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post #91 of 252 Old 01-28-2010, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapper View Post

Thought that the Calman software was only good for pc monitors, how about a LCD PJ and a rear DLP????

No CalMAN is for LCD, Plasma, CRT, Projector, etc...

The software that comes with the ColorMunki is design for PC monitors.

So with a ColorMunki / CalMAN bundle you get the best for both and should be able to calibrate just about every display type you have.

Derek

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post #92 of 252 Old 01-28-2010, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Not sure what you mean here ...Do you mean the CalMAN PC Pattern Generator?

Not exactly, I have a DPG. There was some discussion a few months ago about output versus pattern size. So I compared the DPG small and large windows and got 56 versus 47fL. Recently I've been fiddling with the small windows hence my apprehension about the CM. As I said if you use the DPG Large or AVSHD (or equivalent) sized patterns it's not normally an issue assuming you feel no need to have the CM centered on the panel.

In any case I think the ergonomics on large panels can be sorted out just like any projector issues. I was surprised at how different the CM looks and handles so I'm (over)sharing.
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post #93 of 252 Old 01-28-2010, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Not exactly, I have a DPG. There was some discussion a few months ago about output versus pattern size. So I compared the DPG small and large windows and got 56 versus 47fL. Recently I've been fiddling with the small windows hence my apprehension about the CM. As I said if you use the DPG Large or AVSHD (or equivalent) sized patterns it's not normally an issue assuming you feel no need to have the CM centered on the panel.

In any case I think the ergonomics on large panels can be sorted out just like any projector issues. I was surprised at how different the CM looks and handles so I'm (over)sharing.

Use and reference the DGP's small Window Size (directory/folder), that size is close the the standard Quantum Data/SenCore/Accuple 'Small' Size...

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post #94 of 252 Old 01-28-2010, 11:00 PM
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With the USB Cable and Strap over the top of the Display, place the Munki at the center of Display (maybe a little above center), unzip the strap until the Munki sits flat on the Display (move the Zip back and fourth on the top edge until the Munki is balanced) ...

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post #95 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Interesting that you just happen to pick your best Chroma5 in what should have been a objective review. How many ColorMunki's did you have on hand just the one? When was it last calibrated?

What exactly are you implying when you say "in what should have been a objective review"??

Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Tom, what software did you use to get the raw xyY ColorMunki data? Since ChromaPure does not support the ColorMunki Create, Design or Photo.

A subtle jab and self promotion....your question about software stands without denigrating Chromapure's lack of support for the CM.

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Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

That is why a innovative person would create a tripod mount for the ColorMunki just like we do for the Chroma5 and i1Pro. BTW we are working on just such a thing.

I may be blasted for this but this is the kind of self promoting hype that really annoys me. It's also one reason why I bypassed Calman and chose ChromaPure. I never see Tom making blatant self promotions like this nor make insinuating implications on others comments.

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post #96 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Interesting that you just happen to pick your best Chroma5 in what should have been a objective review. How many ColorMunki's did you have on hand just the one? When was it last calibrated?

I didn't "pick [our] best Chroma 5". I selected it at random. But as I mentioned, it performed better than what I generally see for C5s. It's variation on white was only xy0.003. We generally see more like xy0.005.

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post #97 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Use and reference the DGP's small Window Size

I'm tempted to say eh? Derek can speak authoritatively but in my case Large is about the same size as the AVSHD patterns (I think a bit larger) and Small is about 20% of that size. The position on my 50" panel to see the small patterns is the one that slipped. Perhaps your strap is longer or more flexible, the top of your display is grippier than mine or you were getting some support from the USB cable -- it's hard to say.

Presumably the moral of the story is to be prepared (by which I don't mean have a roll of blue painters' tape).
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post #98 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

What exactly are you implying when you say "in what should have been a objective review"??

A subtle jab and self promotion....your question about software stands without denigrating Chromapure's lack of support for the CM.

Exactly that an objective review would have been with several ColorMunki's on several display types against a reference meter. Picking your best Chroma5 against some random ColorMunki is NOT objective but in my option self-serving because ChromaPure does not support the ColorMunki and Tom makes money selling Chroma5’s. My pointing out that ChromaPure does not support nor will support the ColorMunki just shows that and people have a right to know.

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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I may be blasted for this but this is the kind of self promoting hype that really annoys me. It's also one reason why I bypassed Calman and chose ChromaPure

Yes it is self-serving because they way I read Tom’s review is his only real complaint is its lack of what he calls form factor which is really silly because a simple tripod mount fixes it.

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Originally Posted by Geof View Post

. I never see Tom making blatant self promotions like this nor make insinuating implications on others comments.

Well then go back and re-read his review on the ColorMunki, it was an attempt to discredit the ColorMunki for his own gain and this has not gone unnoticed.

BTW, we have had competitors in the past use this type of tactic. Discredit the meters they don’t support for their own gains and look where it has gotten them.

Derek

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post #99 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'm tempted to say eh? Derek can speak authoritatively but in my case Large is about the same size as the AVSHD patterns (I think a bit larger) and Small is about 20% of that size. The position on my 50" panel to see the small patterns is the one that slipped. Perhaps your strap is longer or more flexible, the top of your display is grippier than mine or you were getting some support from the USB cable -- it's hard to say.

Presumably the moral of the story is to be prepared (by which I don't mean have a roll of blue painters' tape).

The DPG 1000/1200 has patterns in 3 sizes. Full, standard window and small. The standard window is about the same size as most other pattern generators and cal disks. The small are 15% window.

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post #100 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Exactly that an objective review would have been with several ColorMunki's on several display types against a reference meter. Picking your best Chroma5 against some random ColorMunki is NOT objective but in my option self-serving because ChromaPure does not support the ColorMunki and Tom makes money selling Chroma5’s. My pointing out that ChromaPure does not support nor will support the ColorMunki just shows that and people have a right to know.

I think you're way overreacting on Tom's post. I didn't see the word "Review" anywhere in his comments - perhaps you can point me to it. What I read was what he wrote: I have some data on the ColorMunki. "Data" and "Review" are wildly different terms.

Perhaps Tom does make money selling Chroma 5's - don't you too????? Last I looked you sell 'em and even proclaim your's are better than anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Yes it is self-serving because they way I read Tom’s review is his only real complaint is its lack of what he calls form factor which is really silly because a simple tripod mount fixes it.

Well at least you're honest about it being self serving but all you had to do state something along the lines of a tripod mount is being developed to address those concerns. That would have been the high brow approach but you slunk to used car salesman tactics with the sleazy "just like we do for the Chroma5 and i1Pro" comment. That has no relevance to the Tom's CM comments but it does to your bottom line. Makes me wish I hadn't bought one of your overpriced tripod supports for the C5.

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Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Well then go back and re-read his review on the ColorMunki, it was an attempt to discredit the ColorMunki for his own gain and this has not gone unnoticed.

He basically stated what he thought and he made no disparaging remarks about Calman. If you don't agree with his comments then counter it with facts, not innuendo and snide comments.

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Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

BTW, we have had competitors in the past use this type of tactic. Discredit the meters they don’t support for their own gains and look where it has gotten them.

I thought he was objective about his comments. He compared it against a C5 (which you sell as well) and made note of the fact that it performed better than average which clearly implies that the CM is not as "bad" as the data would seem to indicate. He is a professional calibrator and entitled to his own opinions, just as you are. If he is at fault in his statements correct it and move on. No need to take the low road as you did with the entire tone of your message. Let your product and comments stand on it's own merits - I've found that one person doesn't need to denigrate other products in an attempt to make theirs look better because in effect, it makes them look smaller.

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post #101 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'm tempted to say eh? Derek can speak authoritatively but in my case Large is about the same size as the AVSHD patterns (I think a bit larger) and Small is about 20% of that size. The position on my 50" panel to see the small patterns is the one that slipped. Perhaps your strap is longer or more flexible, the top of your display is grippier than mine or you were getting some support from the USB cable -- it's hard to say.

Presumably the moral of the story is to be prepared (by which I don't mean have a roll of blue painters' tape).

Use the size closest to AVS HD 709 (which are the same size the Quantum Data/Sencore and Accupel units use for the small size) without going larger (unless you are targeting <40fL). I recall it was the small size since the next size was larger than AVS HD 709.. you will have to keep this in mind with your light output on your Kuro (when >40fL) readings/settings (and comparing others).

I use a different generator and/or AVS HD 709 but I'll check the size of the small windows on the DPG with the ColorMunki, there may be an issue here with the stock ColorMunki and the DPG's small windows as you posted.

How is your ColorMunki's placement when you use AVS HD 709?

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post #102 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

My pointing out that ChromaPure does not support nor will support the ColorMunki just shows that and people have a right to know.

Yes it is self-serving because they way I read Tom's review is his only real complaint is its lack of what he calls form factor which is really silly because a simple tripod mount fixes it.

Well then go back and re-read his review on the ColorMunki, it was an attempt to discredit the ColorMunki for his own gain and this has not gone unnoticed.

BTW, we have had competitors in the past use this type of tactic. Discredit the meters they don't support for their own gains and look where it has gotten them.

Describing this as "overreacting" is a severe understatement.

First, you should probably reconsider making assertions about what other companies will do in the future. Stay tuned.

Second, as you point out, my only real complaint was the ergonomics. As of now, no tripod mount exists, so I could not test it that way. I fail to see what is "silly" about this.

Third, since my only real complaint was about the ergonomics and I specifically mentioned that the performance was quite good--even better than I had expected it to be in some ways--it is really hard to see how what I wrote was an "attempt to discredit the ColorMunki". If I had wanted to discredit it, I would have written something very different than what I did. For the record, I think that it is a good instrument, especially at the price point. I think it will work quite well on a tripod, but I don't think it is very well suited as a contact device for large displays.

Finally, that I wrote anything at all was simply because I had become impatient with a thread with over 70 posts about this instrument's performance in which no one had posted anything about this unit's performance. I thought that people would appreciate some real information in addition to questions, vague statements, and marketing.

Tom Huffman
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post #103 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Describing this as "overreacting" is a severe understatement.

First, you should probably reconsider making assertions about what other companies will do in the future. Stay tuned.

Second, as you point out, my only real complaint was the ergonomics. As of now, no tripod mount exists, so I could not test it that way. I fail to see what is "silly" about this.

Third, since my only real complaint was about the ergonomics and I specifically mentioned that the performance was quite good--even better than I had expected it to be in some ways--it is really hard to see how what I wrote was an "attempt to discredit the ColorMunki". If I had wanted to discredit it, I would have written something very different than what I did. For the record, I think that it is a good instrument, especially at the price point. I think it will work quite well on a tripod, but I don't think it is very well suited as a contact device for large displays.

Finally, that I wrote anything at all was simply because I had become impatient with a thread with over 70 posts about this instrument's performance in which no one had posted anything about this unit's performance. I thought that people would appreciate some real information in addition to questions, vague statements, and marketing.

Thank you for clearing up those points, they are appreciated.

Derek

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post #104 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post




With that being said...I just got my Color Munki Photo today and will try and get some testing done this weekend, and compair it to my i1pro.
If the unit is as good as my i1pro...then this would be hands down the new meter for the Enthusiast to get. Personally I like the fact that everything is built in the meter...no more calibration plate or light defuser to loss.

Later
RayJr

That's great Ray, I know you have access to several displays... With bodosom, you, Tom, D-Nice and myself (others?), we should get a good idea how well it does (different samples and different displays and types).

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post #105 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 10:33 AM
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bodosom, are you getting your ColorMunki to rest flat on the display by itself at least? Can you post a pic of it on your 500M?

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post #106 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

bodosom, are you getting your ColorMunki to rest flat on the display by itself at least?

I'm not having any trouble hanging or using the meter. You just have to be prepared. In my specific case I spread the strap and position the USB cable between the two sections. I have about six inches of strap going over the top and loop another weight through the "top" of the strap. Spreading the strap eliminates torsion and adjusting the position of the zipper brings the meter "face" parallel to the panel. I'm going to get a bag of shot to be a formal counter-weight.
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post #107 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

No CalMAN is for LCD, Plasma, CRT, Projector, etc...

The software that comes with the ColorMunki is design for PC monitors.

So with a ColorMunki / CalMAN bundle you get the best for both and should be able to calibrate just about every display type you have.

Do not mean to hijack this thread but was thinking about the Calman SP2 or the Spyder package, does the software that comes with those Calman am I able to calibrate my PJ a LCD??? my other half will kill me if I was to spend that kind of cash for the Munki, or any calibration software.

Thanks

Ralph
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post #108 of 252 Old 01-29-2010, 10:36 PM
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Well I did some very basic compairing of the 2 meters and I have to say that on LCD they match up very close.
I would say that for the price of the color munki it would be a great meter for the beginner that wants to do Calibration

Will try and use it on my plasma tomorrow.

Here are the i1pro and Color munki PDF files on LCD
Take a look.

RayJr

 

i1pro.pdf 136.763671875k . file

 

munki.pdf 137.3037109375k . file
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post #109 of 252 Old 01-30-2010, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

Well I did some very basic compairing of the 2 meters and I have to say that on LCD they match up very close.

Very close indeed. Thanks for posting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

I would say that for the price of the color munki it would be a great meter for the beginner that wants to do Calibration

Exactly. The differences are more on the intangibles than technical differences (IMHO).

From my "Which Meter is Right for Me?" FAQ:

Quote:


Why buy an EyeOne Pro instead of a ColorMunki?

The EyeOne Pro is a professional class meter that is NIST certified, extremely robust, field-tested for years, known to hold up phenomenally.

The ColorMunki is not NIST certified. If you are charging money to calibrate professionally it is highly recommended that you use a NIST certified meter that is recertified every year so that you have proof of accuracy for your customers.

With the EyeOne Pro, you get CalMAN's extensive low-light handling, to extend the EyeOne Pro's legendary accuracy further down into the dark, farther than the ColorMunki.

The ColorMunki can't be used for reflectance measurements in CalMAN while the EyeOne Pro can. Reflectance measurements means measuring non-illuminated surfaces like paper for calibrating a printer or measuring a paint chip. The ColorMunki does work perfectly well for measuring home theater projection screens as they are illuminated of course. Our ColorMunki kits ship with all of the regular X-rite software that normally comes with the meter so you can use this X-rite software to do reflectance measurements of paint chips, printer paper, etc, with the ColorMunki - just not with CalMAN software. (Reflectance mode uses an internal tungsten lamp for illuminating the surface it is measuring).

You can't use a ColorMunki to create a Spectrum chart in CalMAN.

A tripod mount is currently not available for the ColorMunki (though one is being worked on).

Kal
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post #110 of 252 Old 02-01-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

Well I did some very basic compairing of the 2 meters and I have to say that on LCD they match up very close.
I would say that for the price of the color munki it would be a great meter for the beginner that wants to do Calibration

Will try and use it on my plasma tomorrow.

Here are the i1pro and Color munki PDF files on LCD
Take a look.

RayJr

Looking forward to your plasma results.
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post #111 of 252 Old 02-05-2010, 07:50 AM
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Well hopefully the Colormunki is all it's cracked up to be. I bought one from Amazon. I didn't want to risk waiting, since the price of the Colormunki Photo just shot up on Amazon by over $20, and I think the list retail price might have changed too ($449 to $499). The Colormunki Design is the one I wanted (for the additional Pantone matching software) and I grabbed one to preempt any price rise that might be coming for the Design (still listed at $449 retail...).

BTW Calman also ended it's promotion on the ColorMunki.

-Jim
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post #112 of 252 Old 02-05-2010, 07:57 AM
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Yeah, I'm about to take the plunge as well. Can you explain the benefit of the Design over the Photo model? What does the Pantone software offer?

As for ControlCal's offer, if you click through the ControlCal forums offer page (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/anno....php?f=12&a=11) it still rings up as $599. Of course you can buy from Amazon, get the $50 rebate, and just buy CalMan for Spectros for $179 and save $100 total, though this won't include ControlCal. BTW, how much is ControlCal if I don't need the serial cable? It's hard to figure.
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post #113 of 252 Old 02-05-2010, 08:17 AM
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how much is ControlCal if I don't need the serial cable?

I'd check with Turbe before placing an order that might have a price change.

Pricing is simple.
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post #114 of 252 Old 02-05-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I'd check with Turbe before placing an order that might have a price change.

Pricing is simple.

Good advice.

And AH! The forum pages only led me to the price of the cable bundle. Thanks, Bo.
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post #115 of 252 Old 02-05-2010, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heckheck View Post

BTW Calman also ended it's promotion on the ColorMunki.

The promo is indeed over. Unfortunately not everyone is very vigilent at updating prices. (They also still list the DPG-1200 sale price that ended on December 31, 2009).

Kal
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post #116 of 252 Old 02-05-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by noahabel View Post

Yeah, I'm about to take the plunge as well. Can you explain the benefit of the Design over the Photo model? What does the Pantone software offer?

The benefit of Design over Photo is purely in the type of software that Xrite provides for use with the device (it is unrelated to use with CalMAN, either is equivalent for that). The major differences more or less are as follows:

Photo has some sort of digital "envelope" software that allows you to mail an image with settings attached, supposedly useful for photographers to share work with customers. It has no seat limitation, so the software can be used on as many computers as you like to install it on (that's a plus over design). Other than that it's pretty much just monitor and printer calibration.

Design has a seat restriction (no more than three computers at a time for the Xrite software, deregistration necessary to move software). The big plus is that the software bundle includes not only the monitor and printer calibration software, but also a color matching program that contains the color data for a bunch of standard Pantone ink books. The software will allow you to use a spot measurement with the ColorMunki to find the closest Pantone color. It then allows you to make palates of colors that can be exported to other programs (like Adobe stuff).

Since I'm big into doing pinball restoration, color matching is something near and dear to my heart. I often need to match paints or inks for touchups or reproduction parts. It would be handy to have the ability to match to a known standard such as Pantone so I can have the paint store (or part manufacturer) make paint in the color I want without dragging the piece (like a pinball cabinet) down to the paint store. At least that's the theory. For the $30 difference I thought I'd try the more functional software bundle.

-Jim
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post #117 of 252 Old 02-05-2010, 03:16 PM
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Alright, made the decision, ordered the ColorMunki Photo. Looking forward to playing around with it and CalMan.
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post #118 of 252 Old 02-06-2010, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heckheck View Post

Design has a seat restriction (no more than three computers at a time for the Xrite software, deregistration necessary to move software). The big plus is that the software bundle includes not only the monitor and printer calibration software, but also a color matching program that contains the color data for a bunch of standard Pantone ink books. The software will allow you to use a spot measurement with the ColorMunki to find the closest Pantone color. It then allows you to make palates of colors that can be exported to other programs (like Adobe stuff).

It seems to me that the ColorMunki Photo alows the same (ColorPicker utility).
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post #119 of 252 Old 02-09-2010, 02:31 AM
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Quick question:

Does the ColorMunki's bundled software have an option for single color measurements that show me xyY (or equivalent convertible) data so I can manually input the numbers into a dE calculator?

Thanks,
Joel
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post #120 of 252 Old 02-09-2010, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j5627429 View Post

Quick question:

Does the ColorMunki's bundled software have an option for single color measurements that show me xyY (or equivalent convertible) data so I can manually input the numbers into a dE calculator?

Thanks,
Joel

No, it's impossible with the bundled software.
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