The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5663 Old 10-11-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbeenl View Post

I know, build-in patterns are working fine but that's not what i want to use because
Quote:


i am in doubt to use the laptop HDMI to calibrate screens.

Yes, laptops can contaminate the the video output although my laptop with HDMI out seems to reproduce the internal patterns without
alteration.

I want to calibrate the total chain and not my laptop as a source

Heey leuk trouwens !!.
Waar heb je zelf gewoond?

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Email Tom Huffman and suggest a version of his NTSC pattern disc download with the expanded pattern set is what you need with ChromaPure 2 Pro.

My Amsterdam favorites, the Peking and sometimes the Bali. Love Reistafel, Nasi Goreng, Sate Babi, Sate Ajam and Sate Udang and Kroepoek, always with Peanut sauce.

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post #722 of 5663 Old 10-12-2010, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

Hilversum, Amsterdam en Den Haag.
Email Tom Huffman and suggest a version of his NTSC pattern disc download with the expanded pattern set is what you need with ChromaPure 2 Pro.

My Amsterdam favorites, the Peking and sometimes the Bali. Love Reistafel, Nasi Goreng, Sate Babi, Sate Ajam and Sate Udang and Kroepoek, always with Peanut sauce.


First thing i am gonna try is to make a disk myself with all the needed patterns just to experiment and maybe later i will come back on the subject if it fails

Hier trouwens Arnhem ..enne klinkt allemaal lekker, binnenkort weer naar de toko .... Selamat Makan

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post #723 of 5663 Old 10-12-2010, 10:35 AM
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Can someone with version 2 address the following:

I was looking at the demo videos today to check that everything would likely work and I see 0% in the "Measuring the Pre and Post-calibration Grayscale" video. I thought the previous demos showed no 0% and I thought Tom had confirmed that layout, but that video is showing 0%.

- Is 0% included in the grayscale measurements?

- If so, is 0% always included in ChromaPure version 2 grayscale measurements, or are there also places where the measurements start at either 5% or 10%?

- Is 0% not measured in the gamma series? (video shows no 0% for gamma)
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post #724 of 5663 Old 10-12-2010, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Can someone with version 2 address the following:

I was looking at the demo videos today to check that everything would likely work and I see 0% in the "Measuring the Pre and Post-calibration Grayscale" video. I thought the previous demos showed no 0% and I thought Tom had confirmed that layout, but that video is showing 0%.

- Is 0% included in the grayscale measurements?

- If so, is 0% always included in ChromaPure version 2 grayscale measurements, or are there also places where the measurements start at either 5% or 10%?

- Is 0% not measured in the gamma series? (video shows no 0% for gamma)

Just checked ChromaPure 2.03 Prof and and 0% only appears in the raw data module. Pre and post grayscale and White Balance are 10 to 100 in 10% increments.
Only the Gamma module has 5% values and then only for 95, 15 and 5 percent and these have to be specially activated.

Like your MP4-preview BTW and hope to see the final version with menus before long but take your time, we can wait.

Strangely this version does not run on the Panasonic BD65 but runs fine on the LG BD390, go figure.

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post #725 of 5663 Old 10-12-2010, 11:18 AM
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Thanks for the reply, maybe the video is old. Looking at Tom's comments again, it looks like maybe 0% changed on grayscale for version 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

Only the Gamma module has 5% values and then only for 95, 15 and 5 percent and these have to be specially activated.

At this point I'll just have to go off of previous discussions on the 5% items unless told otherwise.
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post #726 of 5663 Old 10-12-2010, 02:15 PM
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Just checked ChromaPure 2.03 Prof and and 0% only appears in the raw data module. Pre and post grayscale and White Balance are 10 to 100 in 10% increments.
Only the Gamma module has 5% values and then only for 95, 15 and 5 percent and these have to be specially activated.


+1


Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Thanks for the reply, maybe the video is old. Looking at Tom's comments again, it looks like maybe 0% changed on grayscale for version 2.



At this point I'll just have to go off of previous discussions on the 5% items unless told otherwise.


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post #727 of 5663 Old 10-12-2010, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Can someone with version 2 address the following:

- Is 0% included in the grayscale measurements?

- If so, is 0% always included in ChromaPure version 2 grayscale measurements, or are there also places where the measurements start at either 5% or 10%?

- Is 0% not measured in the gamma series? (video shows no 0% for gamma)

  • We did make a change for 2.0, removing 0% readings from grayscale. This is because of the new Contrast module. Black should be read from here.
  • 5% grayscale readings are available, but only if you enable it from the Options menu.
  • There is also no 0% reading in the Gamma module. Also, the Gamma module is in 10% increments, except for 5%, 15%, and 95%, which are user-selectable options.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #728 of 5663 Old 10-13-2010, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

  • 5% grayscale readings are available, but only if you enable it from the Options menu.
  • There is also no 0% reading in the Gamma module. Also, the Gamma module is in 10% increments, except for 5%, 15%, and 95%, which are user-selectable options.

Based on this I guess I could rename and change the 5% GAMMA section to the following:

GAMMA OPTIONS
100% White
95% Gray
90% Gray
80% Gray
70% Gray
60% Gray
50% Gray
40% Gray
30% Gray
20% Gray
15% Gray
10% Gray
5% Gray
0% Black (not used)
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post #729 of 5663 Old 10-13-2010, 09:13 AM
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A very elementary question: though I have been doing CP (and HCFR before) for some while now, I am never totally comfortable that I have my light meter (I1Pro or Display2 LT) placed optimally in from of my screen (with a RS20 projector). 'Grayscale for Dummies' shows a picture and comments on having the meter only 2-3 inches from the screen, and others have suggested 2 to 3 ft. The challenge, of course, is to try to get the meter as square to the screen as possible (i.e., not reading from too sharp an angle) but not having the shadow of the meter in the field being read.

I would appreciate any tips from those of you that are really experienced in this game.

Also, I can't find anywhere what the acceptance angle is for the I1Pro (or Display2); i.e., how wide an angle does it read? The reason is that when doing the CMS calibration, the projector menu is on part of the screen, and one of course doesn't want the meter to be taking in any of it.

Thanks for any of your 'wisdoms'!
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post #730 of 5663 Old 10-13-2010, 02:35 PM
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Ran the Advanced CMS from ChromaPure 2.03 Pro using the internal patterns. Got a very nice result but could not find a way to save it.
The detailed calibration report does not contain it and there is no 'save image' button.

Had to use screen print to load into Paint and save from there.

Am I missing something here ?

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post #731 of 5663 Old 10-13-2010, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catmother View Post

Ran the Advanced CMS from ChromaPure 2.03 Pro using the internal patterns. Got a very nice result but could not find a way to save it.
The detailed calibration report does not contain it and there is no 'save image' button.

Had to use screen print to load into Paint and save from there.

Am I missing something here ?

No, you aren't missing anything. In this version, this tool is for diagnostics only. We will be adding functionality in subsequent releases.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
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post #732 of 5663 Old 10-13-2010, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

A very elementary question: though I have been doing CP (and HCFR before) for some while now, I am never totally comfortable that I have my light meter (I1Pro or Display2 LT) placed optimally in from of my screen (with a RS20 projector). 'Grayscale for Dummies' shows a picture and comments on having the meter only 2-3 inches from the screen, and others have suggested 2 to 3 ft. The challenge, of course, is to try to get the meter as square to the screen as possible (i.e., not reading from too sharp an angle) but not having the shadow of the meter in the field being read.

I would appreciate any tips from those of you that are really experienced in this game.

Also, I can't find anywhere what the acceptance angle is for the I1Pro (or Display2); i.e., how wide an angle does it read? The reason is that when doing the CMS calibration, the projector menu is on part of the screen, and one of course doesn't want the meter to be taking in any of it.

Thanks for any of your 'wisdoms'!

I have used my i1Pro (newly recertified in Switzerland) up to nine feet from the screen due to 1) pure laziness given the need to access the meter every 10 minutes for dark readings - I have the meter closer to me seated on the couch (CP 2.0 seems to prompt for dark readings even more frequently, BTW); 2) avoidance of the both a shadow projected onto the screen and high angle acuity, which is more of an issue with a High Power screen; and 3) not much apparent difference in readings obtained from this distance versus closer to the screen. I zoom my RS10 in to maximize brightness for the i1Pro sessions and shift the image to center it without casting much if any shadow from the meter.

Kevin Anderson and I noted that with the i1Pro aimed squarely at the center of a white field there was no deviation in color temp readings when the RS10's color temp R,G,B adjustment bars are present on the bottom of the image. This suggests that the i1Pro reads a narrow angle of light.

I will modify the above procedure if more thorough research indicates that closer reads are more accurate. Does the shadow make that much of a difference if its area is constant with different IREs/gamut reads?
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post #733 of 5663 Old 10-13-2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

A very elementary question: though I have been doing CP (and HCFR before) for some while now, I am never totally comfortable that I have my light meter (I1Pro or Display2 LT) placed optimally in from of my screen (with a RS20 projector). 'Grayscale for Dummies' shows a picture and comments on having the meter only 2-3 inches from the screen, and others have suggested 2 to 3 ft. The challenge, of course, is to try to get the meter as square to the screen as possible (i.e., not reading from too sharp an angle) but not having the shadow of the meter in the field being read.

I would appreciate any tips from those of you that are really experienced in this game.

Also, I can't find anywhere what the acceptance angle is for the I1Pro (or Display2); i.e., how wide an angle does it read? The reason is that when doing the CMS calibration, the projector menu is on part of the screen, and one of course doesn't want the meter to be taking in any of it.

Thanks for any of your 'wisdoms'!

I would think you could experiment a bit by moving the probe around while watching the screen to see how the readings vary. I'd probably opt to put up a windowed white pattern to start and then change to full screen pattern.

Geof
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post #734 of 5663 Old 10-13-2010, 04:26 PM
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Thanks for these suggestions; I will indeed try them out.
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post #735 of 5663 Old 10-16-2010, 11:44 AM
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Tom, Though I'm sure most of the 'pro's' here don't need the 'Demos' that you have on the CP website, I certainly have found them very helpful, esp since it may be a month or two behind times I do a calibration and need to refresh my memory on the precise protocols (esp in the Meter Offset procedures).

HOWEVER, it seems that the Demos don't reflect the newest version of CP, esp the Pro version. Do you have plans to up-date the Demos so that they accurately reflect what one actually sees? Tx, Bill
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post #736 of 5663 Old 10-16-2010, 04:33 PM
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You aren't the first person to mention this. I'll update them shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Tom, Though I'm sure most of the 'pro's' here don't need the 'Demos' that you have on the CP website, I certainly have found them very helpful, esp since it may be a month or two behind times I do a calibration and need to refresh my memory on the precise protocols (esp in the Meter Offset procedures).

HOWEVER, it seems that the Demos don't reflect the newest version of CP, esp the Pro version. Do you have plans to up-date the Demos so that they accurately reflect what one actually sees? Tx, Bill


Tom Huffman
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post #737 of 5663 Old 10-16-2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

You aren't the first person to mention this. I'll update them shortly.

Much appreciate it (and all your other help)!

PS I'm also enjoying having my I1Pro back, that you 'Pro'd' for me. I used it last night, as the 'Ref Meter' with my Display2LT as 'Field Meter'. It may, of course, be the placebo effect, but I think that the color I got from the CMS (on my RS20) is even better (spot on) than before.
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post #738 of 5663 Old 10-18-2010, 09:07 PM
 
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Tom,

What's the time from for the build for the interactive control with the DVDO Duo? Just a rough estimate to get the juices flowing.
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post #739 of 5663 Old 10-19-2010, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cf181user View Post

What's the time from for the build for the interactive control with the DVDO Duo? Just a rough estimate to get the juices flowing.

I want to get it out before the end of the year.

Tom Huffman
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post #740 of 5663 Old 10-20-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

A very elementary question: though I have been doing CP (and HCFR before) for some while now, I am never totally comfortable that I have my light meter (I1Pro or Display2 LT) placed optimally in from of my screen (with a RS20 projector). 'Grayscale for Dummies' shows a picture and comments on having the meter only 2-3 inches from the screen, and others have suggested 2 to 3 ft. The challenge, of course, is to try to get the meter as square to the screen as possible (i.e., not reading from too sharp an angle) but not having the shadow of the meter in the field being read.

I would appreciate any tips from those of you that are really experienced in this game.

Also, I can't find anywhere what the acceptance angle is for the I1Pro (or Display2); i.e., how wide an angle does it read? The reason is that when doing the CMS calibration, the projector menu is on part of the screen, and one of course doesn't want the meter to be taking in any of it.

Thanks for any of your 'wisdoms'!

I have a high gain screen and had a hard time getting consistant ratings. Tom suggested I use a full screen image and setup 3 or 4 feet back from the screen. I got very good results. I could move the meter around and the readings didn't shift much at all. I have the Chroma 5 pro meter. The last time I calibrated I used the window patterns and still got great results.

I have a friend with a neutral gain screen and he measures less than a foot away and gets good readings so I think the greater distance is really only needed with high gain screens.

Ron
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post #741 of 5663 Old 10-21-2010, 02:43 PM
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Hi all,

I created a simple calibration disk for DVD/SD calibration.
Mainly because i wanted the saturation patterns to be on the Chromapure disk.

I converted the AVCHD *.mts files to VOB and created a disk with Nero Vision
(and manualy created chapters )

The original AVCHD files where NOT decoded but transcoded so only the resolution and bitrate are altered.

Some chapters are a little bit buggy (when press next chapter you have to wait 2seconds before the next pattern views)

And the Gamma patterns i tryed to copy them from the chromapure disk
but somehow the vob/video says it's a 0 second duration file ?

So for gamma you have to go to 10% grayscale and start with 100% and go back to 10% with remote control

I hope you like it until there's a "real" chromapure disk for CP-Pro users
who also want to calibrate SD input and have saturation patterns.

Let me know if there a any problems (i hope you can you use a PAL disk with NTSC system)

edit, link removed because there's a new disk

File is approx. 25 mb

Best regards

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post #742 of 5663 Old 10-24-2010, 04:04 PM
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I have updated five demos (CMS, Options, Grayscale, Contrast, Initialize Meter) to better reflect the changes made in 2.0. I'll offer some additional demos with the next release.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #743 of 5663 Old 10-25-2010, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

I have updated five demos (CMS, Options, Grayscale, Contrast, Initialize Meter) to better reflect the changes made in 2.0. I'll offer some additional demos with the next release.

Thanks for updating the demos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbeenl View Post

Hi all,

I created a simple calibration disk for DVD/SD calibration.
Mainly because i wanted the saturation patterns to be on the Chromapure disk.

I converted the AVCHD *.mts files to VOB and created a disk with Nero Vision
(and manualy created chapters )

The original AVCHD files where NOT decoded but transcoded so only the resolution and bitrate are altered.

Some chapters are a little bit buggy (when press next chapter you have to wait 2seconds before the next pattern views)

I hope you like it until there's a "real" chromapure disk for CP-Pro users
who also want to calibrate SD input and have saturation patterns.

Let me know if there a any problems (i hope you can you use a PAL disk with NTSC system)

Best regards

EDIT V3 is on this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=744

approx. 120 mb




The patterns are all windowed because that's what i like to use regardless the type of screen.

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post #744 of 5663 Old 10-29-2010, 08:18 PM
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Hi,

there's a new version , let's call that V3

My goal is to create a disk with all the patterns that you need with Chromapure and with patterns in the same order as Chromapure's workflow.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/b40e...3_advanced_rar

approx. 118 mb

enjoy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbeenl View Post

Thanks for updating the demos

I made a new SD PAL DVD and added the gamma patterns

http://www.filefactory.com/file/b3hc...mapure_PAL_rar

approx. 26 mb




The patterns are all windowed because that's what i like to use regardless the type of screen.


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post #745 of 5663 Old 10-31-2010, 04:16 AM
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I asked this over on the UK forum, but as it's more related to Chromapure product(s) then perhaps I might get a better response over here:

Would it be acceptable to use my rented i1Pro facing the screen to create an offset for my i1LT (with diffuser) facing the projector? I would then do all my calibration work using the i1LT to avoid continued dark readings as it may take some time.

The readings from the i1Pro off screen should be very accurate using 75% test patterns (RGBYCMW) for creating the reference. The difference for the readings from the i1LT facing the projector (for higher brightness readings to allow better adjustment of the lower IRE readings) should take into account the difference caused by the sensor itself, the diffuser and the screen/room influence.

Am I overlooking something here, or would I have to use my i1LT facing the screen the same as the reference i1Pro?

I intend to take a final set of readings direct from the screen with the i1Pro after all the adjustments to double check, but I'm interested to hear opinions on this plan. I only have the i1Pro for a week, plus I'm really only likely to be able to work on the projector over this weekend due to work next week

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post #746 of 5663 Old 10-31-2010, 11:34 AM
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Sounds like a good approach to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I asked this over on the UK forum, but as it's more related to Chromapure product(s) then perhaps I might get a better response over here:

Would it be acceptable to use my rented i1Pro facing the screen to create an offset for my i1LT (with diffuser) facing the projector? I would then do all my calibration work using the i1LT to avoid continued dark readings as it may take some time.

The readings from the i1Pro off screen should be very accurate using 75% test patterns (RGBYCMW) for creating the reference. The difference for the readings from the i1LT facing the projector (for higher brightness readings to allow better adjustment of the lower IRE readings) should take into account the difference caused by the sensor itself, the diffuser and the screen/room influence.

Am I overlooking something here, or would I have to use my i1LT facing the screen the same as the reference i1Pro?

I intend to take a final set of readings direct from the screen with the i1Pro after all the adjustments to double check, but I'm interested to hear opinions on this plan. I only have the i1Pro for a week, plus I'm really only likely to be able to work on the projector over this weekend due to work next week


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post #747 of 5663 Old 11-01-2010, 10:47 AM
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Thanks Tom. I did the adjustments using my i1LT facing the projector with the offsets created from the i1Pro which was facing the screen. However, when I ran the final check afterwards (everything was just about spot on thanks to the new RGB display within the gamma adjustment section ) the offscreen i1Pro measurments were further off than I was happy with, particularly the colour gamut.

I was able to make small adjustments to my VideoEQ Pro, but this is located by my projector at the rear of the room. As I'm using the same laptop to adjust the VEQ and to run Chromapure, when the sensor is at the screen I have to keep unpluging the i1Pro and move the laptop. This means I can't do the CMS adjustments in real time while watching the HSL bar graphs. Anyway after a bit of back and forth my last readings off screen with the i1Pro were pretty good with only green being at delta E of 2 the rest were less and most of the greyscale being around 1 apart from the extremes. I also understand that the i1Pro has a poorer low level reading, so it may be that my 10-20 IRE results are actually closer than the readings shown (as the i1LT adjustments were at least consistant right down to 5IRE due to the facing projector arrangement).

As I've got a couple more nights with the rental i1Pro I might have another go at creating an offset for use with my i1LT as I'd like to do an SMPTE colour gamut adjustment too.

I think that the Chromapure gamma section really helps as I did most of my work within that part. Previously I'd get the gamma spot on and find that the RGB balance was out. Last night I just worked down from 100IRE and made sure the 2.3 target was achieved without upsetting the RGB balance, point by point.

The resultant image was so good I ended up staying up a further 2 hours or more just watching clips of favourite films, even though I should have gone to bed ready for work today. I've attached the 'final' results for anyone interested in how close you can get a HD350, plus VideoEQ Pro using Chromapure and an i1Pro.

I've also attached the 'direct view' readings from the i1LT that used the offset. As you can see I got these really flat even at 10 IRE. I don't have the offscreen i1Pro readings of these same settings to compare as I must have overwritten that file, but I think red was lower when I measured the same greyscale afterwards with the i1Pro.
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Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #748 of 5663 Old 11-01-2010, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I did the adjustments using my i1LT facing the projector with the offsets created from the i1Pro which was facing the screen. However, when I ran the final check afterwards. . . the offscreen i1Pro measurments were further off than I was happy with, particularly the colour gamut.

Try the same procedure but point the Display 2 at the screen without the diffuser.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #749 of 5663 Old 11-02-2010, 01:36 AM
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Try the same procedure but point the Display 2 at the screen without the diffuser.

I will if I have time, but I'm shipping the i1Pro back soon. The main point was to be able to measure from the projector making it possible to adjust the VideoEQ at the same time and get better low level readings.

I wonder if I didn't do a good dark reading with the i1Pro when setting up this offset. I found that when I was adjusting the green (which meant I had to do another dark reading to retake the measurements) that the first reading of red would sometimes be 'off' giving a delta E of 2.5 or so. As I hadn't adjusted the red CMS setting I found this odd. I would repeat the dark measurement and recheck and the next time the red (and other colours apart from green) would be near enough back to their previous readings (delta E of 0.4 for red for example).

When I take the dark measurement I'm using the 'hide' function on my HD350 which also closes the lens cover. Although the lamp remains on there is very little light leakage and the projector is some 19' from the screen. I figured this would be acceptably dark, but I'm now wondering if I should cover the i1Pro during this reading? Otherwise, just rechecking the red gamut would confirm if things are on track I suppose.

I had so many checks I wanted to do while I rented the i1Pro, but time is beating me...if only I had a dedicated room I could do this work any time of day.

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post #750 of 5663 Old 11-02-2010, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

When I take the dark measurement I'm using the 'hide' function on my HD350 which also closes the lens cover. Although the lamp remains on there is very little light leakage and the projector is some 19' from the screen. I figured this would be acceptably dark, but I'm now wondering if I should cover the i1Pro during this reading? Otherwise, just rechecking the red gamut would confirm if things are on track I suppose.

For a dark reading, I thought one should cover the lens of the I1Pro itself, either using its black cap, or I've seen calibrators that simply hold it with the lens snuggly against their body (assuming your shirt is clean!).
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