The Official ChromaPure thread - Page 85 - AVS Forum
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post #2521 of 5552 Old 05-14-2012, 05:47 PM
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Tom,

I have also seen these errors when using the 75% gamut ACM measurements. I e-mailed this info to you a couple of weeks ago. The error pops up but allows you to continue to the next reading. The graph may not update until all of the readings are completed, but the measurements do seem to function properly.
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post #2522 of 5552 Old 05-14-2012, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbosley View Post

I have also seen these errors when using the 75% gamut ACM measurements. I e-mailed this info to you a couple of weeks ago. The error pops up but allows you to continue to the next reading. The graph may not update until all of the readings are completed, but the measurements do seem to function properly.

Right now, download the latest build. Uninstall CP. Reinstall using what you just downloaded. Try the 75% of Rec. 709 Gamut.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
ISF/THX Calibrations
Springfield, MO

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post #2523 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 08:55 AM
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My D3 Pro arrived with the Certificate of Calibration, but only xy corrections are included. I was expecting to see Y correction also.

Don't I need to know all xyY corrections to figure out how to use this OEM probe with other software? And speaking of doing just that, can somebody provide a link or search term about how to use these corrections to create an XYZ correction table?
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post #2524 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

My D3 Pro arrived with the Certificate of Calibration, but only xy corrections are included. I was expecting to see Y correction also.

Don't I need to know all xyY corrections to figure out how to use this OEM probe with other software? And speaking of doing just that, can somebody provide a link or search term about how to use these corrections to create an XYZ correction table?

there are no Y corrections made

and while an XYZ correction table is used, it is not provided in the certificate
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post #2525 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

there are no Y corrections made

and while an XYZ correction table is used, it is not provided in the certificate

So are you saying the corrections info is of no value or use?
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post #2526 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

My D3 Pro arrived with the Certificate of Calibration, but only xy corrections are included. I was expecting to see Y correction also.

This probe--in fact, virtually all well-designed colorimeters--does not require and would not benefit from a Y correction. Its luminance readings are quite accurate to begin with. Color accuracy is where tristimulus meters need help.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #2527 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

there are no Y corrections made

and while an XYZ correction table is used, it is not provided in the certificate

Actually, we use xyz.

http://www.chromapure.com/FourColorCorrection.pdf

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #2528 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

So are you saying the corrections info is of no value or use?

It is for informational purposes only to document that the work has been done and to provide an idea of how large the corrections were.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #2529 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Actually, we use xyz.

http://www.chromapure.com/FourColorCorrection.pdf

I'm curious, what's the difference? My profile matrix looks like this.
LL
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post #2530 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I'm curious, what's the difference? My profile matrix looks like this.

XYZ and xyz are different ways to characterize the 1931 color space. xyz does not include luminance data.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #2531 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

XYZ and xyz are different ways to characterize the 1931 color space. xyz does not include luminance data.

Interesting.

Based on my profile in CalMAN, that software package does include luminance data when profiling. I guess this explains why peak white is 2 fL higher with my profile vs. using the tables only. Gamma is unchanged.
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post #2532 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

This probe--in fact, virtually all well-designed colorimeters--does not require and would not benefit from a Y correction. Its luminance readings are quite accurate to begin with. Color accuracy is where tristimulus meters need help.

So you're saying they ship with perfect filters that physically match the Y curve of the CIE 1931 colormatching function?

Joel Barsotti
SpectraCal
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post #2533 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

So you're saying they ship with perfect filters that physically match the Y curve of the CIE 1931 colormatching function?

Besides trying to engage Tom in technical arguments to validate the technical chops implied in your sig., why exactly are you participating in this thread for a competitor's product?

Do you actually own a copy of Chromapure, perhaps in order to gauge your competition? Or maybe you found the Chromapure calibration workflow to be more intuitive and productive than Calman's?

=>><<=robobob
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post #2534 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robobob View Post

Besides trying to engage Tom in technical arguments to validate the technical chops implied in your sig., why exactly are you participating in this thread for a competitor's product?

Do you actually own a copy of Chromapure, perhaps in order to gauge your competition? Or maybe you found the Chromapure calibration workflow to be more intuitive and productive than Calman's?

I had a customer inquire about how to import their chromapure profile so I thought I'd try to brush up on how things worked on the other side of the fence.

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post #2535 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Right now, download the latest build. Uninstall CP. Reinstall using what you just downloaded. Try the 75% of Rec. 709 Gamut.

I reported this error earlier and I went back and re-downloaded CP (although the date of the file still shows early April - 2nd, if I recall) and even "repaired" NET 4. I still get the error in the 75% gamut. I followed the instructions for download repair in the order you originally gave me. I went ahead and performed a cal using 100% and no issues, 75% still errors but allows you to continue. Is it possible I am using an old link location, or are they updated and overwritten in the same url as the old one?

Ray
"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place." -Jonathan Swift
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post #2536 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 02:01 PM
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I also have this error but I do not worry about safely use a program - it also works well what more could you want?
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post #2537 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

I reported this error earlier and I went back and re-downloaded CP (although the date of the file still shows early April - 2nd, if I recall) and even "repaired" NET 4. I still get the error in the 75% gamut. I followed the instructions for download repair in the order you originally gave me. I went ahead and performed a cal using 100% and no issues, 75% still errors but allows you to continue. Is it possible I am using an old link location, or are they updated and overwritten in the same url as the old one?

The latest build has a file date of 5/7/2012. The link is
http://www.chromapure.com/distribute...chromapure.zip

If you are installing an early April build, you are installing an older version where this problem did exist.

Tom Huffman
ChromaPure Software/AccuPel Video Signal Generators
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post #2538 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 02:11 PM
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Thank you!
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post #2539 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

The latest build has a file date of 5/7/2012. The link is
http://www.chromapure.com/distribute...chromapure.zip

If you are installing an early April build, you are installing an older version where this problem did exist.

No, the build date I have shows 5/7 as you state. I was referring to the date shown during the install of features that still has April 2 listed. I re-confirmed this with the current link you gave (which was the one I was already using). I guess this problem just exists on some systems and not others. I've only tried it on my laptop, so maybe I'll try the desktop as well and see if it repeats.

Ray
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post #2540 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

No, the build date I have shows 5/7 as you state. I was referring to the date shown during the install of features that still has April 2 listed. I re-confirmed this with the current link you gave (which was the one I was already using). I guess this problem just exists on some systems and not others. I've only tried it on my laptop, so maybe I'll try the desktop as well and see if it repeats.

I have tested this every way I know how, and it works fine here. So there's something mysterious going on that I am as of yet unable to diagnose.

http://www.chromapure.com/bugtest/75...75percent.html

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post #2541 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 07:15 PM
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Well, I just tried it on my desktop computer and got the same error message. I don't know what else to try. It's not that big a deal, since 100% works fine and I was just trying 75%. If it would help you in any way Tom, I can send the rest of the error message to you with all the module info, beyond what is on the main error window = "object reference not set to an instance of an object".

Ray
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post #2542 of 5552 Old 05-15-2012, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Well, I just tried it on my desktop computer and got the same error message. I don't know what else to try. It's not that big a deal, since 100% works fine and I was just trying 75%. If it would help you in any way Tom, I can send the rest of the error message to you with all the module info, beyond what is on the main error window = "object reference not set to an instance of an object".

Copy and paste the details of the message and send it to me via e-mail.

Tom Huffman
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post #2543 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Copy and paste the details of the message and send it to me via e-mail.

Sent as requested. I used the support/incident page on Chromapure.

Ray
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post #2544 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 09:30 AM
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Tom! Why in matrix correction not Y correction also?
I have Spyder 4 and Colormunki Design.

With new CP mistake in 75% color management remained.
Quote:


See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at ChromaPure.Controls.Calibration.ColorManagementControl.Color RadioButton_CheckedChanged1(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.RadioButton.OnCheckedChanged(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.RadioButton.set_Checked(Boolean value)
at System.Windows.Forms.RadioButton.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.RadioButton.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(M essage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Mes sage& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.269 (RTMGDR.030319-2600)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
ChromaPure
Assembly Version: 2.2.13.40789
Win32 Version: 2.2.13.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/ChromaPure.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.269 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.276 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.269 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
CpColorScience
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/CpColorScience.DLL
----------------------------------------
CpL
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/CpL.DLL
----------------------------------------
CpHw
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 2.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/CpHw.DLL
----------------------------------------
PresentationCore
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.275 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_32/PresentationCore/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/PresentationCore.dll
----------------------------------------
WindowsBase
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.275 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/WindowsBase/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/WindowsBase.dll
----------------------------------------
CpSettings
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/CpSettings.DLL
----------------------------------------
System.Management
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Management/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Management.dll
----------------------------------------
WindowsFormsIntegration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/WindowsFormsIntegration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/WindowsFormsIntegration.dll
----------------------------------------
PresentationFramework
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.275
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/PresentationFramework/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/PresentationFramework.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xaml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xaml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xaml.dll
----------------------------------------
PresentationFramework.Classic
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/PresentationFramework.Classic/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/PresentationFramework.Classic.dll
----------------------------------------
CpIO
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/CpIO.DLL
----------------------------------------
CpSession
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/CpSession.DLL
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.233 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
rk3a4xux
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.269 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Deployment
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Deployment/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Deployment.dll
----------------------------------------
CpControlLib
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files/Display%20Calibrations%20LLC/ChromaPure/CpControlLib.DLL
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms.DataVisualization
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms.DataVisualization/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/System.Windows.Forms.DataVisualization.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Data
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.237 (RTMGDR.030319-2300)
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_32/System.Data/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Data.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.233 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.1 built by: RTMRel
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
kj4hly0e
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.30319.269 built by: RTMGDR
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:





When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.

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post #2545 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sotti View Post

So you're saying they ship with perfect filters that physically match the Y curve of the CIE 1931 colormatching function?

What I am saying is that I have tested several colorimeters, some very inexpensive, against a reference source and seen negligible differences in reported luminance. For example,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=17

This reports absolute luminance. When you look at relative luminance, which is much more important for calibration, the differences are even smaller--in fact, virtually zero.

If I see any empirical data suggesting that a properly functioning colorimeter requires luminance correction, then we'll provide it. I haven't seen any yet.

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post #2546 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post

Tom! Why in matrix correction not Y correction also?
I have Spyder 4 and Colormunki Design.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2527

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2546


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Originally Posted by anta1974 View Post

With new CP mistake in 75% color management remained.

Since this occurs for some and not for others, this must be caused by some details in configuration. Send me your configuration file
C:\\ProgramData\\Display Calibrations LLC\\ChromaPure\\2\\ChromaPure.config

and I can investigate further.

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post #2547 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Interesting.

Based on my profile in CalMAN, that software package does include luminance data when profiling. I guess this explains why peak white is 2 fL higher with my profile vs. using the tables only. Gamma is unchanged.

This is just what you would expect. Gamma, dE color calculations, and contrast calculations all use relative luminance (grayscale doesn't use luminance at all). None of these would be affected by a Y correction. The only thing affected is absolute luminance, and this is used only for measurement of peak output and absolute black level, at least that's all I can think of that it would be used for.

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post #2548 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

What I am saying is that I have tested several colorimeters, some very inexpensive, against a reference source and seen negligible differences in reported luminance. For example,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=17

This reports absolute luminance. When you look at relative luminance, which is much more important for calibration, the differences are even smaller.

If I see any empirical data suggesting that a properly functioning colorimeter requires luminance correction, then we'll provide it. I haven't seen any yet.

Hi Tom,

I consistently see a 3.3% offset in Y at all luminance levels between my new D3(uncorrected and in refresh mode) and my i1pro 2. Would you recommend scaling Y on the i1pro 2 to the D3 or vice versa?
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post #2549 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I consistently see a 3.3% offset in Y at all luminance levels between my new D3(uncorrected and in refresh mode) and my i1pro 2. Would you recommend scaling Y on the i1pro 2 to the D3 or vice versa?

Excellent question. The D3 is almost certainly the more accurate in reading luminance.

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post #2550 of 5552 Old 05-16-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2527

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2546


Since this occurs for some and not for others, this must be caused by some details in configuration. Send me your configuration file
C:\\ProgramData\\Display Calibrations LLC\\ChromaPure\\2\\ChromaPure.config

and I can investigate further.
My file

 

ChromaPureconfig.zip 1.287109375k . file
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