The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 5663 Old 04-25-2011, 10:31 AM
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I will give them both a try. Just remember I am a complete newb when it comes to advanced calibrations! Should brightness and contrast be set using any standard pattern, or is this something I can achieve in chromapure and with my Display 2/LT Pro?
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Just the man I'm looking for. LOL Try them both and see if the results match (please let us know the results). If so, using the CP patterns will decrease your calibration time immensely.

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post #1082 of 5663 Old 04-25-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post
I will give them both a try. Just remember I am a complete newb when it comes to advanced calibrations! Should brightness and contrast be set using any standard pattern, or is this something I can achieve in chromapure and with my Display 2/LT Pro?
We now have test patterns in CP for setting white and black level by eye. However, I can't know whether your PC outputs these patterns at PC or video levels. On mine it uses PC levels, so that's what the pattern expects. The best bet is to use the test pattern on the AVSHD disc.

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post #1083 of 5663 Old 04-25-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
We now have test patterns in CP for setting white and black level by eye. However, I can't know whether your PC outputs these patterns at PC or video levels. On mine it uses PC levels, so that's what the pattern expects. The best bet is to use the test pattern on the AVSHD disc.
My PC Setup has only PC Levels Output. Is It Possible to Add an Option of Video Levels Output Of The patterns?

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
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post #1084 of 5663 Old 04-25-2011, 06:46 PM
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Well, I didn't realize but my laptop has display port output, so I will have to get an adapter if I want to try using the internally generated patterns. Should this have any effect on the effectiveness?

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Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post

I will give them both a try. Just remember I am a complete newb when it comes to advanced calibrations! Should brightness and contrast be set using any standard pattern, or is this something I can achieve in chromapure and with my Display 2/LT Pro?

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post #1085 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

My tests do show a difference between the Duo test patterns and the reference with respect to grayscale and color luminance, though the differences I measured were not "large."

There are no meaningful discrepancies in gamma.

Considering the dE values, the combined chromaticity/luminance differences are below the threshold of visibility.

The only real concern I am left with is the small amount of excess blue in the Duo's grayscale, though it is below the threshold of visibility, except at 10% and of borderline concern at 90-100%.

Of course you had the latest sw, but maybe DVDO messed up and forgot to update also the test pattern generator:
"Slightly inaccurate coefficients were used in color space conversions and non-video levels were clipped."

It would be interesting to know if you tried comparing with different output color space settings. What colorspace did you use for testing?
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post #1086 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFinn View Post

What colorspace did you use for testing?

YCbCr 444.

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post #1087 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

YCbCr 444.

This is what I have my pj (RS20) set to (as well as Comcast cable box), I use the test patterns on my Oppo 83 from the CP disk or the AVS disk.

But in ChromaPure's color space menu there is no YCbCr 444. I have used HSL, and things seem OK, but is this really the correct choice?
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post #1088 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 01:14 PM
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Tom, I appreciate the new demos that are appropriate for the new software.

But a naive question: when using the White Point tool, is it still recommended that one adjust 80% (30%) white stimulus level with the gain (offset) controls of the display? And then if one checks R,G,B balance at other levels of stimulus, say at 50%, is it simply trial and error as to whether the gain or offset control is more useful for making any adjustment?
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post #1089 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

This is what I have my pj (RS20) set to (as well as Comcast cable box), I use the test patterns on my Oppo 83 from the CP disk or the AVS disk.

But in ChromaPure's color space menu there is no YCbCr 444. I have used HSL, and things seem OK, but is this really the correct choice?

We are using the term "color space" in two different contexts that have dfferent meanings. With respect to the ChromaPure color management module, color space refers to the three standard axes of control from which commercial CMSs adjust color. In the context of outputting data from a video source into a display, we are talking about the digital format of the color information, whether it is native RGB or compressed YCbCr.

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post #1090 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Tom, I appreciate the new demos that are appropriate for the new software.

But a naive question: when using the White Point tool, is it still recommended that one adjust 80% (30%) white stimulus level with the gain (offset) controls of the display? And then if one checks R,G,B balance at other levels of stimulus, say at 50%, is it simply trial and error as to whether the gain or offset control is more useful for making any adjustment?

Yes, although you might try 80, 20.

This is one of the real advantages of some of the new tools, such as the DVDO Duo and Lumagen Mini. You can calibrate the gamma and white point at 10 or even 20 points of adjustment. Even display manufacturers have gotten into this. The JVC projectors allow for multi-point correction as do the new Samsung and LG flat panels.

Most people don't appreciate how much more sophisticated, effective, and affordable calibration tools are now compared to what was available just a few years ago.

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post #1091 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 09:13 PM
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Tom, I was able to get the built in windows to display on the TV (very cool feature). Did you say Chromapure built in patterns require RGB input or does it vary by the PC?

I have the Dell Inspiron netbook available from Sprint.
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post #1092 of 5663 Old 04-26-2011, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by slosvt View Post
Did you say Chromapure built in patterns require RGB input or does it vary by the PC?
No, it doesn't require RGB.

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post #1093 of 5663 Old 04-28-2011, 08:57 AM
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What is the general advice when calibrating a (samsung) LED LCD television? To use Fields or Windows for calibration?
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post #1094 of 5663 Old 04-28-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by PuntNL View Post

What is the general advice when calibrating a (samsung) LED LCD television? To use Fields or Windows for calibration?

It depends.
If the TV has LED back lights with local dimming, use fields to avoid interference from the local dimming.

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post #1095 of 5663 Old 04-28-2011, 03:44 PM
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It depends.
If the TV has LED back lights with local dimming, use fields to avoid interference from the local dimming.

Well its about the new Samsung D7000. It's edge-lit, but has some micro dimming going on or whatever you call it. Best and safest guess would be to just go with the Fields? Or could I also go wrong witg that?

As I have a budget calibrated meter what is the advice at the Lower IRE (<20) as it is not the most accurate in that area?
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post #1096 of 5663 Old 04-28-2011, 04:29 PM
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Ok, I finally got my Display Port to HDMI converter for my Dell laptop. In my NVIDIA settings I can select my 'digital color format' and select between YCbCr444 or RBG for the Display Port/HDMI output. I'm assuming I will use the YCbCr444 setting?

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Well, I didn't realize but my laptop has display port output, so I will have to get an adapter if I want to try using the internally generated patterns. Should this have any effect on the effectiveness?

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post #1097 of 5663 Old 04-29-2011, 04:28 PM
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If anyone is familiar with the Samsung 10 pt White point settings, when you go into the 10 pt settings there are Intervals 1 through 10 available. Each interval has it's on Red, Green, Blue adjustment. Do the 'intervals' refer to the 10, 20, 30, etc IRE patterns? Also, if using the AVSHD disk, should I select Field, Windows, or another setting for the chromapure patterns?

Thanks in advance!
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post #1098 of 5663 Old 04-29-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post

If anyone is familiar with the Samsung 10 pt White point settings, when you go into the 10 pt settings there are Intervals 1 through 10 available. Each interval has it's on Red, Green, Blue adjustment. Do the 'intervals' refer to the 10, 20, 30, etc IRE patterns? Also, if using the AVSHD disk, should I select Field, Windows, or another setting for the chromapure patterns?

Thanks in advance!

There is some variability in where those points actually operate. Under one set of conditions Interval 5 might operate on 50%, but under other conditions Interval 5 might operate on 70%. IF you need to use 10 pt (try to cal first with 2 pt), then use a stepped grayscale pattern & find where each point operates, then start from the top down.

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post #1099 of 5663 Old 04-29-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post

If anyone is familiar with the Samsung 10 pt White point settings, when you go into the 10 pt settings there are Intervals 1 through 10 available. Each interval has it's on Red, Green, Blue adjustment. Do the 'intervals' refer to the 10, 20, 30, etc IRE patterns? Also, if using the AVSHD disk, should I select Field, Windows, or another setting for the chromapure patterns?

Thanks in advance!

First, I would assume 1-10 = 10-100 IRE, though they may be percentages of 100IRE. You could take readings and see how they match the AVSHD disk.

As for your second question, more often than not, I've found using the Window pattern is most recommended. That's what I always use.

EDIT: Dave's response above mine seems appropriate.
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post #1100 of 5663 Old 04-29-2011, 05:03 PM
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I am a newbie, so what would I need to do to see how the intervals matched up to the avshd disk?
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post #1101 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post

I am a newbie, so what would I need to do to see how the intervals matched up to the avshd disk?

You have ChromaPure? and some kind of meter (i1 display, Chroma 5, etc)?
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post #1102 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post

Ok, I finally got my Display Port to HDMI converter for my Dell laptop. In my NVIDIA settings I can select my 'digital color format' and select between YCbCr444 or RBG for the Display Port/HDMI output. I'm assuming I will use the YCbCr444 setting?

YCbCr would be my choice but try both and post the results. We would all be grateful for your findings.

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post #1103 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 09:07 AM
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Ok, so I spent about 2.5 hours last night doing a trial run using the AVSHD disk on my PS3, and I'm obviously doing something wrong Some of my measurements improved, but many seem to be worse. Especially in the Chromacity Performance dE and in Gamma. I am unsure how I'm supposed to bump up the Gamma readings, especially in the high end on my Samsung PN64D8000. There is a Gamma setting, but it is a sliding measurement that goes from -5 to 5 I believe. I tried adjusting that but it didn't seem to help levels on the high end, only making them worse. Now the picture 'looks' good to the eye, but I have a ways to go until I figure out how to make it even better. I have attached a link below to my calibration report if anyone has any ideas.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...thkey=CO79_LwM
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post #1104 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post

Some of my measurements improved, but many seem to be worse. Especially in the Chromacity Performance dE and in Gamma.

You broke green and the associated secondaries. Just put it back. If you only have a single gamma control then you have to pick the least worse.
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post #1105 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 11:01 AM
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I am trying to calibrate a Hitachi 57s500 rear projection CRT TV, with my chroma 5. By the numbers it looks like im getting ok results, not perfect I think I can get it better. Then after I'm done calibrating the TV I have to turn down the tvs color level down from 38 to like 15, cause peoples skin tone is so vibrant red color. Is there something I'm doing wrong, or is this telling me I need to calibrate with 75% color instead of 100% color. I just don't know if its a tv problem, or the operators error. any advice would be great
Thanks
Lance

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post #1106 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintxeric View Post

Ok, so I spent about 2.5 hours last night doing a trial run using the AVSHD disk on my PS3, and I'm obviously doing something wrong Some of my measurements improved, but many seem to be worse. Especially in the Chromacity Performance dE and in Gamma. I am unsure how I'm supposed to bump up the Gamma readings, especially in the high end on my Samsung PN64D8000. There is a Gamma setting, but it is a sliding measurement that goes from -5 to 5 I believe. I tried adjusting that but it didn't seem to help levels on the high end, only making them worse. Now the picture 'looks' good to the eye, but I have a ways to go until I figure out how to make it even better. I have attached a link below to my calibration report if anyone has any ideas.

I thought you were going to use the CP internal patterns? It'll go a lot faster.

You're expecting too much too soon and it seems you need some gamma experience. Do a reset in the picture mode you calibrated and start over. Adjust the black and white levels and leave the rest as is.

Open CP and if you think in terms of FtL like me set options > calibration > luminance to FtL. Now do your pre cal grayscale run and note FtL under the 100% reading. If it's higher than you want adjust the Contrast down a couple clicks and remeasure 100%. Repeat until you get a white level of your choice. Readjust black level.

Now go to the White Balance module in CP and the White Balance 2 pt control on the TV. Put up an 80% pattern and select 80% & Continuous in CP. Adjust with the Gain controls. Select 30% on both and adjust with the Offset controls. Repeat once or twice to get balance in the ballpark.

Select the Gamma module, do a run, and after that select 80 and continuous with an 80% pattern on the screen. It's time to play around for awhile. Make changes in Contrast, Gamma Presets, and the Gain controls while observing what happens to the 80 point. Do the same with the 30 point and change the Offsets as well as the others. The more you observe, the more you'll learn.

This was your first attempt at calibration. It takes time, lots of time. White point and gamma is just the start but I think it pays dividends to learn about them first.

Most of all, have fun.

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post #1107 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance1701 View Post

I am trying to calibrate a Hitachi 57s500 rear projection CRT TV, with my chroma 5. By the numbers it looks like im getting ok results, not perfect I think I can get it better. Then after I'm done calibrating the TV I have to turn down the tvs color level down from 38 to like 15, cause peoples skin tone is so vibrant red color. Is there something I'm doing wrong, or is this telling me I need to calibrate with 75% color instead of 100% color. I just don't know if its a tv problem, or the operators error. any advice would be great
Thanks
Lance

Are you in the Movie mode? Use 75% patterns.

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post #1108 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 01:10 PM
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my tv dosen't have movie mode only high,standard, medium, and black and white I have tried them all except black and white. I think standard is the best right now, except for cyan color. I could not get it as close as the rest of the colors, and if i did get it close then yellow was out just like the cyan was before, so it was one way or the other.

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post #1109 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance1701 View Post

my tv dosen't have movie mode only high,standard, medium, and black and white I have tried them all except black and white. I think standard is the best right now, except for cyan color. I could not get it as close as the rest of the colors, and if i did get it close then yellow was out just like the cyan was before, so it was one way or the other.

I'm not familiar with your TV. For color does it have any controls beyond Color and Tint? If Tint works like most, hue for all three secondaries is adjusted simultaneously. Bringing one color closer to correct may take the other two farther away.

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post #1110 of 5663 Old 04-30-2011, 02:15 PM
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it does have some tint adjustments in service menu, i tried adjusting them but one would come in then like you said the other would go out. there are 6 tint adjustments in the menu Tint-3 Tint-D Tint-E Tint-M Tint-S Tint-B. I know what one worked on yellow and one on cyan but the others didn't seam to effect other colors at all. I did find that my green was really strong it, so I lower the green cut 4 clicks from the bottom. Before it always looked like yellow was a little to green and everything was looking better now my computer frozen, there could be a problem with something.

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