The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 244 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7291 of 7322 Old 02-28-2017, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkAnne View Post
Sadly it doesn't have an Energy Saving setting (too old I guess, unlike my newer LG TV set which does). I've got everything else switched off too such as smoothing and filtering and artificial darkening etc. Using Brightness and Backlight I've set the Y luminance to 120 cd/m2 too, but no matter what I do the Gamma curve doesn't come close to the 2.2 target line. It's puzzling and doesn't match what I'm reading on how to do things, whereas everything else seems to tally as written by Kal of CurtPalme GrayScale and Color Calibration for dummies guide.
First, select the Movie Picture mode.
Second, select Screen Fit Picture Size (won't affect gamma, but recommended for different reasons).
Third, it does have an Energy Saving setting and it should be turned off. System, Eco Solution, Energy Saving.
Finally, under Advanced Settings:
Select Custom Color Space (This allows you to use the built-in CMS).
Set the Gamma control at 0.
Turn on the 10pt White Balance control. Use the Green control to raise or lower the gamma at each point (and, yes, each point corresponds to a % Video). Raising green lowers gamma and lowering green raises gamma. After the gamma is set properly, use the R and B controls to restore proper white balance at each point. This will have a minimal effect on gamma.
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post #7292 of 7322 Old 02-28-2017, 07:22 AM
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Excellent, cheers, Tom, I had actually read some more just this morning and discovered that the Green has a major effect on Gamma, and that I was of course forgetting that the Gamma is inversed (the lower, the brighter). In Kal's guide it doesn't mention using the Green to control Gamma and specifically says to just adjust the Red and Blue to balance White so I didn't make the connection that Green is the key to lifting or lowering the Gamma. In fact it was your response later on in that same thread for Kal's guide that you answer someone else's question about why do you leave the Green alone? and you said because of its impact on Gamma. Then it all fell into place (though I've been fooled by faux-epiphanies before!)

I can only play with the set in the mornings as it's used in the afternoon and evening so I've been messing about with it for a few hours each morning, getting terrible end picture results (though the white balance was much better than before) and having to reset it back to standard for it to be used again. Hopefully my new insight will help me with tomorrow's attempt.

And just to make sure - in White Balance Point 1 = 10%, Point 8 = 80%, yes? I'm guessing the 5% is in there for TVs (or video processors) that have more than a 10 point Gamma control system?

And yes, of course you're right that there is an Eco Solution under System Settings. I was looking for it in the Picture settings (it was actually switched off by default anyway), so thanks for that also, and my apologies to tvofan.

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post #7293 of 7322 Old 02-28-2017, 08:10 AM
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OLED 2 point settings vs 20 point settings

Hi guys. I'm wondering, when I have my TV set for 2 point white balance vs 20 point IRE....Does the "high" setting in the 2 point setting correspond to the "80" setting when I have it set for 20 point IRE?

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post #7294 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 04:16 AM
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Hi guys. I'm wondering, when I have my TV set for 2 point white balance vs 20 point IRE....Does the "high" setting in the 2 point setting correspond to the "80" setting when I have it set for 20 point IRE?
Hi, when you have only a 2-Point RGB balance and you have to fix the whole Grayscale's RGB balance/gamma, then you can use the two x% patterns which will provide you better results totally. This need some testing to see which ones are better...for example 100-30, 100-20, 80-20, 80-30 or any other combination you will see that has better performance.

When you have 2-Point and 10-20-Point controls additionally then look this post: Is 2-point required if using 10-point?

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #7295 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, when you have only a 2-Point RGB balance and you have to fix the whole Grayscale's RGB balance/gamma, then you can use the two x% patterns which will provide you better results totally. This need some testing to see which ones are better...for example 100-30, 100-20, 80-20, 80-30 or any other combination you will see that has better performance.

When you have 2-Point and 10-20-Point controls additionally then look this post: Is 2-point required if using 10-point?
Okay so I have an OLED B6 which has both 2 point and 20 point. You're saying use the 2 point against an 80 and 20 slide (for example) then switch my set over to 20 point and hit the bad spots (RGB not aligned). Right? That link to your other post was great. Thank you as always for your help Ted. Very much appreciated.

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post #7296 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 07:41 AM
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CMS Calibration - Totally ruined my colors. What did I do wrong?

Hi guys. So, for the first time ever, I did a CMS calibration on my OLED. First time because this is the first set that I've had with proper CMS. I used the HSL setting for Color Space as that is the closest of the three options which matched up to the labels on my set for CMS which are Saturation, Tint, and Luminance for each color which I matched up with Saturation, Hue, and Lightness respectively in the Chromapure Color Management module. Are those correct match for the HSL graph which shows Lightness, Saturation, and Hue?

I went through Curt Palme walkthrough and got my Saturation, Hue (Labelled Tint on my set I'm assuming), and Lightness (Labelled luminance on my set which I'm assuming) and got all the bars pretty even at 0 error. I popped in a blu ray and it was TOTALLY WRONG. How is that possible? There are like weird squares everywhere and people's lips are like super dark purple and incredibly bland looking. Sometimes I'm doing is definitely wrong. Does that sound like anything anyone can point a finger to? I used the 6.5% window and 75% slides for all primary and secondary colors. I went back through that walkthrough and don't see that I missed anything in that portion of the walkthrough. Any ideas? Thanks.

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post #7297 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post
Okay so I have an OLED B6 which has both 2 point and 20 point. You're saying use the 2 point against an 80 and 20 slide (for example) then switch my set over to 20 point and hit the bad spots (RGB not aligned). Right? That link to your other post was great. Thank you as always for your help Ted. Very much appreciated.
Since you have LG OLED, use 2-Point with 100% White and 5% Gray, it will provide you the best results...and then move to 20-Point and don't touch the 5% Gray there...since it's already calibrated from 2-Point adjustments.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #7298 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Since you have LG OLED, use 2-Point with 100% White and 5% Gray, it will provide you the best results...and then move to 20-Point and don't touch the 5% Gray there...since it's already calibrated from 2-Point adjustments.
Gotcha. Thank you very much! If you can add any insight to the CMS post I added right below this I would appreciate it. I'm totally stumped.

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post #7299 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 08:19 AM
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Gotcha. Thank you very much! If you can add any insight to the CMS post I added right below this I would appreciate it. I'm totally stumped.
CMS is broken to LG OLED's, don't loose your time calibrating CMS there, even if the charts will look good after some adjusment, when you will watch real content you will have a totally wrong picture with many problems introduced.

Also you will be able to see problems if you look color reproduction patterns, like the one below (from my calibration disk, if you have it):


Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
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post #7300 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
CMS is broken to LG OLED's, don't loose your time calibrating CMS there, even if the charts will look good after some adjusment, when you will watch real content you will have a totally wrong picture with many problems introduced.

Also you will be able to see problems if you look color reproduction patterns, like the one below (from my calibration disk, if you have it):

So you are saying the LG OLED CMS system is totally broken and it will not work at all and I shouldn't bother one bit and leave it all at factory settings? Is that for all content (HD vs UHD)? That seems shocking to me! How could they do that?

I do indeed have your disc but I'll be honest, not sure what you're showing me with that picture I'm a novice, a very annoying person for someone like you

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post #7301 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by FuzzyReets View Post
So you are saying the LG OLED CMS system is totally broken and it will not work at all and I shouldn't bother one bit and leave it all at factory settings? Is that for all content (HD vs UHD)? That seems shocking to me! How could they do that?

I do indeed have your disc but I'll be honest, not sure what you're showing me with that picture I'm a novice, a very annoying person for someone like you
Yes's LG CMS is broken, not only to these OLED's but to older LG models also. I don't like the degradation of using LG's CMS, so I keep the default settings, after correcting grayscale/gamma you can have similar level of color performance like the measurements below (sorry for using screenshots from CalMAN):







If you want to have very low average error; about 0.3 - 0.5 dE2000 at any chart, you have to move to 3D LUT solutions where it's been calibrated multiple levels saturation/luminance/hue levels, so you will have the best possible performance to any post-calibration verification report.

The Pattern I posted to you above it's available to the Color Reproduction -> Page 5:



Display it and start adjusting the CMS controls to see the introduced problems, there other patterns you can check also, with color ramps etc.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #7302 of 7322 Old 03-01-2017, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Yes's LG CMS is broken, not only to these OLED's but to older LG models also. I don't like the degradation of using LG's CMS, so I keep the default settings, after correcting grayscale/gamma you can have similar level of color performance like the measurements below (sorry for using screenshots from CalMAN):







If you want to have very low average error; about 0.3 - 0.5 dE2000 at any chart, you have to move to 3D LUT solutions where it's been calibrated multiple levels saturation/luminance/hue levels, so you will have the best possible performance to any post-calibration verification report.

The Pattern I posted to you above it's available to the Color Reproduction -> Page 5:



Display it and start adjusting the CMS controls to see the introduced problems, there other patterns you can check also, with color ramps etc.
Thanks Ted. Would it be beneficial to at least run through the Color/Tint calibration from Curt's calibration walkthrough or is that broken as well? Thank you again.

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post #7303 of 7322 Old 03-02-2017, 12:22 AM
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Would it be beneficial to at least run through the Color/Tint calibration from Curt's calibration walkthrough or is that broken as well? Thank you again.
Sure. That doesn't involve the CMS--just the main Color and Tint controls.

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post #7304 of 7322 Old 03-02-2017, 02:24 AM
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Thanks Ted. Would it be beneficial to at least run through the Color/Tint calibration from Curt's calibration walkthrough or is that broken as well? Thank you again.
Hi, you can try but always verify with measurements/color reproduction patterns and real content the results. dE report is one part of the calibration success to these models.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #7305 of 7322 Old 03-02-2017, 04:54 PM
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Hi, you can try but always verify with measurements/color reproduction patterns and real content the results. dE report is one part of the calibration success to these models.
Thanks Ted. I'm wondering something else now that I thought about it. If I'm using your disc and calibrating with 1080p source for my OLED, what should my TV's Color Gamut setting be. This whole time I've had them on "Wide". My options are Wide, Extended, and Normal. I'm wondering if that is throwing my color off. What should it be for 1080? I'm starting to think the "Wide" setting is for HDR only and maybe having it set for "Wide" when I'm using a non HDR/1080p source is screwing things up. Very curious about this. Post report attached. I thought the colors would be way closer even without the CMS. Thanks.
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post #7306 of 7322 Old 03-02-2017, 05:14 PM
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Thanks Ted. I'm wondering something else now that I thought about it. If I'm using your disc and calibrating with 1080p source for my OLED, what should my TV's Color Gamut setting be. This whole time I've had them on "Wide". My options are Wide, Extended, and Normal. I'm wondering if that is throwing my color off. What should it be for 1080? I'm starting to think the "Wide" setting is for HDR only and maybe having it set for "Wide" when I'm using a non HDR/1080p source is screwing things up. Very curious about this. Post report attached. I thought the colors would be way closer even without the CMS. Thanks.
Hi, Normal Gamut is the correct setting for SDR.

Normal will provide a slight oversaturated REC.709 coverage while Wide will provide the largest possible (native) so it will oversaturate a lot the colors if you watching HD/Full HD content (blu-ray/sat/cable etc..) which use REC.709.

Here is the CIE Chart of LG 65E6, Wide Gamut @ SDR:



Here is the CIE Chart of Normal Gamut @ SDR:



LG has put the Wide option @ SDR mode for a reason, since these displays are not only a great choice for consumer market but there also selling to professional market.

There post-production studios which have started to replace their older plasma or grade 1 LCD with these LG's (for client view mainly), so they use Wide option there; for SDR @ ISF mode to calibrate for DCI-P3 or use 3D LUT display characterization to provide the best possible color accuracy; bypassing LG's poor parametric CMS controls.

For HDR mode, about Normal vs. Wide, both will provide the same (native primaries) gamut coverage, the largest these TV's can display, but the problem is that in Wide it's boosting the lower saturation levels (make them more saturated), so for HDR the Normal is the only correct setting.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
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post #7307 of 7322 Old 03-02-2017, 05:49 PM
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Hi, Normal Gamut is the correct setting for SDR.

Normal will provide a slight oversaturated REC.709 coverage while Wide will provide the largest possible (native) so it will oversaturate a lot the colors if you watching HD/Full HD content (blu-ray/sat/cable etc..) which use REC.709.

Here is the CIE Chart of LG 65E6, Wide Gamut @ SDR:



Here is the CIE Chart of Normal Gamut @ SDR:



LG has put the Wide option @ SDR mode for a reason, since these displays are not only a great choice for consumer market but there also selling to professional market.

There post-production studios which have started to replace their older plasma or grade 1 LCD with these LG's (for client view mainly), so they use Wide option there; for SDR @ ISF mode to calibrate for DCI-P3 or use 3D LUT display characterization to provide the best possible color accuracy; bypassing LG's poor parametric CMS controls.

For HDR mode, about Normal vs. Wide, both will provide the same (native primaries) gamut coverage, the largest these TV's can display, but the problem is that in Wide it's boosting the lower saturation levels (make them more saturated), so for HDR the Normal is the only correct setting.
VERY ineteresting Ted. I can see how turning on Normal gamut tightens everything up there where it should be. I was under the impression that it had to be set to Wide to get the expanded color range that HDR provides but that sounds like it is incorrect. So if I get what you're saying right, set it to Normal for EVERYTHING; BluRay, DVD, 4k BluRay, 4k HDR Blu Ray, Dolby Vision, etc. EVERYTHING. Right?

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post #7308 of 7322 Old 03-02-2017, 05:53 PM
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VERY ineteresting Ted. I can see how turning on Normal gamut tightens everything up there where it should be. I was under the impression that it had to be set to Wide to get the expanded color range that HDR provides but that sounds like it is incorrect. So if I get what you're saying right, set it to Normal for EVERYTHING; BluRay, DVD, 4k BluRay, 4k HDR Blu Ray, Dolby Vision, etc. EVERYTHING. Right?
Yes, use Normal (for Dolby Vision I haven't checked anything...I was not interested...BTW the RGB balance controls are disabled in DV mode)

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
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post #7309 of 7322 Old 03-03-2017, 07:20 AM
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Yes, use Normal (for Dolby Vision I haven't checked anything...I was not interested...BTW the RGB balance controls are disabled in DV mode)
Thank you Ted. Again, much appreciated. I guess I'll be recalibrating this weekend using Normal Gamut setting! Many thanks.

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I've asked this before but have yet to get a definitive answer. Can anyone confirm that in ten point white balance on a Samsung LCD LED that White Balance Interval 1 = 10%, all the way up to Interval 10 = 100%? And if this is so, why does Chromapure on its Gamma page start at 5% and stop at 90%? Sorry to keep asking this but it's still not totally clear to me.

Also, can anyone say what is likely happening when dark shadow detail is being uniformly turned jet black? It's not like the set is producing terrific blacks, it's more that it appears to be switching off all colours completely when it gets below a certain threshold. This has the odd visual effect of strange small black chunks of the picture where there should be shadow detail but instead there's like a black hole in the picture
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post #7311 of 7322 Old 03-04-2017, 10:58 AM
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I've asked this before but have yet to get a definitive answer. Can anyone confirm that in ten point white balance on a Samsung LCD LED that White Balance Interval 1 = 10%, all the way up to Interval 10 = 100%? And if this is so, why does Chromapure on its Gamma page start at 5% and stop at 90%? Sorry to keep asking this but it's still not totally clear to me.

That is correct, interval 1=10%, interval 2=20% and so on. Gamma is calculated based on what your 100% measurement is. Only 90% and below has a gamma value. 100% is the reference. Then all the other intervals are based off of the 100% reading.

Make sure you keep the Contrast on your Samsung in the high 90's, adjust your peak light output using your Backlight. Set Brightness with a Black Clipping Pattern , 16 invisible and 17 flashing.

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post #7312 of 7322 Old 03-04-2017, 02:25 PM
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Excellent thanks very much Hungro, that all makes perfect sense. As for the brightness settings, I've pretty much already got those settings as you suggest, yet I'm still getting the black holes, as it were.
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post #7313 of 7322 Old 03-05-2017, 07:18 AM
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I've asked this before but have yet to get a definitive answer. Can anyone confirm that in ten point white balance on a Samsung LCD LED that White Balance Interval 1 = 10%, all the way up to Interval 10 = 100%? And if this is so, why does Chromapure on its Gamma page start at 5% and stop at 90%? Sorry to keep asking this but it's still not totally clear to me.

Also, can anyone say what is likely happening when dark shadow detail is being uniformly turned jet black? It's not like the set is producing terrific blacks, it's more that it appears to be switching off all colours completely when it gets below a certain threshold. This has the odd visual effect of strange small black chunks of the picture where there should be shadow detail but instead there's like a black hole in the picture
Hi, About your Samsung (and other displays also), sometimes when you do 10-Point Grayscale (or 20-Point when they are available) adjusting the internal RGB Balance controls, to some displays when you change the brightness/contrast setting from it's default settings (of from max contrast setting), this creates a un-alignment of the calibration controls to the areas they are affecting...for example you can display a 55% pattern, to change RGB balance and your changes to interact to 52% or to 58% Gray etc....and not so much to the 55% you are displaying/tweaking.

So doing full grayscale runs and adjusting after looking the charts it will be a better idea.

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post #7314 of 7322 Old 03-06-2017, 04:43 AM
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Right, thanks that makes sense, it does often seem pretty arbitary about exactly what gets adjusted when you're tweaking things.

As a further question, and possibly a bit outside the scope of this thread, does anyone know what the difference is (if any) between the 'Factory Reset' available to users compared to the 'Factory Reset' that's apparently available in the service menu of the TV?
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post #7315 of 7322 Old 03-20-2017, 08:00 AM
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i1diplay meter question

So far I have read place the meter 1.5 times screen height from the screen( calman) and 1-2 feet from the screen ( chromapure).

For direct measurement off the projector no distance suggested except use the filter.

I'm using the i1Display Pro with the Chromapure Autocal and Lumagen pro. With the JVC software and Spyder4 it was easy. Face the light meter at the projector, the program
shows when you are in the correct postion....too easy. The X-rite not so easy and I have conflicting information. Would be nice to have the same kind of process intergrated into
the Chromapure.

Can someone advise the "best" position ( off screen or projector ) , with or without filter and any other tips ? Looking for distance from screen or projector and with or without filter .

I have both the Sony VW675ES and JVC RS600 , my screen is a curved 134', 2.35:1 with 1.8 gain . My windows color/field patterns being displayed only 102" diagonal 16:9 during the test.

Any suggestions for best calibration presets for the Sony and JVC welcome.

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post #7316 of 7322 Old 03-20-2017, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxiedog13 View Post
So far I have read place the meter 1.5 times screen height from the screen( calman) and 1-2 feet from the screen ( chromapure).

For direct measurement off the projector no distance suggested except use the filter.

I'm using the i1Display Pro with the Chromapure Autocal and Lumagen pro. With the JVC software and Spyder4 it was easy. Face the light meter at the projector, the program
shows when you are in the correct postion....too easy. The X-rite not so easy and I have conflicting information. Would be nice to have the same kind of process intergrated into
the Chromapure.

Can someone advise the "best" position ( off screen or projector ) , with or without filter and any other tips ? Looking for distance from screen or projector and with or without filter .

I have both the Sony VW675ES and JVC RS600 , my screen is a curved 134', 2.35:1 with 1.8 gain . My windows color/field patterns being displayed only 102" diagonal 16:9 during the test.

Any suggestions for best calibration presets for the Sony and JVC welcome.
A lot of this is covered in the Chromapure manual and some of it is a matter of preference (point at screen or point at projector). By pointing at the screen, you calibrate for any coloration the screen may add to the image (usually minimal). By pointing at the projector (always use diffuser if aimed at projector), you get enough brightness to accurately calibrate the low luminance levels. As Tom suggests in the manual, you can create a correction offset for the screen, plug it in to Chromapure, and then calibrate off the projector for the best of both worlds. Again, this is all covered in the manual.

For my JVC projector and Carada neutral-gain screen, I tend to calibrate off the screen. I place the i1DisplayPro about a foot or two from the screen and angle it to obtain the highest Y reading off a 100% luminance pattern (you want to aim above the shadow of the i1DisplayPro). I then run the auto-cal program (which is brilliant), and then maybe do some fine tuning. Image is always amazing.

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post #7317 of 7322 Old 03-20-2017, 10:36 AM
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Is there a recommended distance for measuring an LG B6 OLED display with the i1Display and I1Pro meters ?

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Is there a recommended distance for measuring an LG B6 OLED display with the i1Display and I1Pro meters ?

- Rich
Hi Rich,

Each meter's optics have its' own FOV (Field of View), 2 meters with the same distance from the screen, they see different area of pixels.

Mounting the i1Display/i1PRO1/2 to an OLED or to any display is not a good idea, it's better to use the tripod mount accessory and take only non-contact measurements.

EBU TECH.3325 Publication (Methods for the Measurement of the performance of Studio Monitors) recommends the distance measuring geometry rather than the contact method.

If you have 10cm distance (or larger) from the panel it will be good, we don't need the panel to transfer it's heat to the meter. Usually users confuse warm up (it's doesn't mean to let the meter on-contact with the display to become warmer from display's hear, warm up means the meter to be connected and powered from the USB, not become warm from the panel..just leave their USB plug connected with your notebook for some time before starting measurements. The recommended warm up time is about 20-30 min. The exact time depends from the temperature conditions. It can be longer if the device came from out side in winter time and will be shorter if stored at room temperature.

If you check JETI, PhotoResearch,Minolta, reference meters, none of them is measuring in contact mode.

Hi-end spectro's with 1/2° can't measure in contact mode without specific accessory attached.

For example Minolta CS-2000A min. measuring meter placement distance is 35cm (or 5,5 cm when using close-up lens).

Photoresearch PR-680 needs 10 foot (3.05 m) long probe designed for contact measurements of luminance to provide 13.2 mm measuring area.

For example, my Klein K-10A without any accessory attached, with 10cm distance from the panel it measures an area of 5cm (FOV), to measure the same area with my JETI 1211, I have to place it with 161cm from the panel.

JETI 1211 has 1.8° FOV and is closer to SMPTE recommendation from any other instrument.

SMPTE recommends to take readings from the viewing position, but that's is not possible for the consumer probes, you need an instrument with ~2.0° field of view.

Also there some published documents that suggesting to measure about 100 pixels minimum for display calibration which is not possible for some meter in contact mode.

A high-end spectro with a viewing optics (like PhotoResearch or Minolta) or with laser aiming (like JETI) with narrow viewing angle for this job.

As you can see from the following Chart (created by <^..^>Smokey Joe), the JETI (1.8°) is closer to SMPTE recommendation from any other instrument.



The display need some warm up period also, about one hour, to stabilize, LG OLED's; the first minutes ares darker (higher gamma) until about 40-50 minutes the gamma will be changing....about 50-60 minutes...they are more stable.

If you want to match your meters measuring pixel area (FOV) of your meters (i1DisplayPRO - i1PRO1/2), for an area of pixels of 25mm diameter, for i1PRO1/2 you have to place the meter with 17,8cm from your screen and your i1DisplayPRO with 13,6cm distance from the screen. You can do the calculations for different distances from your screen.

FOV is important for displays that have uniformity issues, so it's better to measure the same spot when you do your meter profiling.
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Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #7319 of 7322 Old 04-04-2017, 06:49 AM
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Great information. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I've saved this to my folder of "Calibration Tips."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi Rich,

Each meter's optics have its' own FOV (Field of View), 2 meters with the same distance from the screen, they see different area of pixels.

Mounting the i1Display/i1PRO1/2 to an OLED or to any display is not a good idea, it's better to use the tripod mount accessory and take only non-contact measurements.

EBU TECH.3325 Publication (Methods for the Measurement of the performance of Studio Monitors) recommends the distance measuring geometry rather than the contact method.

If you have 10cm distance (or larger) from the panel it will be good, we don't need the panel to transfer it's heat to the meter. Usually users confuse warm up (it's doesn't mean to let the meter on-contact with the display to become warmer from display's hear, warm up means the meter to be connected and powered from the USB, not become warm from the panel..just leave their USB plug connected with your notebook for some time before starting measurements. The recommended warm up time is about 20-30 min. The exact time depends from the temperature conditions. It can be longer if the device came from out side in winter time and will be shorter if stored at room temperature.

If you check JETI, PhotoResearch,Minolta, reference meters, none of them is measuring in contact mode.

Hi-end spectro's with 1/2° can't measure in contact mode without specific accessory attached.

For example Minolta CS-2000A min. measuring meter placement distance is 35cm (or 5,5 cm when using close-up lens).

Photoresearch PR-680 needs 10 foot (3.05 m) long probe designed for contact measurements of luminance to provide 13.2 mm measuring area.

For example, my Klein K-10A without any accessory attached, with 10cm distance from the panel it measures an area of 5cm (FOV), to measure the same area with my JETI 1211, I have to place it with 161cm from the panel.

JETI 1211 has 1.8° FOV and is closer to SMPTE recommendation from any other instrument.

SMPTE recommends to take readings from the viewing position, but that's is not possible for the consumer probes, you need an instrument with ~2.0° field of view.

Also there some published documents that suggesting to measure about 100 pixels minimum for display calibration which is not possible for some meter in contact mode.

A high-end spectro with a viewing optics (like PhotoResearch or Minolta) or with laser aiming (like JETI) with narrow viewing angle for this job.

As you can see from the following Chart (created by <^..^>Smokey Joe), the JETI (1.8°) is closer to SMPTE recommendation from any other instrument.



The display need some warm up period also, about one hour, to stabilize, LG OLED's; the first minutes ares darker (higher gamma) until about 40-50 minutes the gamma will be changing....about 50-60 minutes...they are more stable.

If you want to match your meters measuring pixel area (FOV) of your meters (i1DisplayPRO - i1PRO1/2), for an area of pixels of 25mm diameter, for i1PRO1/2 you have to place the meter with 17,8cm from your screen and your i1DisplayPRO with 13,6cm distance from the screen. You can do the calculations for different distances from your screen.

FOV is important for displays that have uniformity issues, so it's better to measure the same spot when you do your meter profiling.
Ted,

The link in your sig is not working.

bob
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