The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 54 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

Sounds fine to me, but what exactly do you mean by your "two gammas"?

Sorry, the two settings on my Duo allow me two different gamma settings for the same TV settings.

My 'day' and 'night' settings are 2.2 and 2.35 respectively.

Thanks for the help
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:19 PM
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It seems to me from this thread and the iScan Duo thread, that Display calibration is now becoming the supreme hobby for Video enthusiasts, replacing relations with the YL and XYL.

Sorry, YL (Young Lady) and XYL (ex young lady) are abbreviations for us Ham radio operators who remember using CW (Continous Wave... Morse code) where XYL means you married the YL.

If that is your situation be sure to have two displays so one is available for the YL or XYL to watch TV.

Bye now, have to watch a NASCAR and Formula 1 race recorded on the Tivo Premiere.

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Old 09-26-2011, 09:53 PM
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I must say I was a little disappointed tonight when after much delay on my part and circumstance I finally had a serial cable and a USB/Serial Adapter to interface with the DUO. Access to the the DUO Control Panel worked fine and was where I expected to have a hitch if there was one. .

I next turned my attention to the current version of Chrompure only to find through the help menus that my Pro License was not going to let me use that feature without an update. That was not a place to expect a hitch!

I think Tom should have advised Pro License holders proactively they would need their license files updated if they hoped to use that feature in the future. I understand Tom would never know who had a Radience or a DUO but he does know who has Pro Licenses.

Getting Auto Calibrationworking been a drawn out thing for me as the wife had my Win 7 notebook on a business trip for a few weeks and I really only in the last week or so got all the pieces in place..

Pro license holders should get a little more proactive touch. Now I may have bought my license with early adopter pricing but that does not invalidate the concern. I don't know what Tom was trying to achieve by needing a special flag in the Pro License file if by definition a Pro License means auto calibration is a feature.

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Old 09-26-2011, 10:10 PM
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Gary, you are very much mistaken. Auto-calibrate is free for ChromaPure Professional users. I think that you must be confusing a license for ChromaPure Professional with a PRO meter.

ChromaPure Professional users require nothing to get auto-calibrate other than an update to your license and a version of the software that supports this feature. Both are free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I next turned my attention to the current version of Chrompure only to find through the help menus that my Pro License was not going to let me use that feature without an update. That was not a place to expect a hitch!


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Old 09-26-2011, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Gary, you are very much mistaken. Auto-calibrate is free for ChromaPure Professional users. I think that you must be confusing a license for ChromaPure Professional with a PRO meter.

ChromaPure Professional users require nothing to get auto-calibrate other than an update to your license and a version of the software that supports this feature. Both are free.

I am not confusing anything. I am a Pro Software Licensee. If you check your records you will see that is the case. I fully understand the difference between an enhanced ( Pro) Meter and the Professional Version of ChromPure. I paid for both the update to 2.0 and also the discounted offer for the Pro version that was available at the time.

My point remains the same as in my post. Pro Software Licensees should have been proactively notfied their license file needed some kind of refresh to enable the feature. Now if for some reason my license file is just broken in some way and it should enable the feature and it just doesn't for some reason then I owe you an apology for my post and you kind of owe me an apology as well for the broken license file.

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Old 09-27-2011, 12:01 AM
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I misread your post. I thought that you were complaining about having to pay for something that you thought should be free. I see that this was not the case.

Just so that others don't misunderstand, the differences between a ChromaPure Professional license and a ChromaPure Standard license are clearly and exhaustively defined. Being "proactively notified" of software updates is not among the differences.

For every person who wants unsolicited e-mails informing them of product updates, there will be others who view such activity as spam. This is hardly an industry standard in any case. Some vendors do this, but most don't. When available, updates are announced on our News page and on this thread. I do not send unsolicited e-mails as a matter of policy and principle.

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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I am a Pro Software Licensee. If you check your records you will see that is the case. I fully understand the difference between an enhanced ( Pro) Meter and the Professional Version of ChromPure. I paid for both the update to 2.0 and also the discounted offer for the Pro version that was available at the time.

My point remains the same as in my post. Pro Software Licensees should have been proactively notfied their license file needed some kind of refresh to enable the feature.


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Old 09-27-2011, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I am not confusing anything. I am a Pro Software Licensee. If you check your records you will see that is the case. I fully understand the difference between an enhanced ( Pro) Meter and the Professional Version of ChromPure. I paid for both the update to 2.0 and also the discounted offer for the Pro version that was available at the time.

My point remains the same as in my post. Pro Software Licensees should have been proactively notfied their license file needed some kind of refresh to enable the feature. Now if for some reason my license file is just broken in some way and it should enable the feature and it just doesn't for some reason then I owe you an apology for my post and you kind of owe me an apology as well for the broken license file.

I only have ChromaPure Standard, but I knew Auto-Calibrate required a license update. I always read the Release Notes of every version of ChromaPure that gets released. Tom's ChromaPure site has all this info in the news section.

Not to mention that Tom is very quick to respond to e-mails, and is constantly available on this forum in this thread. He always makes new info about new releases available here. It's not hard to find.

You paid for the rights to use any meters ChromaPure supports, and any number of them at one time. As a CP Standard user, I can only be licensed for one meter. That is what a Professional license buys you...that and the right to use CP for commercial, professional purposes.

As far as I'm concerned, Tom doesn't owe you anything.

EDIT: You also get Auto-Calibrate for FREE, so why complain?
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:18 AM
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I think gtgray is upset because it seems like he did a lot of work to line-up for a calibration, only to find out his license needs an update (even though it is free), and he feel like he is not notified... I can understand that frustration. However, to be fair, I believe no one that have a PRO license had been proactively approached by Tom on this either, so it is not like Tom is playing favorite or something. Also, the PRO license granted you better hardware and software capabilities, but does not guarantee better "services"...which you somehow assume. My observation so far with Tom is that from a service standpoint, he treat both standard and professional version user the same.

Now, why does PRO version need an update to license file for the auto-calibration? I would not know, but I suspect that when Tom first had the PRO program, he probably had not thought about this value-added feature for the PRO folks. So, when he added this auto-calibration, instead of retroactively go and add back each PRO license user, he just request the PRO owner to ask him for an additional license file... that's just my guess though. And he probably did not even think that there will be an user that will be in need of a license file urgently and cannot wait for a day... Well..
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

I think gtgray is upset because it seems like he did a lot of work to line-up for a calibration, only to find out his license needs an update (even though it is free), and he feel like he is not notified... I can understand that frustration. However, to be fair, I believe no one that have a PRO license had been proactively approached by Tom on this either, so it is not like Tom is playing favorite or something. Also, the PRO license granted you better hardware and software capabilities, but does not guarantee better "services"...which you somehow assume. My observation so far with Tom is that from a service standpoint, he treat both standard and professional version user the same.

Now, why does PRO version need an update to license file for the auto-calibration? I would not know, but I suspect that when Tom first had the PRO program, he probably had not thought about this value-added feature for the PRO folks. So, when he added this auto-calibration, instead of retroactively go and add back each PRO license user, he just request the PRO owner to ask him for an additional license file... that's just my guess though. And he probably did not even think that there will be an user that will be in need of a license file urgently and cannot wait for a day... Well..

It works the same with the Standard edition....CP 2.2 and beyond all include the Auto-Calibrate component, but you need an update to the license file for any meters you are licensed for in order for the Auto-Calibrate option to work.

Tom made this abundantly clear when Auto-Calibrate was first released. He made it clear here, and on the CP website, and even on the Curt Palme site. He also made it clear that Pro users would get the license update for free. All they had to do was contact him. I don't even own the Pro version, but even I knew that. It's not like the info is hard to find. To want an apology seems a tad ridiculous.

EDIT: I'm sure people who buy the Pro version now get an updated license included, but seeing as gtgrey was an "early adopter", his license needed updating. We all have the same version of Chromapure...it's the license that unlocks features.
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:49 AM
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I will address this more later today. I have been taken care of by Tom.. my frsutration also includes the messiness of license management when moving from one PC to another and not knowing what is what if you aren't calibrating and using the program on a regular basis. You are hunting back through emails and looking at license files and externally they all look pretty much the same.

I give Tom all my business, such as it is. There is no way to externally recognize which license file is which and what it entitles without loading it in the program and then other than meters and Pro designation e hidden in a about message, you don't know what you have got. Perhaps there needs to be an info file associated with a license file.

I do feel that getting all the way into the whole thing after many long delays not Tom's fault and having to find the information about a license update in the help file to be a bit obscure. I have to do my calibrating very late at night and it upsets the domestic tranquility in my house. I am sorry I got upset. But I think there is a broken process here in the business model.

Also I don't know why anyone thinks that a Pro Licensee should not get slightly more attention. I understand there is no service level commitment.But if you can't tell the 200 hundred guys with a pro license to request updates if they intend on using a VP, your CRM is on the weak side. Should have to find it in a help file.

The main reason I bought the Pro license in the first place was auto calibration and it has been a long wait for me. So long in fact that I had to think long and hard about whether it was worth getting my Chroma5 Pro recalibrated or buying a new i3 Pro from Tom. I chose the latter.

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Old 09-27-2011, 11:57 AM
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After a bit of miscommunication likely due to lack of clarity in my communications and my slightly agitated state Tom got me fixed up and it was quite late at night. He did not need to be answering emails when he did and that shows a level of commitment to his customers that is simply outstanding.

I just have to give kudos to Tom for responding to emails at 1 AM, that is way above and beyond the call of duty. While I still dsiagree with the way license file strategy rolls out, clearly I let my frustration to get the better of me and Tom did not deserve it.

I was able to get auto-calibration going and it is a very useful tool, especially with as goofy a set to work with as my Mits 82837. I don't know why but my set is a hard case and very non-linear. The auto-calibrate via DUO lets you experiment in ways that you probably don't have the patience or time to do otherwise.

I have always had the problem with that set of choosing between fairly accurate color and reasonable 100 percent luminance. With auto-calibrate, the DUO and some curious if not downright buggy behavior I leveraged I was able to get 35 ft lamberts out of the set for the first time.

Now the calibration is stil a bit rough with undersatured blue and a gamma dip at 90 percernt stimulus.. but it looks pretty good and it a reasonably bright set when calibrated for the first time in the two years I have owned it.

The DUO control panel will be also be a huge benefit as I chase brightness and accuracy which until now had largely been mutually exclusive sets. I look forward to some of those DUO Control Panel features being implemented in a future ChromaPure version someday. ChromaPure takes a fairly long time to auto-calibrate this Mits set with a Chroma5 Pro. I am looking forward to the hopefully much faster I3 Pro.

Again, thanks to Tom for an excellent feature in auto-calibrate which I am sure will only improve in the future.

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Old 09-27-2011, 12:23 PM
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In the future, please be sure to let us all know about all of your other product update notifications you expect to receive.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:43 PM
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In the future, please be sure to let us all know about all of your other product update notifications you expect to receive.

:

BTW I am not even a customer of SpectraCal and they send tons usfull email including detailed information on product updates.

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Old 09-27-2011, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

:

BTW I am not even a customer of SpectraCal and they send tons usfull email including detailed information on product updates.

HMMM....updates....I maybe wrong but all most all companies don't send out notices of updates available. Most users find out by forums such as this or going to the homepage of the manufacture of the product that you want updated. In the case of this calibration sw, most of us are aware of up coming updates, be it Calman or Chromapure. Both companies are get with getting updates out to its customers. Correct me if I am wrong.. but CP is soon to release 2.5xx and CM is soon to release 4.4xx. Actually in terms a being informed the smaller companies are much more customer friendly (relatively speaking) than the large electronics manufactures.

I am sure that almost everyone that reads the calibration threads knows that Tom is pretty much spot on when it comes to his product and taking care of his customers! Best support I've had!
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:12 PM
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HMMM....updates....I maybe wrong but all most all companies don't send out notices of updates available. Most users find out by forums such as this or going to the homepage of the manufacture of the product that you want updated. In the case of this calibration sw, most of us are aware of up coming updates, be it Calman or Chromapure. Both companies are get with getting updates out to its customers. Correct me if I am wrong.. but CP is soon to release 2.5xx and CM is soon to release 4.4xx. Actually in terms a being informed the smaller companies are much more customer friendly (relatively speaking) than the large electronics manufactures.

I am sure that almost everyone that reads the calibration threads knows that Tom is pretty much spot on when it comes to his product and taking care of his customers! Best support I've had!

You can download the update, you can't download the license file update. You should not get blindsided that your license file is no longer applicable.

You only figure that out after you try all the obvious and see it buried in the help file. The focus on using auto-calibrate on a DUO or Radiance has been on getting the USB to serial port to work. If the license file is not appropriate why not have the button that launches the feature be active and come up and tell you your license file need a refresh to use this feature.

There are so many better ways to bring awareness of this to the fore than to have to argue about here. I won't be the only user to get heartburn over this.

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Old 09-27-2011, 04:30 PM
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I am sure that almost everyone that reads the calibration threads knows that Tom is pretty much spot on when it comes to his product and taking care of his customers! Best support I've had!

You seem to think I have a personal issue with Tom that is far from the case. I have supported him completely with my purchases because not only do I find his product better, but the competition often acts like the old AT&T.

I have said on this thread repeatedly once we were on the same page Tom took care of me admirably and immediately. I coulod not ask for more. .

My point is about strategy and how this particular issue could have been avoided in the begining and how to avoid it going forward.

It is exactly the small size of companies like Chromapure that make it possible for them to get huge bang for the buck from direct customer feedback. I know everyone wants to huddle around him and defend him. There is nothing to defend him from.

Wouldn't it seem likely that Pro owner/users are your best resource for future sales. I know I would not have considered it spam if I had an email from Tom as part of the installed base of Pro Users advising that if you want to use the DUO with auto-calibration please contact us for an updated license file. Stuff like that is the meat and potatoes that makes customer marketing communications more than spam.

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Old 09-27-2011, 05:23 PM
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I'm a bystander who can surely sympathize but I think the announcement issue is a bit misplaced. I knew about this and I get no special emails from Tom but I do read his software release notes. Here are the notes for the first version that incorporated autocal (emphasis mine):

Quote:


ChromaPure 2.2 Release Notes
This release includes the following new features:
  • Auto-Calibrate. This is an optional add-on that works with a DVDO Duo or Lumagen Radiance external processor. After selecting some basic options, it provides a comprehensive calibration with no user input. Auto-Calibrate is available to ChromaPure Standard users for $149. It is free for ChromaPure Professional users. ChromaPure Professional users should contact user support for a license upgrade to enable this option.
  • QuickReports. This new feature allows users to quickly and easily generate basic reports within the application that summarize data in the Pre/Post-Grayscale and Pre/Post Color Gamut modules. These single-page reports can be exported as PDF, Word, or as an image file.
  • 5% measurement increments have been added to the White Balance and Raw Data modules.
  • We are offering a new version of ChromaPure, ChromaPure Plus. The MSRP for this version is $300. It adds support for the AccuPel video test pattern generators.


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Old 09-27-2011, 08:20 PM
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There are so many better ways to bring awareness of this to the fore than to have to argue about here. I won't be the only user to get heartburn over this.

You're the only person I've ever seen complain about this. No one else seems to have had a problem. It's not like this information is buried in some obscure place somewhere. I check this thread every day as part of my daily routine and get a wealth of info, and Tom always provides full descriptions and links when an update is available.

I, for one, don't need e-mails from ChromaPure. I get all the info I need right here.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

You're the only person I've ever seen complain about this. No one else seems to have had a problem. It's not like this information is buried in some obscure place somewhere. I check this thread every day as part of my daily routine and get a wealth of info, and Tom always provides full descriptions and links when an update is available.

I, for one, don't need e-mails from ChromaPure. I get all the info I need right here.

Likewise

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Old 09-28-2011, 05:46 AM
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So far, the main thing *I* (still) get heartburn over is the "Accessories" page of the ChromaPure Store *still* being labeled "Assessories*...
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:56 AM
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It seems pointless to continue this conversation as now we are beating a dead horse. I pointed out several posts ago that Tom quickly got me out a license refresh so the whole thing is old news. I have used auot-calibrate and I find it quite useful. It wil be more useful with the faster meter.

I was quite pleased with the results of the auto-calibration. It did end up with blues quite undersaturated. I don't know how much I can move it toward target without giving up the high brightness level. I am not sure exactly why but the auto-calibration produces quite a bunch more brightness on my hardware than the traditional method. If I set contrast to max on my set it would make much less luminance than what came out the other side of auto-calibrate.

Normally I would use a tool like Spears and Munsil to set the maximum contrast to the highest level without clipping and without color shift prior to calibration. I also use it to set black. I keep it running on the BD player as I use the DUO internal patterns and turn the internal patterns off and on to verify the black and white points have not changed through calibration. The set is challenged in green and the Spear and Munsil clipping pattern will almost always show some level of green clipping unless the contrast is unacceptably low.


On this big Mits max white (100) normally would be only about 24-25 ft lamberts. This would be the case with or without the DUO and with the DUO inline the picture control would be set at default which is Contrast flat at +0.

Anyway, much too my surprise the after auto-calibration max white was not 24 ft lamberts but much, much higher. I don't recall the number but it was much higher than I had any right to expect. I got out Spear and Munsil again and found a serious color shift above white toward blue and white was clipping badly above white as well. I thought well I know that sometimes you can turn down the Contrast in the DUO's Picture Control and reduce color shift and clipping in the above white area. It took 9 clicks down on the DUO's default contrast control and the color shift went away and the white clipping was gone. I tried the same thig with the TV's contrast control and it didn't really work.. the whole screen just got darker without changing the color shift or the white clipping.

So with the DUO down 9 clicks on contrast and the TV at max contrast I re-ran aut-calibrate. It chugged away for quite a long time. dEs on grayscale went up a little bit and color dEs stayed about the same. Max white was right at 35 ft lamberts and the only real anomalie was a gamma dip at 90.

I have never seen 35 ft lambers out of my set with any reasonable level of manual calibration on my part. Above whites looked fine with no visible shift and all the boxes were visible. The Green clipping box in Spears and Munsil did not show any differentiation but that was no surprise.

I don't really understand what is going on but I am not complaining that is for sure. I intend to try to adjust the gamma at 90 white and get the blue point closer but frankly I will take the brightness first. I might be willing to give up some of that brightness to get the gamma at 90 right along with getting the blue point closer but that setting might end as my night profile.

I don't know what kind of fluky thing is going on. Is the contrast control on my set goofy or is there something weird in the DUO. I did load the 2.32 firmware on the DUO before I ran auto-calibrate and I set it to factory defaults.

Any thoughts on what is going on here.

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Old 09-28-2011, 10:57 AM
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So far, the main thing *I* (still) get heartburn over is the "Accessories" page of the ChromaPure Store *still* being labeled "Assessories*...

+1... an update to the CP website would be good, but I prefer the updates on the CP product over the website update.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:59 AM
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You can download the update, you can't download the license file update. You should not get blindsided that your license file is no longer applicable....

If the license file is not appropriate why not have the button that launches the feature be active and come up and tell you your license file need a refresh to use this feature. .......

I won't be the only user to get heartburn over this.

Absolutely right. This is just ordinary good user interface 101 design.
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Old 09-28-2011, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray

If the license file is not appropriate why not have the button that launches the feature be active and come up and tell you your license file need a refresh to use this feature. .......

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Originally Posted by rowland.johnson View Post

Absolutely right. This is just ordinary good user interface 101 design.

I think this is a good idea as well.

Geof
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:31 PM
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Tom, when doing autocal with the Radiance Mini of one of the new JVC's--e.g., RS50--does it make any use of the 'orange' color setting in this projector?
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Tom, when doing autocal with the Radiance Mini of one of the new JVC's--e.g., RS50--does it make any use of the 'orange' color setting in this projector?

No. I haven't been able to figure out why this is there. If red and yellow are correct, then orange will be correct.

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Old 09-29-2011, 07:38 PM
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Considering getting the Sharp Elite, an LED LCD.

Which display type would someone use to calibrate it?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Considering getting the Sharp Elite, an LED LCD.

Which display type would someone use to calibrate it?

Generic_LCD

Tom Huffman
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Tom, when doing autocal with the Radiance Mini of one of the new JVC's--e.g., RS50--does it make any use of the 'orange' color setting in this projector?

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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

No. I haven't been able to figure out why this is there. If red and yellow are correct, then orange will be correct.

???
When it is doing autocal with a Radiance (or a Duo) isn't it doing all the settings on the processor and not touching any settings on the projector?
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Dundas View Post

???
When it is doing autocal with a Radiance (or a Duo) isn't it doing all the settings on the processor and not touching any settings on the projector?

Currently, you are supposed to do a manual White Balance adjustment first, or maybe Millerwill has a beta version of the Radiance software that supports orange
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