDR when it gets that information from a disc but what about for the Blu Ray player that upscales everything? Would I rely on BT.1866 or Rec. 2020 and which Sat level? Thank you!
Except for a few test patterns, the resolution is not relevant to the calibration, so upscaling is a non-issue. What is important is HDR. That requires specialized test patterns.
Use the CP disc for HD calibrations (again, upscaling doesn't matter). Use Rec. 709 and BT.1886 or 2.22.
Use Masciola's disc for HDR/Rec. 2020 calibrations. Use 2020 and HDR. For color use 50% sat, 50% intensity.

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post #7279 of 7287 Old 02-23-2017, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Except for a few test patterns, the resolution is not relevant to the calibration, so upscaling is a non-issue. What is important is HDR. That requires specialized test patterns.
Use the CP disc for HD calibrations (again, upscaling doesn't matter). Use Rec. 709 and BT.1886 or 2.22.
Use Masciola's disc for HDR/Rec. 2020 calibrations. Use 2020 and HDR. For color use 50% sat, 50% intensity.
Thank you Tom. Let me make sure I have this all correct:

For standard HD calibration (Blu Ray player, roku, anything that IS NOT HDR) I would do the following:
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamut tab I would set this for Rec. 709
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamma Tab I would set this for 2.2

Do I set the TV Gamma setting to 2.2 as well I'm assuming?

For UHD
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamut tab - Set for Rec 2020
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamma tab - Set for HDR10

TV setting for Gamma is grayed out when it sees HDR so I'm assuming that will match up with the HDR10 settings for Gamma in the application?

Other questions I have:

1. Do I change any setting in the application when calibrating UHD? You mention using the 50% slides but should anything change in CP?
2. Under Initial setup in Chromapure\Signal Generators, What should the color intensity be set for when calibrating both HD and UHD when my source is either CP or Ryan's disc? The default looks like it's 75%.
3. Ryan's Advanced Pattern disc (non UHD) indicates at the bottom of the screen 1920 x 1080p 23.976hz, does that mean that when I use that disc that the Sync Ra setting in CP should be 24Hz?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Except for a few test patterns, the resolution is not relevant to the calibration, so upscaling is a non-issue. What is important is HDR. That requires specialized test patterns.
Use the CP disc for HD calibrations (again, upscaling doesn't matter). Use Rec. 709 and BT.1886 or 2.22.
Use Masciola's disc for HDR/Rec. 2020 calibrations. Use 2020 and HDR. For color use 50% sat, 50% intensity.

Denon x2300w
XBox One S
Sony BDP-S6500
Apple TV4
LG OLED65B6p
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post #7280 of 7287 Old Yesterday, 02:14 AM
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I'm trying to calibrate an old Samsung UE40F7000 TV that's recently come back from being repaired. They said they'd replaced both boards in the TV (it was violently flickering when in 3D, which is now fixed). Anyways, I've been trying to set the white balance. Using the 2-point WB setting the RGB Gain and Offset work exactly as I'd expect - using RGB gain at 80%, and RGB offset at 20%. And doing this I get really well balanced R G B with the error down to 1.0 or so on both 20 and 80%. When I then do an all point white balance test all the other settings are still well out (though 20% and 80% are still fine). So I move onto the ten-point settings, expecting to be able to mess with the R G B settings in the same way as before and bring all the other percentages into line, but absolutely nothing happens using the continuous reading setting. Doesn't seem to matter how extreme I move the R or G or B settings no change whatsoever is being registered on the meter. I'm assuming that 1 = 10% and 10 = 100% but it doesn't seem to matter what percentage pattern I try with what number on the 1 to 10 scale I pick. Changing any of the primary colours doesn't change anything on the meter reading at all. Is it possible that somehow in the repair they managed to switch off the TV's ability to set ten-point white balancing, or am I fundamentlly misunderstanding something about either the set or Chromapure and how to set ten-point white balance?
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post #7281 of 7287 Old Yesterday, 04:05 AM
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Nah, scratch all that. Went back and tried again and this time is worked exactly as expected, I have no idea why (other than pilot error, which is always an option). Got a near pefect white balance across the board this time. Now all I have to master is messing about with the Gamma and perfecting juggling with the colours, which don't seem to want to wrangle into place half the time, but I'll persevere and get there in the end.
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post #7282 of 7287 Old Yesterday, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post
For standard HD calibration (Blu Ray player, roku, anything that IS NOT HDR) I would do the following:
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamut tab I would set this for Rec. 709
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamma Tab I would set this for 2.2
Do I set the TV Gamma setting to 2.2 as well I'm assuming?
Or BT.1886. Try each. See which one you prefer. If that setting gets you closest to 2.2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post
For UHD
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamut tab - Set for Rec 2020
- Chromapure Application settings\Gamma tab - Set for HDR10

TV setting for Gamma is grayed out when it sees HDR so I'm assuming that will match up with the HDR10 settings for Gamma in the application?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post
Other questions I have:

1. Do I change any setting in the application when calibrating UHD? You mention using the 50% slides but should anything change in CP?
2. Under Initial setup in Chromapure\Signal Generators, What should the color intensity be set for when calibrating both HD and UHD when my source is either CP or Ryan's disc? The default looks like it's 75%.
3. Ryan's Advanced Pattern disc (non UHD) indicates at the bottom of the screen 1920 x 1080p 23.976hz, does that mean that when I use that disc that the Sync Ra setting in CP should be 24Hz?
The second questions answers the first. If you use 50% intensity test patterns, then set the application to 50% intensity.
Only if the TV is set to output 24Hz.

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post #7283 of 7287 Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
What Intensity level were you set at and what level of color and white reference test patterns did you use?
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Or BT.1886. Try each. See which one you prefer. If that setting gets you closest to 2.2.

Yes.

The second questions answers the first. If you use 50% intensity test patterns, then set the application to 50% intensity.
Only if the TV is set to output 24Hz.
Thank you for the answers Tom. Very helpful. I have an LG OLED B6 which has the option for 24Hz as "RealCinema" so it kicks in when it gets 24Hz signal but unfortunately there is no way that I've found that will tell me whether or not it's actually on. Closest I can tell is that the option SEEMS to be grayed out when I'm not using a 24Hz source and is optional when I'm using a known 24Hz signal. I'm assuming that Ryan's disc is a 24Hz source and the CP disc is not. Therefore, I'm assuming that when using Ryan's Disc, I should set CP application to 24Hz and when using the CP disc I should not.

Denon x2300w
XBox One S
Sony BDP-S6500
Apple TV4
LG OLED65B6p
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post #7284 of 7287 Old Today, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeroDegre View Post
3) My TV seems to be capable of HDR-10, should I get "R.Masciola's HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns" to calibrate my HDR mode, or AVS HD 709 is fine, since my meter is not HDR capable like the SpectraCal C6-HDR?
Hi, SpectraCAL C6-HDR has the exact the same firmware (different internal meter unlocking code only..to operate the meter) and hardware like your meter, the X-Rite i1Display PRO.

See there for more details: 2016 Vizio P Series Calibration Thread

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #7285 of 7287 Old Today, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Or BT.1886. Try each. See which one you prefer. If that setting gets you closest to 2.2.

Yes.

The second questions answers the first. If you use 50% intensity test patterns, then set the application to 50% intensity.
Only if the TV is set to output 24Hz.
If I'm running through Curt Palme's Chrompure for dummies (HD not UHD part), what's the color intensity supposed to be set at? Default is 75%. I think I forgot to ask that in my other posts. Lastly, in what part of that walkthrough (or others) does that have to change/match my slides? I guess I'm confused on exactly what that setting is, when to change it, and what it applies to. Thanks.

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post #7286 of 7287 Old Today, 05:49 PM
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Usually you use 75% intensity and 100% saturation when it comes to calibrating your color using your CMS controls. You focus on getting Lightness, Saturation and Hue as close to 0% as possible and look to get a combination of error for Lightness , Saturation and Hue to give you the lowest dE possible. For the primary colors get the Lightness error as low as possible and sacrifice the other two if you have to choose between all three. For the secondaries Hue is of most importance. After you have calibrated the colors check by doing a saturation sweep using the Advanced Color management module in ChromaPure to see if the lower saturation colors hit their targets ex: 25%, 50% and 75% displaying the appropriate patterns. Don't forget to change the intensity to 75% otherwise the errors will be grater since you will be using 75% intensity patterns but in the Advanced Color management module it is set to 100% intensity by default.

If you find that the lower saturation points don't track well then you might have to re calibrate your colors using 75% amplitude, lightness or intensity they all mean the same thing. and 75% saturation to get the lower saturation points to track better. In this case you would have to change in the options setting the color gamut to 75% of Rec.709 this will display the correct targets for the chosen gamut in the Color Management module. When you do your post Gamut measurement, don't forget to switch back to Rec.709 for the color gamut in the options settings. You always use 75% intensity.

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post #7287 of 7287 Old Today, 06:15 PM
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Check out this guide too , it's by Tom Huffman.
Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced)
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